• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
50 50

Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

Ron C.

Ron C.

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 10:36 AM, skybolt said:

Honestly, I think this is the likely main reason CGC has not come out with a statement. They're trying to see how much this board can uncover first.

My gut tells me their response will note negligence on the part of their re-holdering department. They'll note that staff should've checked the books more carefully if the slab came in with major damages that impacted the corners. The staff is going through proper training now to ensure this does not occur in the future. Any customers with books in question should send back to CGC for further evaluation. They will also ensure these were isolated cases and not rampant. Any issues with cert #'s or dates graded will be downplayed as system errors.

CGC is also closed until Tuesday. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
skybolt

skybolt

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 9:50 AM, comicwiz said:

My only follow-up to the last point is I think we need to keep an open mind that this seller may be using a full menu of options to carry out the deception, so while a "reholdering scam" is what it's being currently called, I feel like we are going to find situations where we can't exclude the possibility of tampering. my2cents

Unfortunately, if this started in 2021, this is when CGC was desperate for new employees to keep up with the demand. Perhaps someone with data entry experience was hired, but had a shady background in software hacking. This is all conjecture at this point of course.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
drotto

drotto

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 9:47 AM, comicwiz said:

The cert conventions used by CGC are above my pay grade, although I feel like we might be able to learn a thing or two by examining patterns. Good call, as I just noticed that myself. 

Cert numbers can be thrown off a bit by conventions. The forms filled out online are sequential by when they are generated.  At conventions, CGC will still use hand filled out pre-printed submission forms.  Not sure how those forms numbers fall in line with the numbers generated online.  You also have to remember when people submit books for a press, the pressors will have clients generate the submission forms under their accounts, and it may be weeks or even moths before these forms hit CGC.  The numbers will still always go up, but the exact sequence will be interrupted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted

Some people really need to watch about the first 30 minutes of this. As at, 1-1/2 hours, I'm sure there's been a ton of comments without watching it.

This was just a great job by these guys, and was the result of a specialty collector of MJ inserts, catching this.

At about the 22 minute mark, 9.9 says that CGC "would absolutely" not look at the inside of an inner well, if somebody that has done a ton of business for them asked them to put the note on for them about an MJ insert.

@WestcoastDAVEngers

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jcjames

jcjames

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 8:36 AM, skybolt said:

Honestly, I think this is the likely main reason CGC has not come out with a statement. They're trying to see how much this board can uncover first.

My gut tells me their response will note negligence on the part of their re-holdering department. They'll note that staff should've checked the books more carefully if the slab came in with major damages that impacted the corners. The staff is going through proper training now to ensure this does not occur in the future. Any customers with books in question should send back to CGC for further evaluation. They will also ensure these were isolated cases and not rampant. Any issues with cert #'s or dates graded will be downplayed as system errors.

Well that would do it for me! 100% confidence restored. Just like when they hired that QC Supervisor. 

meh

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 7:45 AM, sledgehammer said:

This sale was of the cert when it was a 9.8, and not an MJ and I think you're saying that.

This sale though as a newstand is on gpa on 12/15/22, after the grade date.

GPA does not call out one 9.8 asm 194 MJ sale, ever.

See my follow up to that post here. 

This is a double-swap situation here. 

There is no 9.8 mark jewelers sale recorded for the 194, because it hasn't happened yet. 

The seller first sold himself his own 9.8 newsstand, which may or may not be an MJ, for $4995 in Dec/2022

in that ebay ad, we see the original 4152956002 9.8 Newsstand.

The problem with that ad is that images used had to have been old, because by that time, CGC had already reholdered 4152956002 using the book that ended up later inside the book resubmitted 1/24/2023 resulting in the 9.2  4134002001, which was subsequently sold in July of 2023, and potentially by a seller with no affiliation to the perp. 

The images we have of the donor book are POST scam, not pre-scam.

The perp still possesses the pristine book that used to be inside 4152956002, and he still has that cert # holder/label that's marked as a 9.8 MJ

AND he's sold off the donor book that we see pictured in the CGC census for 4152956002, now resubbed and given the 4134002001 cert.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
sledgehammer

sledgehammer

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 10:25 AM, agamoto said:

See my follow up to that post here. 

This is a double-swap situation here. 

There is no 9.8 mark jewelers sale recorded for the 194, because it hasn't happened yet. 

 

Yep. You'll see I just noted that in the video, he says he kept his 194 and 238.

I get it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
grendel013

grendel013

Posted
Posted

Wow! This is what page 108 looks like. :bigsmile:

Anyways, I brought this up early but I'm still of the mindset that the fraudster has access to CGC outer wells. Even if a case of these fell off a truck that could mean problems for the community. I just don't know enough about this sonic welding stuff but I would think that would be something a fraudster could duplicate if desired?

I know this thread took many turns with may clues but I want to know more about the security of CGC encapsulation supplies and how easily these can be "acquired".:banana:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Buzzetta

Buzzetta

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 11:44 AM, Bo1983 said:

It’s a sad day in comic collecting when greed and vanity has taken over the hobby!Heritage has a huge grail auction coming up I wonder how many will sell for far less now?

I have a feeling that Heritage will be fine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
agamoto

agamoto

Posted
Posted

This is beyond ridiculous at this point. CGC MUST call the FBI and they need to do it NOW. The guy is going to be closing accounts, hiding evidence and he's going to get away with all this unless investigators get some warrants and get access to deleted/hidden posts, etc. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
JC25427N

JC25427N

Posted
Posted
On 12/24/2023 at 9:07 AM, comicwiz said:

I know it was mentioned before in this thread (I think @Buzzetta posted about the feature being taken away, another nod to how fantastic feeBay has become to help enable deception and fraud) but if anyone knows a way to look-up any past account names or aliases briva3 has used, please post and tag me. Best to all for the holiday season!

There's a bit of a workaround that I mentioned back around page ~70 or so, you still can't look up past IDs, but if you want to verify whether an ID used to belong to someone else you can check their feedback page: https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/aureliaag (There's a symbol by their name that says that this person's ID has changed recently which somewhat helps)  and then replace the ID in that url with the ID you suspect might be a previous ID of that person https://www.ebay.com/fdbk/feedback_profile/zaneglor  If the feedbacks listed on both pages are the same, then it's the same person. 

Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas, don't forget to spend some time with your loved ones, this thread will still be here after the holidays don't worry :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
50 50
Go to topic listing