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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

Iconic1s

Iconic1s

Posted
Posted

This is 100% on CGC and they know it!

Someone mentioned that all CGC received was the grading fee and not the premium paid for books they had “graded.”  Maybe so, but there is a problem with that… if they truly sat back and were impartially grading our books, and then letting us do what we/the market does with them that may be okay.  But, big BUT, hardly a day goes by where they are not also meddling in the market; whether it’s through promotions, linking up with auction houses, bragging about how one of the books they graded set a new record, or literally giving away books they graded (the list goes on!), they are knee deep in market manipulation and driving demand/premium prices for their product… not just by having the best product mind you but testifying to their own greatness and proclaiming themselves as “most trusted”  lol .

CGC IS NOT THE VICTIM HERE!  It was their negligence that opened the window of opportunity for this scam for YEARS!  Their negligence caused this!  Theirs ONLY!  We deserved better, period!

Everybody that bought a scam book and paid that premium did so because they believed in CGC.  It was in a CGC holder with an assigned grade.  Sure, maybe it looked like a “gift grade” but man, if CGC gave it that grade, oh well it must be legit right (shrug) .  Meanwhile their product and processes have been so bad for who knows how long (they know know how long) that they, who proclaim themselves “most trusted” get one pulled over on them again and again and again for years by a guy whose grammar is terrible, while their customers blindly trust them and end up suffering the real hardship by buying these books because of the trust in the brand.

Funny, look through old press releases for the current holder and it was supposedly perfected over three years… yet a guy on youtube defeats it in about 5 minutes.  Let that sink in, that’s how much they really care about this.  They are in CYA mode now cause this is ALL on them.  Seems to me it’s time to put a business person in charge.

 

 

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skybolt

skybolt

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On 12/28/2023 at 11:34 AM, EastEnd1 said:

Has anyone had newly graded books shipped back to them in the last week or so?  I have a UV submission received 12/21 that doesn't seem to be moving.  Just wondering if they've put a hold on sending books back out for the time being. 

I just had a batch graded and shipped yesterday 

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pdags

pdags

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 9:09 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

They might just be thinking lawsuit, not a criminal prosecution, which could reveal unflattering things during a public trial.

This is why I directly asked if the FBI were involved.  

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comeaux

comeaux

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Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 8:23 PM, Iconic1s said:

This is 100% on CGC and they know it!

Someone mentioned that all CGC received was the grading fee and not the premium paid for books they had “graded.”  Maybe so, but there is a problem with that… if they truly sat back and were impartially grading our books, and then letting us do what we/the market does with them that may be okay.  But, big BUT, hardly a day goes by where they are not also meddling in the market; whether it’s through promotions, linking up with auction houses, bragging about how one of the books they graded set a new record, or literally giving away books they graded (the list goes on!), they are knee deep in market manipulation and driving demand/premium prices for their product… not just by having the best product mind you but testifying to their own greatness and proclaiming themselves as “most trusted”  lol .

CGC IS NOT THE VICTIM HERE!  It was their negligence that opened the window of opportunity for this scam for YEARS!  Their negligence caused this!  Theirs ONLY!  We deserved better, period!

Everybody that bought a scam book and paid that premium did so because they believed in CGC.  It was in a CGC holder with an assigned grade.  Sure, maybe it looked like a “gift grade” but man, if CGC gave it that grade, oh well it must be legit right (shrug) .  Meanwhile their product and processes have been so bad for who knows how long (they know know how long) that they, who proclaim themselves “most trusted” get one pulled over on them again and again and again for years by a guy whose grammar is terrible, while their customers blindly trust them and end up suffering the real hardship by buying these books because of the trust in the brand.

Funny, look through old press releases for the current holder and it was supposedly perfected over three years… yet a guy on youtube defeats it in about 5 minutes.  Let that sink in, that’s how much they really care about this.  They are in CYA mode now cause this is ALL on them.  Seems to me it’s time to put a business person in charge.

 

 

Not sure how long ago the new holder came out but I called it TurdSlab back then. lol

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brute_nm

brute_nm

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Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 7:16 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Are brevis3, aureliaag, and zaneglors all eBay names? Or are these names he's used elsewhere? 

On 12/28/2023 at 7:19 PM, agamoto said:

eBay, insta for sure, probably other social media sites... Brute_nm has pinpointed a few other usernames that are connected.

I'm keeping the summary on p. 72 updated with what we have so far.

Please let me know if I've missed anything.

Edited by brute_nm
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comeaux

comeaux

Posted
Posted
On 12/28/2023 at 8:23 PM, Iconic1s said:

This is 100% on CGC and they know it!

Someone mentioned that all CGC received was the grading fee and not the premium paid for books they had “graded.”  Maybe so, but there is a problem with that… if they truly sat back and were impartially grading our books, and then letting us do what we/the market does with them that may be okay.  But, big BUT, hardly a day goes by where they are not also meddling in the market; whether it’s through promotions, linking up with auction houses, bragging about how one of the books they graded set a new record, or literally giving away books they graded (the list goes on!), they are knee deep in market manipulation and driving demand/premium prices for their product… not just by having the best product mind you but testifying to their own greatness and proclaiming themselves as “most trusted”  lol .

CGC IS NOT THE VICTIM HERE!  It was their negligence that opened the window of opportunity for this scam for YEARS!  Their negligence caused this!  Theirs ONLY!  We deserved better, period!

Everybody that bought a scam book and paid that premium did so because they believed in CGC.  It was in a CGC holder with an assigned grade.  Sure, maybe it looked like a “gift grade” but man, if CGC gave it that grade, oh well it must be legit right (shrug) .  Meanwhile their product and processes have been so bad for who knows how long (they know know how long) that they, who proclaim themselves “most trusted” get one pulled over on them again and again and again for years by a guy whose grammar is terrible, while their customers blindly trust them and end up suffering the real hardship by buying these books because of the trust in the brand.

Funny, look through old press releases for the current holder and it was supposedly perfected over three years… yet a guy on youtube defeats it in about 5 minutes.  Let that sink in, that’s how much they really care about this.  They are in CYA mode now cause this is ALL on them.  Seems to me it’s time to put a business person in charge.

 

 

Great post, 100% accurate now release the CGC pom poms, they’ll be here shortly lol

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Tnexus

Tnexus

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Posted

It's very likely a civil case over a criminal one. CGC will go after this person for monetary damages for damaging their reputation. If the individual resubmitted these comics for a reholders, it's 100% on them to confirm it's still the same grade. The only reason CGC is refunding people is because they failed their guarantee and got caught. Criminal charges would mean they'd have to prove they swapped the comics which is doubtful CGC can. Authorities could maybe go after them if they replaced the comic and didn't resubmit for a reholder, but I still think it's unlikely.

In the end CGC will make money off this by selling a new super tamper proof case that will only cost you $50 a piece.

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Jesse-Lee

Jesse-Lee

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Posted (edited)

I sure hope my Plop! #1 in an 8.0 isn't involved in all this. It cost me $40!

Edited by Jesse-Lee
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Jesse-Lee

Jesse-Lee

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Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 8:31 PM, Nick Furious said:

 

Dylan-Schwartz.jpg

Interesting that his eBay auctions ship from only a couple of miles away of Kew Gardens and Forest Hills, NY.

(It should be noted that I am implying absolutely nothing at all in this post, only noting the interesting coincidence of the photo subject's proximity to the aforementioned areas in this thread.)

Edited by Jesse-Lee
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Buzzetta

Buzzetta

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Intermission at MSG.  Recommendation to the CGC team reading this.  If at MSG never pass up the David Chang Momofuku Korean Spicy Chicken Sandwich located in Section 119.

 

 

IMG_9358.jpeg

IMG_9357.jpeg

 

Edited by Buzzetta
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EastEnd1

EastEnd1

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Posted

I think everyone who bought from this scammer and got defrauded should file a case with the FBI.  If enough people do... if the claim repeats itself many times, involving victims all across the country... they'll take it up, regardless of what CGC does.  (And btw, I do believe CGC will report it to the appropriate authorities, if they haven't already...isn't that what "held accountable to the fullest extent of the law" means?(shrug) ).  Frankly, I think the FBI would enjoy all the free publicity they would get from taking down a scam involving some of the nations most popular film characters.

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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 8:28 PM, pdags said:
On 12/28/2023 at 8:09 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

They might just be thinking lawsuit, not a criminal prosecution, which could reveal unflattering things during a public trial.

This is why I directly asked if the FBI were involved.  

This is where I'm with that and the full extent of the law tagline, do they have recourse for prosecution?

As @Iconic1s said astutely, they let it out the door! The only scam or fraud in slight are the grading fees, which don't amount to as much than what cgc will pay in the reimbursement fraud.

They gave it the authentication in the reholder, so I'm thinking lawsuit, which wouldn't involve the FBI but I don't think prosecution  from cgc specifically.

Am I asserting that right? Cause this is where my last couple of pages of rambling were coming from  @MatterEaterLad @pdags slight edit for clarification lol

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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brute_nm

brute_nm

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 7:45 PM, Dbear67 said:

Amazing Spider-Man #252 Marvel Comics May 1984 CGC 9.8 Near Mint + White Pages! | eBay, this one looked fishy to me. It does not match the picture on CGC. 

Good find, it definitely has a couple spine ticks and looks like something at the top staple. Maybe something top of the spine but maybe glare.

Here are the other books from that submission... some usual suspects, some head-scratchers

  1. 4318979001 Sandman #1 9.6
  2. 4318979002 SW #8 9.8
  3. 4318979003 ASM #300 9.6
  4. 4318979004 ASM #252 9.8
  5. 4318979005 ASM #1 (1990) 9.8
  6. 4318979006 ASM #1 (1990) 9.4
  7. 4318979007 ASM #1 (1990) 9.8
  8. 4318979008 Spider-Man 2099 #1 9.8
  9. 4318979009 Spider-Man Skating on Thin Ice #1 7.5
Edited by brute_nm
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ADAMANTIUM

ADAMANTIUM

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 12/28/2023 at 8:57 PM, EastEnd1 said:

I think everyone who bought from this scammer and got defrauded should file a case with the FBI.  If enough people do... if the claim repeats itself many times, involving victims all across the country... they'll take it up, regardless of what CGC does.  (And btw, I do believe CGC will report it to the appropriate authorities, if they haven't already...isn't that what "held accountable to the fullest extent of the law" means?(shrug) ).  Frankly, I think the FBI would enjoy all the free publicity they would get from taking down a scam involving some of the nations most popular film characters.

And answered. Indeed it takes up several avenues of jurisdiction all falling under the FBI. I just wasn't positive if cgc could represent (not knowing legal venues myself nor even terminology) other than to say, ebay will probably pass, class action from a group of victims buyers will amass when cgc publishes list of affected slabs, and then you have cgc.

It only made sense that the cgc statement would be brief and to the point, as there is a scrap ton of things to consider, document properly, file, then present. This is more than a year out from ending. I just don't want to go 100 miles an hour for that long. I can only imagine the toll. Empathy or not, I'm grateful for what we have so far, a mere pittance to the added work needed for the future.

 

Edited by ADAMANTIUM
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