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ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC
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Started by spidermanbeyond,

9,029 posts in this topic

NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 3:58 PM, BrashL said:

Can you just ask all your clever questions at once? This is already boring. 

Well I didnt want to assume but I assumed you would devalue your own books by around 50% right?

That's the vibe I am getting from some of your posts and couple others that these books are heading down towards being even more worthless daily right?

So would 50% now and by next week what maybe 75% then to 0%? (shrug)

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

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Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 4:02 PM, HighGrade said:

NO. OK, I'm OLD and seen it all, this will not hurt my value, it will in short time raise the value, and make the hobby stronger. But I don't collect speculation books, I don't collect variations or HOT books, I have flipped them, but I still think many books are over priced and now the fall will be blamed on this scam.

Also I buy books that look like or better than "in my opinion" the giant number on top, honestly that can be a distraction I even buy 9.4 or 9.6 books that look better than the 9.6 or 9.8 copy. Better centering, color, perfect wrap, bright whites etc. I don't understand buying a 9.8 with a miswrap, or yellowing, or a dull book when a far superior book in a lower "technical grade" looks 100 times better.  grading before CGC was more of an art, eye appeal to me is #1 but I'm a collector first, investor second, some of those 9.8's I wouldn't have touched after seeing the scans.

A mile high in a 8.0 can many times rival the higher grades by a mile, but I'm going off topic..LOL

So I'm not concerned about the holder or value of what I own, or looking to buy.

Spoiler

That post wasnt meant for you.  It was a baiting question for people who have been very silly and hyperbolic about the state of hobby. :cheers:

 

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pdags

pdags

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 7:02 PM, HighGrade said:

Better centering, color, perfect wrap, bright whites etc. I don't understand buying a 9.8 with a miswrap, or yellowing, or a dull book when a far superior book in a lower "technical grade" looks 100 times better.

(thumbsu You and I are a lot a like.  One of my favorite delights is finding a cheaper, lower grade book that is, IMHO, better (for me) because it fits more in line with what I like to collect.  I can't stand asymmetrical or miswrapped covers... but can handle other issues, specially if the color pops.

Edited by pdags
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HighGrade

HighGrade

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 7:12 PM, pdags said:

(thumbsu You and I are a lot a like.  One of my favorite delights is finding a cheaper, lower grade book that is, IMHO, better (for me) because it fits more in line with what I like to collect.  I can't stand off centered, miswraps... but can handle other issues, specially if the color pops.

Oh yeah color pop! But I actually go over the current value many times just get the best book and really I think this is mistake people make blindly trusting last sales on GPA, you might see a grossly low price on GPA for a book only to find out it looked poor, or find a grossly over priced book and see it's got superior eye appeal. But I guess many just look at last sales, not the books anymore.

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 7:19 PM, Silver Surfer said:

Given the amount of submissions the list seems to be a bit light, they should all be suspect IMO. I guess once the list of 350 books has been vetted they can sweep this under the rug and we will never know if there was any “inside” work being done. 

With the list now posted, I doubt we’ll be seeing else from CGC about this.

 

Unless any of the books discovered in this thread aren’t on the list.

Edited by THE_BEYONDER
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comeaux

comeaux

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Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 5:46 PM, BrashL said:

Ok I’m curious so I’ll bite. Yes my slabs are now worth less. Now what happens?

Careful, you’ll upset the natives 

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BlancoBros

BlancoBros

Posted
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On 1/4/2024 at 6:39 PM, darkstar said:

But what if he was able to swap books at home and wasn't entirely relying on CGC to do it via reholders or custom labels? 

From what's been posted, it seems that the scam revolved around reholders/custom labels only. No evidence suggesting otherwise. (so far)

On 1/4/2024 at 6:39 PM, darkstar said:

He might have submitted a legit 9.8 raw, swapped the 9.8 label at home with a lesser copy and then re-submitted the raw 9.8 again for another 9.8 label and just kept the cycle going. Every cert # attached to this person's account is suspect. 

Take for example submission: 4277700006    batman 442
Cgc may not have included this one because maybe it was never sent back in for me/reholder/custom label.
Briva3 may have just sold it.
So if they decided to resubmit the book raw again, it would have a different cert number. So in that case, the old number 4277700006 wouldn't matter.

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BlancoBros

BlancoBros

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On 1/4/2024 at 4:15 PM, wiparker824 said:

ComicLink posted that they were doing just that. Not sure which books they had crossed off but they did say their proof was they have a record the person bought it from them, then reholdered it, then resold it thru them and the book is identical in images they have from the before and after reholder. 
 

But it is a really weird look to put out a list asking for people to send the books in and the next day start crossing them off.

Yes cgc just released the list. But that doesn't mean that list wasn't drafted a week ago.

In that scenario, they could have sent that list early to comiclink/heritage/etc. If they were in possession of any, they have physically sent the books or sent high quality photos to cgc. Being a priority, they could have reslabbed them already. For photos, they could have viewed cert number's original submission photos (not the reholdering photos) and compared them to what was in hand.

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gmasstermcd

gmasstermcd

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 6:10 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Does anyone here actually think this hurts the current value of their own CGC books they currently own?

Please quote me so I can ask you the next question.

Probably. I think it really hurts the value if you own one these books. Also with potentially 5% of ASM 300 9.8s being affected once it's sorted out you might think that the value of the real 9.8's could go up because they are slightly rarer.

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darkstar

darkstar

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 6:47 PM, BlancoBros said:

From what's been posted, it seems that the scam revolved around reholders/custom labels only. No evidence suggesting otherwise. (so far)

Take for example submission: 4277700006    batman 442
Cgc may not have included this one because maybe it was never sent back in for me/reholder/custom label.
Briva3 may have just sold it.
So if they decided to resubmit the book raw again, it would have a different cert number. So in that case, the old number 4277700006 wouldn't matter.

It is unknown if the scammer was able to swap labels/books at home and reseal them without requiring a re-submission to CGC for a reholder or custom label. In theory he could have swapped the 4277700006 label at home with an inferior copy without ever re-submitting it to CGC. It depends entirely on whether he was able to crack the slab and reseal it without noticeably damaging it. Until that is ruled out as a possibility CGC should have released a list of every book that was ever submitted under his account and not ones that were only resubmissions.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, gmasstermcd said:

Probably. I think it really hurts the value if you own one these books. Also with potentially 5% of ASM 300 9.8s being affected once it's sorted out you might think that the value of the real 9.8's could go up because they are slightly rarer.

That's not the question though. 

Are your own personal collection of CGC's now devalued? 

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 5:17 PM, gmasstermcd said:

Yes for sure.

 

So how much has your books gone down in value?

10 20 50 75% in your opinion?

Edited by NewWorldOrder
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gmasstermcd

gmasstermcd

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 8:19 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So how much has your books gone down in value?

10 20 50 75%?

I should be more specific the books themselves I don't think are devalued but the books in a CGC case are devalued. Percentage wise I don't know but I can say not quite enough to crack them out of their cases and keep them raw but it depends on how it's handled from here on out.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 5:20 PM, gmasstermcd said:

I should be more specific the books themselves I don't think are devalued but the books in a CGC case are devalued. Percentage wise I don't know but I can say not quite enough to crack them out of their cases and keep them raw but it depends on how it's handled from here on out.

So lets I say you have a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 (NOT on the scammer list).  That book is now worth less than it was before the scandal?

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360flip

360flip

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Posted

The 4277700 batch of submissions wasn't by zaneglor. He bought the 9.8 4277700-004 and did the swap for the lower grade MJ and resubmitted it for custom label. As I understand, the cert# doesn't change.

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ShaggyB

ShaggyB

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 1/4/2024 at 8:16 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

That's not the question though. 

Are your own personal collection of CGC's now devalued? 

What is the point you are trying to make?

Cgc books are no more or less valuable than the market says they are.

I can say an amazing fantasy 15 is worth x at cgc grade level Y... but until someone pays for it at that, its not worth that.

Edited by ShaggyB
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gmasstermcd

gmasstermcd

Posted
Posted
On 1/4/2024 at 8:22 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

So lets I say you have a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 (NOT on the scammer list).  That book is now worth less than it was before the scandal?

I do have a CGC 9.8 Amazing Spider-Man #300 that is not on the list and yes it is not as valuable as it was before this scandal. Just like it is not as valuable now as it was before CGC removed information from their labels.

 

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