ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[Steven Valdez]

Remember, any tell-tale scuffs or scratches can be easily buffed out using Polywatch (see 1:52 on the video below).

 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/31/2023 at 5:43 PM, drotto said:

In the second video, where he opens the competion's clip design, he appeared to have much more trouble, and it seemed to require more skill. Now, I 100% think that with practice you could get these open almost perfectly also, but it looked harder. 

So no case is ever going to be perfect.  The best we can hope for is a desig that will break with any attempt to open. Then if the case is broken the rule must be the comic is now considered raw, period.

If the case halves were actually welded or melded together, it would make it impossible to open them without breakage. Up until a couple of weeks ago I assumed holders had to be broken to open them, and believed that's what CGC did when cracking a book for reholdering. I'm thinking now that the cases are deliberately made to be openable so they can be reused by CGC if in decent condition.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Steven Valdez

[Cat]

I read Reddit's reaction to this last night, and surprisingly for there, their take was quite nuanced and understanding. Not at all what you'd normally expect. Oh sure, there were the normal "death to us all", "this is why I don't grade" responses, but they were well and truly drowned out by rational reactions. 

CGCs statement was also the first many of them had heard of this, fwiw.

[Lightning55]

On 12/31/2023 at 1:53 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Remember, any tell-tale scuffs or scratches can be easily buffed out using Polywatch (see 1:52 on the video below).

 

Definitely could smooth out surface scratches.

We're supposed to be able to see visible deformities or fractures where the seams are reattached. Like light retracting in an odd way, similar to the pieces of glass in a broken mirror. 

A new case should look smooth and even as your eyes follow the line of the seams, close to perfect. A compromised case should have visual interruptions that give it away.

I have only cracked a half dozen cases, by force. They could in no way be rejoined to look new. But that is a woefully poor exemplar. Maybe someone with more CPR experience could shed some light on this.

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:35 PM, Lightning55 said:

Definitely could smooth out surface scratches.

We're supposed to be able to see visible deformities or fractures where the seams are reattached. Like light retracting in an odd way, similar to the pieces of glass in a broken mirror. 

A new case should look smooth and even as your eyes follow the line of the seams, close to perfect. A compromised case should have visual interruptions that give it away.

I have only cracked a half dozen cases, by force. They could in no way be rejoined to look new. But that is a woefully poor exemplar. Maybe someone with more CPR experience could shed some light on this.

I'm not game to try opening any of mine... at least not yet. Would you be prepared to try the heat gun / blowdryer on one of yours?

[Lightning55]

On 12/31/2023 at 1:25 AM, Iconic1s said:

I wonder if there is a way to infuse the case with something that, if exposed to extreme heat (such as from a heat gun) or certain chemicals, that the plastic would permanently discolor?

That is a Catch 22 type of thing. If it reacts to heat, it will react when being welded, right from the getgo.

Or trigger if exposed to hot temps, so indicating a false positive for tampering.

But maybe a side benefit of telling you that the comic was exposed to excessive heat.

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:06 AM, Buzzetta said:

Has anyone had the chance to tag board mainstay @Calamerica and have him weigh in on this?

 is he still around? I think if you put up 3 pictures of Ironman / Sub Mariner 1 he will appear. Kinda like Beetle Juice

[Lightning55]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:40 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I'm not game to try opening any of mine... at least not yet. Would you be prepared to try the heat gun / blowdryer on one of yours?

If I was curious enough, I would. I have some slabs worth less than grading costs. But I'm sure if we give it a beat, someone will try it for us and report the results. 

[Steven Valdez]

What I have noticed is that comments on YouTube tend to be far more negative about the future of CGC. The comments here are overwhelmingly more optimistic and cheerful.

Or so it seems

Edited December 31, 2023 by Steven Valdez

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:45 PM, Lightning55 said:

If I was curious enough, I would. I have some slabs worth less than grading costs. But I'm sure if we give it a beat, someone will try it for us and report the results. 

If I had something of low value on hand I would love to experiment on it... hopefully someone else does and will give it a crack (so to speak, no pun intended etc etc).

[AbsoluteCarnage]

@Calamerica is good stuff tho. Hope he's doing good. Gonna give him 3 pics tho.......  

 

 

 

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:51 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

@Calamerica is good stuff tho. Hope he's doing good. Gonna give him 3 pics tho.......  

 

 

 

I remember when that was a $1.50 book all day long for years... no one wanted it because it was an odd one out

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:53 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I remember when that was a $1.50 book all day long for years... no one wanted it because it was an odd one out

 he has like 1000 of them

[AbsoluteCarnage]

Probably not that much but alot

 

[Lightning55]

On 12/31/2023 at 12:51 AM, William-James88 said:

It's not talked about as much but another thing that was exploited was CGC's own awareness of their incompetence. 

If they didn't make the ton of errors they routinely do on slabs, like not labeling a Mark Jeweler variant, then a request for a reholder due to a gaff on their part would have been scrutinized more. 

I know you are just using it as an example, but it is likely CGC did not miss the MJ variant, because it originally was not an MJ variant. The case, and a swapped in lower grade MJ variant were sent in for "correction". At least so it seems for the book in the thread title.

CGC has had their share of errors and QC issues, so not meaning to excuse them at all, especially in this mess.

[Steven Valdez]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:54 PM, AbsoluteCarnage said:

 he has like 1000 of them

Ha, oh really?? It was always common as.

[Steven Valdez]

I still don't get what the sonic welder is supposed to do if it's not actually welding the two halves together!

[Lightning55]

On 12/30/2023 at 10:17 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

The tan cat is so fast I can't even see his paw moving.

Much like every cat that scratched me as a kid. Faster than the eye could follow. 

[Lightning55]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:58 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I still don't get what the sonic welder is supposed to do if it's not actually welding the two halves together!

My understanding of it is that it works in a very targeted manner. This allows a weld (plastic surfaces melting together) without heating up the entire frame. It's joined on a molecular level at these surfaces, but it still is not as if it was a single piece of plastic in a mold.

And it isn't applied around the entire perimeter of the frame. So it has vulnerability, but you are supposed to see the seam fracture if separation is attempted. 

[AbsoluteCarnage]

On 12/31/2023 at 2:55 AM, Steven Valdez said:

Ha, oh really?? It was always common as.

Good money for those books regardless. I was joking about the 1000 unless he does have that many  He had more than everyone else. Let's just say that