ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[grendel013]

I had two old slabs graded 9.6 white and I decided to send to CCS and then CGC for regrade. They both came back 9.8 white. One of the two had grader note "light spine stress lines to cover". I always felt that was my pound of flesh.

[sledgehammer]

This book is not on the list, but apparently is supposed to be, by the note to report.    ASM 300  9.8  3786339001 

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3786339001/  

These two are part of the same submission, and are on the list 3786339002 ASM 300 9.8  and 3786339004  ASM 300  9.8 (sold May 8, 2021 for $8,500 and then again on August 29, 2021 for $5,800).

3786339003 and 3786339005 are also both ASM 300, 9.8., but not on the list.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 28 by sledgehammer

[comicwiz]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:48 PM, sledgehammer said:

This book is not on the list, but apparently is supposed to be, by the note to report.    ASM 300  9.8  3786339001 

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3786339001/   @CGC Mike

These two are part of the same submission, and are on the list 3786339002 ASM 300 9.8  and 3786339004  ASM 300  9.8 (sold May 8, 2021 for $8,500 and then again on August 29, 2021 for $5,800).

3786339003 and 3786339005 are also both ASM 300, 9.8., but not on the list.

 

 

 

 

It is on the list, that hyphen is a barrier to being able to intermingle/federate cert lookups with the 350 list, I have no idea why they had to use that format. 

Edited January 28 by comicwiz

[sledgehammer]

Thanks. I was sure this was another case of him submitting ONLY 5 or 6- 300s.

He was doing that often during that period.

[comicwiz]

On 1/28/2024 at 5:58 PM, sledgehammer said:

Thanks. I was sure this was another case of him submitting ONLY 5 or 6- 300s.

He was doing that often during that period.

Anytime, and FWIW, it's good you are doing these checks and noticing the things you are, and sharing them. It's allowed me to catch some things after going back and re-reviewing the data in my own research 

Edited January 28 by comicwiz

[Mdesimone]

On 1/24/2024 at 1:33 PM, Murphman13 said:

I would also like to get a complete explanation by CGC for the books being crossed off the list. Because right now it looks like it means “the issue is resolved”. But does that mean,

1) The book was not tampered with and is staying in its original slab? or 

2) The book was cracked out and determined to be untampered with and re-slabbed with the same certification #? or

3) The same as #2 but it had to be re-graded to fully determine it wasn’t tampered with so it was re-slabbed with a new certificate #? or

4) It was tampered with and they have resolved (or are resolving) the issue.

[WernerVonDoom]

On 1/28/2024 at 2:51 PM, comicwiz said:

It is on the list, that hyphen is a barrier to being able to intermingle/federate cert lookups with the 350 list, I have no idea why they had to use that format. 

Copy the list into excel, then use the replace tool to replace the - with nothing. The dashes will disappear.

[comicjel]

On 1/28/2024 at 3:05 PM, Yorick said:

I believe that would draw attention to the scammer by CGC (unless there was someone on the inside that needed those notes to transfer to the new certification).  I cannot imagine any reason for the scammer to return labels.  Having MORE labels creates more opportunity for the scamming.

I agree that there is likely no reason to return unused 9.8 labels (probably don't have many "unused" ones anyway), but I think it is very possible that the 9.2 and 9.4 labels from the inferior books might have been returned (maybe from a shill "customer") - if for no other reason than to have the "verify" scans disappear.

But this is just speculation on my part - until we learn more from CGC, or discover more from sleuthing, there continues to be more questions than answers. 

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/27/2024 at 11:17 AM, Junkdrawer said:

So it’s safe to paint all the graded collectibles markets and grading companies under suspicion?

Why all?

I only see one screwing up horribly.

And repeatedly.

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/28/2024 at 6:46 PM, Mdesimone said:

Trying to remember if I've ever received a receipt for a comic book.

[sledgehammer]

On January 12, 2021, the same store posts image on facebook showing six- 9.8 ASM 300s, with the comment "Behold!!!...."  

2 of them have custom labels.  Cert #s are not clear. None are newsstand.

On December 3, 2020, there was a submission with the following 5 cert #s (at least), 4 of them are ASM 300  9.8.

3752510001   ASM  300 no notes

3752510002   ASM  300 on the fraud list  no notes

3752510003   ASM 300  grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover "

3752510004    "Poof"  It's gone now.

3752510005   ASM 300  on the fraud list  no notes

3752510006    Poof??  no book for this number, or any other #s that could have potentially been in this submission.

2 books with custom labels, 2 books on the fraud list.

Here is the 005 notes, and a zoom in photo of what I am positive is that copy. It's blurry, but it ends in  005.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3752510005/

This is the closest I've seen to evidence that the store was touching books on the list, very close to the submission date. Each of the other books, was a yellow label, and we have no idea what the reholder/custom label date was.

Pretty damn circumstantial, but that's all it is, until CGC tells us more. They're only questions, and they at least warrant being answered.

 

 

[comicwiz]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:00 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Trying to remember if I've ever received a receipt for a comic book.

With the appraisal work I do, it is very rare for people to keep receipts. It is an unusual request, esp after reading through the CGC Guarantee, particularly the FMV mentioned as the method being used for compensation. In the manner it's stated, I might ask the purpose - i.e. is it essential to provide a recipet to arrive at an appropriate compensation to the impacted victims? Definitely a good habit to get into if you don't already keep receipts, it's an effective back-up when arriving at replacement cost, but I don't believe that's why it's being asked in this instance.

Edited January 29 by comicwiz

[Sigur Ros]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:36 AM, comicwiz said:

With the appraisal work I do, it is very rare for people to keep receipts. It is an unusual request, esp after reading through the CGC Guarantee, particularly the FMV mentioned as the method being used for compensation. In the manner it' stated, I might ask the purpose - i.e. is it essential to provide this for the impacted victims compensation? Definitely a good habit to get into if you don't keep receipts, it's an effective back-up when arriving at replacement cost, but I don't believe that's why it's being asked in this instance.

Yea, I can't imagine it would be needed, it's just the way it was phrased was as if a receipt was required to get things moving.

[sledgehammer]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:40 AM, Sigur Ros said:

Yea, I can't imagine it would be needed, it's just the way it was phrased was as if a receipt was required to get things moving.

It pretty clearly says that. Too bad this has been going on for at least FIVE FREAKING YEARS!

[Mdesimone]

This is the response I get when asked how will I be compensated, because the price I paid back in 2019 is half of what it would be worth now

[awakeintheashes]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:21 AM, sledgehammer said:

On January 12, 2021, the same store posts image on facebook showing six- 9.8 ASM 300s, with the comment "Behold!!!...."  

2 of them have custom labels.  Cert #s are not clear. None are newsstand.

On December 3, 2020, there was a submission with the following 5 cert #s (at least), 4 of them are ASM 300  9.8.

3752510001   ASM  300 no notes

3752510002   ASM  300 on the fraud list  no notes

3752510003   ASM 300  grader's note "very light spine stress lines to cover "

3752510004    "Poof"  It's gone now.

3752510005   ASM 300  on the fraud list  no notes

3752510006    Poof??  no book for this number, or any other #s that could have potentially been in this submission.

2 books with custom labels, 2 books on the fraud list.

Here is the 005 notes, and a zoom in photo of what I am positive is that copy. It's blurry, but it ends in  005.  https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/3752510005/

This is the closest I've seen to evidence that the store was touching books on the list, very close to the submission date. Each of the other books, was a yellow label, and we have no idea what the reholder/custom label date was.

Pretty damn circumstantial, but that's all it is, until CGC tells us more. They're only questions, and they at least warrant being answered.

 

 

When I pull up 3752510001, I get an ASM 194

[NEO Sports Cards]

Given all this nonsense lately, between the reholder and 9.9 prescreen. Do you all think people would be accepting of PSA entering the comic grading space? 
 

 

 

 

Would PSA ever enter the Comic Grading space? Has CGC left the door wide open?
https://youtu.be/udYUoGQDZo4

[Nick Furious]

On 1/29/2024 at 7:52 AM, Mdesimone said:

This is the response I get when asked how will I be compensated, because the price I paid back in 2019 is half of what it would be worth now

I don't mean to tell anyone what to do, but at this point, with receipt mentioned twice and no timeline, I think I would be responding back with my own politely worded reasonable request for compensation.  You did your part and complied quickly with their requests.  I don't think it would be unreasonable at this point to articulate some terms and conditions of your own.  Such as what you want, when you want it by and which obstacles (such as receipts) you find unacceptable.      

[Mdesimone]

On 1/29/2024 at 9:28 AM, Nick Furious said:

I don't mean to tell anyone what to do, but at this point, with receipt mentioned twice and no timeline, I think I would be responding back with my own politely worded reasonable request for compensation.  You did your part and complied quickly with their requests.  I don't think it would be unreasonable at this point to articulate some terms and conditions of your own.  Such as what you want, when you want it by and which obstacles (such as receipts) you find unacceptable.      

I have tried , I call and they won’t direct me to the correct people to talk to, I have asked how will I be compensated and I get that reply, I have emailed them to call me, it’s been over a week now with nothing, why bother going on a YouTube video and state we will be compensated fairly, I am reaching the end of my patience, 

[Nick Furious]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:35 AM, Mdesimone said:

I have tried , I call and they won’t direct me to the correct people to talk to, I have asked how will I be compensated and I get that reply, I have emailed them to call me, it’s been over a week now with nothing, why bother going on a YouTube video and state we will be compensated fairly, I am reaching the end of my patience, 

Maybe get your requests in writing formally in a polite-but-specific response to the customer service email?  Ask that person to take your request up the chain of command and get you a response.  I think that the more specific you are in your request, the more likely you would be to get action.