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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,030 posts in this topic

AbsoluteCarnage

AbsoluteCarnage

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 4:25 PM, mephistopheles said:

The blue label indicates that the MVS is intact... at least it used to. I wouldn't buy a 181 graded before CGC fixes their processes.

Yeah exactly. Same here. Guess adding it at this point would make the other blue labels look like they don't have it so probably not a good option at any rate. Free resubs on any questionable books that ppl were worried about hopefully with some form of compensation if something was not as it should be would be a start. We'll see what transpires though.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 4:36 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:
On 12/23/2023 at 4:25 PM, mephistopheles said:

The blue label indicates that the MVS is intact... at least it used to. I wouldn't buy a 181 graded before CGC fixes their processes.

Yeah exactly. Same here.

I'm wondering if a disclaimer by sellers moving forward is going to be valuable or if there will be some way to prove it. I think I've only ever reholdered maybe 10 or 15 books in 20 years. 

I don't want my subs lumped in with this debacle because almost all of my subs have been straight subs for grading.

Edited by VintageComics
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mephistopheles

mephistopheles

Posted
Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 5:58 PM, VintageComics said:

I don't want my subs lumped in with this debacle because almost all of my subs have been straight subs for regrading. I'm wondering if a disclaimer by sellers moving forward is going to be valuable or if there will be some way to prove it. I think I've only ever reholdered maybe 10 or 15 books in 20 years. 

I don't want my subs lumped in with this debacle.

I don't blame you. Maybe cgc can add a notation on the cert# to say if/when a book was reholdered. Then again, that would unfairly cast a shadow over legit reholdered books. 

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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Posted
On 12/23/2023 at 3:39 PM, paqart said:

I sent in almost all the comics raw, as you suggested. The 28 or so that I bought as slabs are either comics without coupons (like modern DCs) or aren't valuable enough to be interesting to our bad guy. I don't like to spend more than $200 for a comic, and when I do, don't go much above that. The only comics I own that are high value and are within (barely) the targeted price range are modern newsstands that I bought cheap and had slabbed myself.

I again agree with you.  My two slabbed Hulk 181's are a 9.0 and a 7.5.  The 9.0 was submitted by myself and pressed by Joe.  The other one is a 7.5 that I bought when I 7.5 was worth less than $500.   I doubt this guy's target was a 9.4 ASM 92 that I picked up last month from Comiclink for a few hundred. 

 

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Lightning55

Lightning55

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On 12/23/2023 at 7:41 AM, sledgehammer said:

This what I've been saying all along. I want to hear from CGC, not Roy, that policy has been to open every single inner well, on every reholder.

Now if CGC says that on every reholder, they spot check the grade and open the inner well, etc, etc, I'll assume, barring laziness, that's what they do.

I don't think that CGC ever stated that they open inner wells to reholder. Someone posted the blurb from the website earlier, maybe twice. It only talks about the grade not changing if there is no obvious reason for it to change. Nothing about the process.

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drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/23/2023 at 5:25 PM, Lightning55 said:

I don't think that CGC ever stated that they open inner wells to reholder. Someone posted the blurb from the website earlier, maybe twice. It only talks about the grade not changing if there is no obvious reason for it to change. Nothing about the process.

Yes, it specifically says comics will only be regraded if damage it obvious.  We also know that the other criteria is that the inner well can not be removable from the outer case, or it will be subject to regrade. This makes me fairly confident what is happening here.  I personally think the comic in the inner well is being transferred, as the bigger well seems to be easier to manipulate without completely destroying the case. There is just more play to work with. I think whatever method is being used to open then case is causing damage to the outer case. Thus, the initial need to send the books back to CGC.  Even he he has found a perfect way to open them, this also insures he gets an authentic label, and has the chance to request changes to the label. This brings us to section two, that the comic can not be easily removed from the case, or it may be regraded.  Given the QC issues often discussed, how well is this being assessed? People have talked about needing sonic welders or a outright flaw in the anti tampering properties of the case.  I do no think this is needed.  All he needs to do is get that comic to not easily slide out.  So all he needs is glue or adhesive that keeps the inner well in the outer case and is not obvious.  This may be easy to miss since the case is being sent in as broken anyway. Seems a few drops on a broken corner would more then do this job, and covered up by the damage to the plastic. Then it will pass the second criteria. 

 

This makes all of this a clever, but actually relatively low skill way to manipulate the system, once the reholder loophole was found. 

Edited by drotto
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Lightning55

Lightning55

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On 12/23/2023 at 2:12 PM, mrd160 said:

I don’t know if anyone else has said this, but my guess is he swapping out the labels not the actual inner well. It just seems a lot easier to pull out a thin piece of paper at the top of the slab than an entire inner well and then he sends the book in for reholder

 

On 12/23/2023 at 2:20 PM, ThothAmon said:

Can’t see this. Remember hes had to tamper with the original 9.8 to remove the inner sleeve/well/original comic. Fraud comic in its original inner sleeve/well/original comic then slid in. Label switch would be riskier and unnecessary. 

We've all "concluded" that he removed the original 9.8. But if he was able to cleanly remove the label only from the original legit 9.8, and substitute it for the scam comic's label in that slab, he would now have the legit label with the scam comic. Same as swapping the inner wells. The labels are right at the top, easier to get to. The plastic outer holders are probably identical, so impossible to say which inner parts went where.

Maybe all 3 parts have to have the cert# lasered on. Like cars have VINs in several key places, some locations known only to the manufacturer and law enforcement.

And reholders get all new numbers, with a reference on the registry page to the retired number, for a paper trail. 

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