ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Dr. Balls]

On 12/27/2023 at 10:22 AM, grendel013 said:

I like to buy raw books and submit myself. I'll continue to do that. I rarely buy already graded but for those 9.8s that I purchased already slabbed, I feel safe as they are not targeted keys. I'm talking Mage 6, Justice Machine Annual 1, Magik 4 and Veronica 28. I really doubt someone messed with these. 

Someone else out there who likes this book! I've got a 9.8 sitting on my shelf just because I like the cover.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I would say the opposite might happen - if you print out your packing slips/order forms and show provenance that it's your copy that you submitted, that might help it on the resale. I mean, it will require a stranger to not think that you are one of the people that did the ol' switcheroo - but most scammers wouldn't bother with trying to fake provenance and just go for the quick sale to someone who isn't in the know.

For the nightmare scenario:

I'd suggest to everyone who has one of these books in the crosshairs of slab switchers print out their documentation. If CGC were to be sold to someone else and the database is compromised, you'll only have hard copy to prove your submission. And, again - I say that's the NIGHTMARE scenario and not likely to ever happen, but I've seen funny things happen when a large business goes down, and someone else picks up the pieces - especially if there's some major liability floating around. I don't expect this is the kind of thing to take down a major entity like CGC, but it doesn't help their company in the least.

Solid post.

[Stefan_W]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I would say the opposite might happen - if you print out your packing slips/order forms and show provenance that it's your copy that you submitted, that might help it on the resale. I mean, it will require a stranger to not think that you are one of the people that did the ol' switcheroo - but most scammers wouldn't bother with trying to fake provenance and just go for the quick sale to someone who isn't in the know.

For the nightmare scenario:

I'd suggest to everyone who has one of these books in the crosshairs of slab switchers print out their documentation. If CGC were to be sold to someone else and the database is compromised, you'll only have hard copy to prove your submission. And, again - I say that's the NIGHTMARE scenario and not likely to ever happen, but I've seen funny things happen when a large business goes down, and someone else picks up the pieces - especially if there's some major liability floating around. I don't expect this is the kind of thing to take down a major entity like CGC, but it doesn't help their company in the least.

I can see the messages from Ebay buyers: "I am taking a big risk on your Hulk 181 so I think an offer of about 10-20% of the list price would be fair." 

The biggest risk to market value is jumpy sellers who are trying to dump and run. 

[namisgr]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:03 PM, Mdesimone said:

Why would anyone do that ?  if you paid 8000 dollars for a book that could be compromised  and have no way of getting a refund from the perpetrator , your better of leaving it as is. Cgc needs to pay FMV for all scammed books if the grades do not match.

I agree that a fully satisfactory response from CGC would be to offer compensation for the lost value of books that, upon re-grading, are found to be of considerably less value owing to a change in either the numerical grade, the book specifics, or both.  But it, too, starts with CGC agreeing to take back any comic submitted by the perpetrator and regrading it for nothing.

As to why anyone would resubmit a book that might be found out as being tainted, it would be for its sale value.  Just as Jason Ewert submissions instantly cratered in marketplace value, so too will any slab with a certification number tied to the fraudster.

Edited December 27, 2023 by namisgr

[agamoto]

Am I the only one getting 403 blocked when I try to make a post?

 

[William-James88]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:14 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

If someone uncovers a high value / high grade early SA key book that is indeed a Purple book in as blue label that's gonna set things off. 

Already happened, and CGC's business has only grown since

[pdags]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:03 PM, MyNameIsLegion said:

we're not the stakeholders, we are customers. 

Haha.  Keeping customers informed, specially on matters that notably affect them, is critical for a company like CGC.  They don't need to tell us every detail, but there is often inflection points where silence is  more damaging.

Imagine if CGC has, but doesn't share information while the market plummets for the books Briva3 and known to be scamming.   That's the type of stuff Lawyers like to make their names on.

 

[MAR1979]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:22 PM, Dr. Balls said:

I would say the opposite might happen - if you print out your packing slips/order forms and show provenance that it's your copy that you submitted, that might help it on the resale. I mean, it will require a stranger to not think that you are one of the people that did the ol' switcheroo - but most scammers wouldn't bother with trying to fake provenance and just go for the quick sale to someone who isn't in the know.

For the nightmare scenario:

I'd suggest to everyone who has one of these books in the crosshairs of slab switchers print out their documentation. If CGC were to be sold to someone else and the database is compromised, you'll only have hard copy to prove your submission. And, again - I say that's the NIGHTMARE scenario and not likely to ever happen, but I've seen funny things happen when a large business goes down, and someone else picks up the pieces - especially if there's some major liability floating around. I don't expect this is the kind of thing to take down a major entity like CGC, but it doesn't help their company in the least.

I do agree with the documentation aspect however from logic perspective faking the paperwork is a simple matter. Without being about verify details against a known Database not sure it really will prove anything. My ASM300 for example is a first gen slab paper submission from  2002 and never was in CGC's on-line database. 

But yep agree hold on to any paperwork it won't hurt!

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:25 PM, Stefan_W said:

I can see the messages from Ebay buyers: "I am taking a big risk on your Hulk 181 so I think an offer of about 10-20% of the list price would be fair." 

The biggest risk to market value is jumpy sellers who are trying to dump and run. 

Maybe something adding dates of submission and MV stamp in place noted on label. Dates as like they do on SS books for books that involve MVS. And offering free resubs to do these. Just a thought. I know I mentioned this 100 pages ago and someone told me that the blue labels are supposed to recognize that the stamp is there which I already knew but......... at this point. Might be a fix for that particular book.

Edited December 27, 2023 by AbsoluteCarnage

[grendel013]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:24 PM, Dr. Balls said:

Someone else out there who likes this book! I've got a 9.8 sitting on my shelf just because I like the cover.

One of my earliest tattoos too! Although I told the artist to give Illyanna blue hair. 

[Heronext]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:28 AM, Mikey C said:

Any modern book with a stupid 9.8 premium is suspect to me as a target for anyone with the knowledge how to cleanly crack a case. 

Stay away from sellers you don't know.  Ask if they slabbed the book submitted the book to CGC for slabbing themselves.  With a little patience and due diligence, you can avoid being a victim.

Edited December 27, 2023 by Heronext

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:24 AM, William-James88 said:

This has literally been an issue with slabbed books since the beginning. If the uncertainty of your pin ups not being there didn't stop you from buying a slabbed book before, I don't see why it would stop you now.

It's not something I used to worry about. I thought CGC was at least basically competent and secure.

[BlackOut21]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:08 PM, Steven Valdez said:

So.... who's planning on submitting their books for grading or buying any slabbed books in 2024?

All I know is I spent over $30k in 2023 on books from @mycomicshop.  After watching that slab opening video mcs should expect their revenue to decrease by that amount in 2024.  Until there is more information mcs please reach out to cgc on the declined revenue.

[MyNameIsLegion]

On 12/27/2023 at 11:30 AM, Heronext said:

Stay away from sellers you don't know.  Ask if they slabbed the book themselves.  With a little patience and due diligence you can  avoid being a victim.

wait, isn't slabbing it yourself the problem? 

[Point Five]

With all that said, it may be safest to switch to buying CGC .5 slabs for the time being. No chance that a lower grade copy has been substituted!

Don't let my screen name throw you, this is a really good idea.

 

[agamoto]

Now would be a good time for an enterprising sir or madam to put together a simple restoration checker kit and guide and get her up on Amazon to facilitate the expectation of increased trade in raw books. 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:34 PM, Point Five said:

With all that said, it may be safest to switch to buying CGC .5 slabs for the time being. No chance that a lower grade copy has been substituted!

Don't let my screen name throw you, this is a really good idea.

 

Can't go much lower ;-)

[AbsoluteCarnage]

There's always the NG though.

[agamoto]

On 12/27/2023 at 9:34 AM, Point Five said:

With all that said, it may be safest to switch to buying CGC .5 slabs for the time being. No chance that a lower grade copy has been substituted!

Don't let my screen name throw you, this is a really good idea.

 

I agree... Especially the early silver age ones w/o back covers that you can marry to the backs of two gun kids and gunsmoke westerns for the 2.0 blue detached/split cover scam craze... New for 2024!

[Steven Valdez]

From now on, I'll only be buying single pages in slabs. At least you can see both sides.