ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[agamoto]

What I don't see in any of the stories about Mr. Albright... Criminal prosecution for committing fraud. I wonder why that is.

[Matt1982]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:35 PM, agamoto said:

What I don't see in any of the stories about Mr. Albright... Criminal prosecution for committing fraud. I wonder why that is.

There's no way to know. It's possible the case against him wasn't strong, or that someone decided not to pursue it. It's also possible that it was 20 years ago and everything was in its infancy in terms of online auctions and selling. Either way, it sounds like CGC is pursuing it, and based on the seriousness I would expect that the FBI will take it seriously. Whoever CGC has hired to conduct the investigation is likely a large NYC law firm, and they're probably using a former federal prosecutor to lead their internal investigation. I come to this conclusion based on my experience with Blackstone and its propensity to use huge, expensive NYC law firms.

[BrashL]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:05 PM, agamoto said:

I found a similar parallel to his case involving NGC and apparent case swapping. 

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/11312/coin-tampering-case/

This is really interesting. So this guy didn’t do any reholdering, he was selling the switched coins to people directly. So right there it’s different than what we’ve seen so far. All the more reason we need a full account of the current scammer’s activity and not just re-slabs. 

[MatterEaterLad]

On 1/4/2024 at 10:14 AM, LordRahl said:

Do you care about some random stranger more than you do about yourself? If you could do something that is detrimental to you but beneficial for said random stranger, would you? 

I don't know what kind of fairy tale world you all live in but posts like this continue to amaze me. Unrealistic is putting it mildly.

Totally. So unrealistic CGC's sister company NCG named Richard Albright as the fraudster in a similar scam regarding coins. But you're right, totally unrealistic. 

 

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 1/4/2024 at 9:12 AM, sledgehammer said:

Here is the AF 15, as it is now.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/1589872002/

On 1/4/2024 at 9:43 AM, GDN said:

Maybe the AF15 is for his personal collection and he wanted a new label??  Maybe that AF15 is not a scam book?  A little present to himself purchased with some of his scamming profits. 

On 1/4/2024 at 9:48 AM, jokersup said:

Found a good picture

so a question that has been in the back of my mind.

Does anyone have pictures of the $2000 AF #15 that was auctioned off by the Nassau County PD in the forfeiture of Wall of Fames "authentic " portion of inventory seized during the "Carlos Seneca" aka Danny Dupcak in 1998 ?

How crazy would it be to think this might have actual ties to that case? 

[agamoto]

On 1/4/2024 at 11:45 AM, Matt1982 said:

There's no way to know. It's possible the case against him wasn't strong, or that someone decided not to pursue it. It's also possible that it was 20 years ago and everything was in its infancy in terms of online auctions and selling. Either way, it sounds like CGC is pursuing it, and based on the seriousness I would expect that the FBI will take it seriously. Whoever CGC has hired to conduct the investigation is likely a large NYC law firm, and they're probably using a former federal prosecutor to lead their internal investigation. I come to this conclusion based on my experience with Blackstone and its propensity to use huge, expensive NYC law firms.

With all due respect, you make a lot of assumptions without supporting evidence. If they said, “yeah the fbi is on it, and if you got defrauded, file a complaint with them and no matter what, we got you, comic fam!” Then I would side with your line of reasoning. 
 

what I’ve presented is evidence They do their own investigation and then sue for a restraining order and injunction. That doesn’t mean the perp spends a single day in jail or can’t try the same thing again later under different names and accounts 
 

the Albright injunction isnt from 20 years ago, it’s from 2023.

 

 

[LordRahl]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:01 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Totally. So unrealistic CGC's sister company NCG named Richard Albright as the fraudster in a similar scam regarding coins. But you're right, totally unrealistic. 

 

I know you're not actually this dense. They named him AFTER they won a court case, which would have then been public record anyway. You are asking them to name the guy NOW, which is looooong before any sort of court case has even started, let alone concluded with a decision in CGC's favor. Totally the same thing, right?

[MatterEaterLad]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:07 PM, LordRahl said:

I know you're not actually this dense. They named him AFTER they won a court case, which would have then been public record anyway. You are asking them to name the guy NOW, which is looooong before any sort of court case has even started, let alone concluded with a decision in CGC's favor. Totally the same thing, right?

This isn't the only legal entanglement CGC/NCG/Heritage/WATA/Halperin etc have been involved with. In those scandals, people were named long before a court decision. 

Edited January 4 by MatterEaterLad

[LordRahl]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:13 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

Some advice. Think, and perhaps read, before you open your mouth. Seriously, do us all a favor.

This isn't the only legal entanglement CGC/NCG/Heritage/WATA/Halperin etc have been involved with. In those scandals, people were named long before a court decision. 

[agamoto]

Absolutely no one should be named until the matter is fully investigated and indictments filed. We have no idea who may actually be behind the curtain and it’s possible CGC doesn’t know for sure either. It could all be stolen identities in play, and announcing to the world who the perp they think it might be without sufficient proof and conviction on record is a recipe to have your bum handed to you in a defamation suit.

 

problem here is that in the parallel coin case, it doesn’t appear as if the named individual suffered any criminal consequences at all… free to screw people over down the road.

Edited January 4 by agamoto

[agamoto]

thought I’d head over to the NGC forums to read up on the Albright fellow. Saw this post. Audibly guffawed at the relevance.

FYI, in my WorthPoint mining, I did find many ads for coins in the mid 2010s that contained much of the same verbiage as our perp selling comics, for what that’s worth. I should go back again and see if the backgrounds match with the comic listings.

[ADAMANTIUM]

If this guy was sending in so much for reholder, then why wouldn't cgc notice that?

[MatterEaterLad]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:16 PM, agamoto said:

Absolutely no one should be named until the matter is fully investigated and indictments filed. We have no idea who may actually be behind the curtain and it’s possible CGC doesn’t know for sure either. It could all be stolen identities in play, and announcing to the world who the perp they think it might be without sufficient proof and conviction on record is a recipe to have your bum handed to you in a defamation suit.

 

problem here is that in the parallel coin case, it doesn’t appear as if the named individual suffered any criminal consequences at all… free to screw people over down the road.

My wife's first husband was killed when he was hit by a semi. The news articles reported the trucking company, because they were at fault, though negligence was disputed. The driver was named. There was another man in town with the same name as the driver. The attorneys were careful not to confuse the two men when they were doing background checks and looking at previous criminal records and driving and employment records. People knew who the driver was for almost five years before a settlement was reached. 

Unless there's a compelling reason for a judge to redact everything, people get named ALL the time. 

 

[wombat]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If this guy was sending in so much for reholder, then why wouldn't cgc notice that?

Perhaps its not something they track. Or look at. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 1/4/2024 at 2:35 PM, wombat said:

On 1/4/2024 at 2:31 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If this guy was sending in so much for reholder, then why wouldn't cgc notice that?

Perhaps its not something they track. Or look at. 

I hear you, and idk if there is any real answer. Just looking at the time period it was  hundreds of books, with small notations, and....

They were mostly reholder? with no actual "real straight submissions?" I mean where did cgc think that he was getting these books for reholder "from?'

Unless he also had regular submissions? 

Idk if there is any "real answer that isn't speculation" but those are hundreds of comics for small notations.... idk 

[wiparker824]

interesting that they crossed off one of the big Spidey yellow label books but the other remains.

[wombat]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:39 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

I hear you, and idk if there is any real answer. Just looking at the time period it was  hundreds of books, with small notations, and....

They were mostly reholder? with no actual "real straight submissions?" I mean where did cgc think that he was getting these books for reholder "from?'

Unless he also had regular submissions? 

Idk if there is any "real answer that isn't speculation" but those are hundreds of comics for small notations.... idk 

Was he resubmitting all the higher grade books he swapped out to get new holders? Or was he buying all those directly?

But if they didn't have a process in place to flag anything like this they may have had no way of noticing. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

And if they weren't before, CGC should and hopefully could review now for others, and get out ahead of it

 

[wombat]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:44 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

And if they weren't before, CGC should and hopefully could review now for others, and get out ahead of it

 

It would make sense. But that doesn't mean a whole lot. 

[agamoto]

On 1/4/2024 at 12:34 PM, MatterEaterLad said:

My wife's first husband was killed when he was hit by a semi. The news articles reported the trucking company, because they were at fault, though negligence was disputed. The driver was named. There was another man in town with the same name as the driver. The attorneys were careful not to confuse the two men when they were doing background checks and looking at previous criminal records and driving and employment records. People knew who the driver was for almost five years before a settlement was reached. 

Unless there's a compelling reason for a judge to redact everything, people get named ALL the time. 

 

Seems like quite a different situation to me. There can be no dispute about who the driver was, the work done to not confuse similarly named people in their investigation seems perfectly normal. In this instance, the name of the person(s) involved can be masked, forged, stolen as their crimes are faceless.