ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[comicwiz]

ASM 300 CGC 9.8 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to August 15, 2018)

Ten days ago I shared the first UNLISTED book (FF 48 CGC 5.5) and have continued compiling others. Today is a holiday here (Family Day) and I've tried to set aside some time to work/share another because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure,ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1333068004 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in August 3rd, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this ASM 300 appears 4 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

Cert: 1333068004
Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

1. 183297086318 | ebay | addict11 | 6/29/2018 | $2,265

 

2. 163182535151 | ebay | ncmultimarketing04 | 8/3/2018 | $2,702

Third appearance (The listing below is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, while keeping the same certification number)

3. 283097153694 ebay | alleged seller Cert: 1333068004 [8/15/2018] - $2,475

 

4. 232918685477 | ebay | azwildcatz520 | 9/7/2018 | $2,325 (reuses the same images from previous sale)

Edited February 19 by comicwiz

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:47 PM, comicwiz said:

ASM 300 CGC 9.8 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to August 15, 2018)

Ten days ago I shared the first UNLISTED book (FF 48 CGC 5.5) and have continued compiling others. Today is a holiday here (Family Day) and I've tried to set aside some time to work/share another because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure,ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1333068004 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in August 3rd, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this ASM 300 appears 4 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

Cert: 1333068004
Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

1. 183297086318 | ebay | addict11 | 6/29/2018 | $2,265

 

2. 163182535151 | ebay | ncmultimarketing04 | 8/3/2018 | $2,702

Third appearance (The listing below is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, while keeping the same certification number)

3. 283097153694 ebay | alleged seller Cert: 1333068004 [8/15/2018] - $2,475

 

4. 232918685477 | ebay | azwildcatz520 | 9/7/2018 | $2,325 (reuses the same images from previous sale)

I'm starting to wonder if there are not multiple books out in the population that have the same cert number - I know we have not seen this yet, but it would not shock me at this point!

[mrd160]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:22 PM, grendel013 said:

I was just reading my email too...   A Letter from Steven R. Eichenbaum

Dear friends, The Certified Collectibles Group and our companies — NGC, PMG, CGC and ASG — exist to protect the collecting community from counterfeit, overgraded and otherwise misrepresented collectibles. I like to say that we are the “Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval” in the collectibles world. Our position as the hobby’s first line of defense sometimes makes us a target for bad actors who try to defraud us or misappropriate the trust that we have built with our community. These scammers are persistent, and we are in a constant battle to prevent and detect fraud, such as counterfeiting or tampering with our holders. CCG has certified more than 85 million collectibles since 1987, including more than 10 million in 2023 alone. Counterfeit and tampered-with holders represent a tiny fraction of the holders in the marketplace, but even one is unacceptable to us. We continue to pursue an aggressive, multi-faceted strategy to combat this scourge. We take a number of defensive measures, such as imaging all collectibles, testing and upgrading the seals on our holders, releasing new high-security holograms and adding variable QR codes, with more to come. We also go on the offense and aggressively pursue bad actors, big and small, across the globe. We will keep the community informed of all of these developments, and today I’d like to give you an update on our legal efforts. In Europe, an individual falsely claimed that he did not receive a return submission of banknotes and tried to recover more than € 100,000 from us. Our team conducted an intensive investigation and determined that he not only received the package but had also distributed many of the banknotes. After tracing these notes back to him, we notified law enforcement in Germany, where we have an office in Munich; in Austria, where the banknotes were delivered; and Turkey, where the individual lives. Austrian authorities took up the case, and two weeks ago the individual was convicted of fraud and sentenced to 10 months in prison. Another incident involved two former employees, one of whom stole comic books from CGC submissions. They had these stolen books, along with some of their own books, encapsulated in CGC Comics holders, and then smuggled the books out of our facility to sell through various marketplaces. We swiftly filed a lawsuit against them and have already been granted a temporary restraining order while we pursue further actions, including damages. We have also filed a lawsuit against an individual and his partner who tampered with CGC comic book holders to replace higher-graded comic books with lower-graded comic books of the same type. We are keeping the community updated on comic books impacted by this incident here. On February 13, 2024, we obtained a Preliminary Injunction Order prohibiting the defendant from distributing, circulating, selling, marketing, altering, removing — basically anything related to CGC-graded books — pending the final hearing and ruling in the case. We are seeking further remedies from the court, including damages We will not tolerate acts of fraud against our community, and we will not rest until justice is served. We have been successful in the past. For example, last year, we advantageously settled a lawsuit against Richard Albright, who perpetrated a coin swapping scheme with NGC holders. He was ordered to report all collectibles that may have been impacted by his scheme, surrender all of his electronic devices during the investigation, cooperate with efforts to reimburse consumers and pay damages. We recognize that fighting fraud that has already occurred is only one half of the equation to solve for a protected, confident and whole community. Staying ahead of the bad actors is absolutely essential to ensure these types of incidents do not continue to happen, and we will take the steps necessary to enhance the security of our services and facilities. We have a comprehensive initiative to make continual, meaningful updates to the security of our products, and will share updates as they are available. Collectors and dealers can protect themselves from fraud in a number of ways: Always look up a collectible in our free Verification Certification tool on the homepage of our websites. All collectibles are now being imaged in high-resolution, and you can compare the images of your collectible to the images that we took. Buy from CCG Authorized Dealers, Official Submission Centers or Strategic Partners. You can look them up using the free Dealer Locator on our website. Choose online marketplaces that offer buyer protection, such as eBay. Do your research and exercise common sense. If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is. If you suspect fraud, please report it immediately to ReportFraud@CollectiblesGroup.com. We are committed to protecting our community from fraudsters and anyone else who seeks to take advantage of collectors. We are also committed to being transparent with all of you and sharing information about what we are doing for you. Your passion is our passion. Sincerely, Steven R. Eichenbaum CEO

Couldn’t get past the “dear friends” part….homeboy…we ain’t friends….:puke:

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 1:47 PM, comicwiz said:

ASM 300 CGC 9.8 - UNLISTED  ⬇️

(NOTE: This shifts the timeline of tampering further back to August 15, 2018)

Ten days ago I shared the first UNLISTED book (FF 48 CGC 5.5) and have continued compiling others. Today is a holiday here (Family Day) and I've tried to set aside some time to work/share another because I believe this is becoming even more important as events continue to unfold.

Applying the same details on the retrospective and current comparabiles analysis for books impacted by this "holder tampering." The purpose here is to use this unlisted book as an example of how one might arrive at a valuation suitable for redress and/or compensation.

While the serial number from the ComicVerify badge below is a sample, the data is live, and the screenshot takes you right to the sample appraisal and assessment, with notations, working links to diagrams, etc. Full disclosure,ComicVerify is an online appraisal service I began in March of 2022, along with an appraisal service called ToyVerify. It allowed me to streamline reports, and uses proprietary software I developed which helps accelerate the process of mining/discovery, recall, insight assement, as well as calculating comps using the desired valuation method, as well as offering real-time reporting, all accessible in a digital format (smartphone or on your computer).

Certification: 1333068004 (NOT ON THE LIST)

Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

Beginning first with the screenshot of the Cert for posterity:

Based on the assessment arrived at, replacement value would be the method of valuation best suited to handle the market fluctuations seen from the time the book was sold in August 3rd, 2018, and the current day, where consumers are being made aware of an alleged incident involving "holder tampering."

Click screenshot below to visit the online appraisal for further details

Additional notes for comparison, review, and posterity:

Sales history, this ASM 300 appears 4 times for sale, the order that follows is from the first appearance of this cert to the last

Cert: 1333068004
Amazing Spider-Man, The (1963) #300 CGC 9.8

1. 183297086318 | ebay | addict11 | 6/29/2018 | $2,265

 

2. 163182535151 | ebay | ncmultimarketing04 | 8/3/2018 | $2,702

Third appearance (The listing below is when we notice a change of the book inside the holder, while keeping the same certification number)

3. 283097153694 ebay | alleged seller Cert: 1333068004 [8/15/2018] - $2,475

 

4. 232918685477 | ebay | azwildcatz520 | 9/7/2018 | $2,325 (reuses the same images from previous sale)

I just took a look at the summary on page one, to see if that azwildcatz520, eBay user ID has been noted before.

I might have missed you noting it in one of your other posts, but that certainly seems like it would be another iteration of his user ID names.

@brute_nm

Edited February 19 by sledgehammer

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:54 PM, mrd160 said:

  On 2/19/2024 at 12:22 PM, grendel013 said:

A Letter from Steven R. Eichenbaum

Dear friends,

On 2/19/2024 at 2:54 PM, mrd160 said:

Couldn’t get past the “dear friends” part….homeboy…we ain’t friends….:puke:

 

[Krydel4]

If only there was some way to sell comics in a packaging where the seller could inspect the book physically inside and out and make sure it is the grade they wish to purchase, at the price they are agreeable to with the seller. Maybe one day we will come up with something...

[comicjel]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:39 PM, Krydel4 said:

If only there was some way to sell comics in a packaging where the seller could inspect the book physically inside and out and make sure it is the grade they wish to purchase, at the price they are agreeable to with the seller. Maybe one day we will come up with something...

Edited February 19 by comicjel

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:28 AM, MAR1979 said:

Sort of eliminates all need for ANY Grading Service.

  

Total agreement! In 2024 buying CGC slabbed comic/magazine carries significantly greater risk than purchasing raw.  To expand on that the same too applies to Trading Cards , Video Games and VHS Tapes (absurd to begin with).

Are saying buying a Hulk #181 on eBay "raw" listed by the seller as NM is less risky now than buying a already graded CGC 9.4 listed at auction going forward?

[BrashL]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Are saying buying a Hulk #181 on eBay "raw" listed by the seller as NM is less risky now than buying a already graded CGC 9.4 listed at auction going forward?

Depends how you define the risk. If you mean the risk of it missing the MVS for example then yes, CGC cased books are much riskier because they are unverifiable. 

[sledgehammer]

"CGC. We are still a lot safer than buying a raw copy of Hulk 181 from eBay, listed as near mint."

 

Edited February 19 by sledgehammer

[shadroch]

If I buy a raw 181  on ebay and it is missing the MVS, I have zero fear of losing my money.  If I buy a CGC 181, there is a greater than zero chance it is missing the MVS. 

 

Let's say Mrs. Schroder buys a CGC comic off ebay.  The book has a blue label which indicates the MVS is still intact. But is it? do we know for certain?  We don't know until we open the slab. Until then, the comic might have it or might not have it. 

Schroders comic exists in one of two states, and until it is opened, one can not know. 

Here is what I know-  Without examining the book, I can no longer be certain the MVS is there, and I don't feel comfortable selling a book I can't vouch for, so I can't in good conscious sell a product I don't have faith in.  As I'd planned on supplementing my retirement income selling slabs on MCS, this has been more than an inconvenience.   For now, I'm buying and selling raw books.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:17 PM, BrashL said:

Depends how you define the risk. If you mean the risk of it missing the MVS for example then yes, CGC cased books are much riskier because they are unverifiable. 

There is well know seller on eBay (based out of Montrose, California) that boardies have steered clear of for many years.  He always used to sell Hulk #181's raw saying "High Grade" or "Near Mint," but were clearly a sneaky looking VF+ or VF/NM.  Now can a good amount of people see through that I hope so, but a good amount of people who do not know how to grade will buy the book and be none the wiser.  Especially if they do not send in the book for grading and just stick in the box to lay raw for years.   Much bigger risk in all aspects of buying raw vs already graded for most casual/novice buyers even with the current scam.

[sledgehammer]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:39 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

There is well know seller on eBay (based out of Montrose, California) that boardies have steered clear of for many years.  He always used to sell Hulk #181's raw saying "High Grade" or "Near Mint," but were clearly a sneaky looking VF+ or VF/NM.  Now can a good amount of people see through that I hope so, but a good amount of people who do not know how to grade will buy the book and be none the wiser.  Especially if they do not send in the book for grading and just stick in the box to lay raw for years.   Much bigger risk in all aspects of buying raw vs already graded for most casual/novice buyers even with the current scam.

you sold me.

can you share a link, to your most recent listings?

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:37 PM, shadroch said:

If I buy a raw 181  on ebay and it is missing the MVS, I have zero fear of losing my money.  If I buy a CGC 181, there is a greater than zero chance it is missing the MVS. 

 

Let's say Mrs. Schroder buys a CGC comic off ebay.  The book has a blue label which indicates the MVS is still intact. But is it? do we know for certain?  We don't know until we open the slab. Until then, the comic might have it or might not have it. 

Schroders comic exists in one of two states, and until it is opened, one can not know. 

Here is what I know-  Without examining the book, I can no longer be certain the MVS is there, and I don't feel comfortable selling a book I can't vouch for, so I can't in good conscious sell a product I don't have faith in.  As I'd planned on supplementing my retirement income selling slabs on MCS, this has been more than an inconvenience.   For now, I'm buying and selling raw books.

I mean sure, I mean one could say how do I know all the pages of my AF 15 are really there? Does the Cover match the interior pages? Are the Pages really White Pages? etc etc

Your point is the trust has been broken in your eyes, I get that.  I am saying the vast majority of Hulk #181's in Universal labels are just that perfectly fine.  I cracked out probably 8 in my lifetime.  All the MVS were there.   A person is running more of risk buying a "raw" Hulk #181 than buying one already graded on eBay.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:42 PM, sledgehammer said:

you sold me.

can you share a link, to your most recent listings?

his most recent listing?

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:35 PM, sledgehammer said:

"CGC. We are still a lot safer than buying a raw copy of Hulk 181 from eBay, listed as near mint."

 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:35 PM, sledgehammer said:

"CGC. We are still a lot safer than buying a raw copy of Hulk 181 from eBay, listed as near mint."

 

Your joke aside that is a true statement.

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 4:50 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

On 2/19/2024 at 4:35 PM, sledgehammer said:

"CGC. We are still a lot safer than buying a raw copy of Hulk 181 from eBay, listed as near mint."

 

Your joke aside that is a true statement.

Maybe.  At least if there was an issue with ebay you have several ways of getting your money back. 

Unless that 181 is on the list , according to them you are SOL.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:54 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Maybe.  At least if there was an issue with ebay you have several ways of getting your money back. 

Unless that 181 is on the list , according to them you are SOL.

I am sure if you call then up and said you were nervous the MVS was not in there they would review it for you in light of everything that has happened.  Maybe not for FREE, but they would.  I mean isnt flying after a commercial crash the safest time to fly? Just a guess but right now is probably a good time to submit  

[onlyweaknesskryptonite]

On 2/19/2024 at 5:00 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I am sure if you call then up and said you were nervous the MVS was not in there they would review it for you in light of everything that has happened.  Maybe not for FREE, but they would. 

That is my point. They charge you to review.  If it was missing the MVS they then call you (if you are lucky ) and give the option of grade as is or send back as is. Either way you are out not only grade fees , but also the book that you thought you had purchased based on the grading they originally provided.  

Again in this scenario the CGC book is not safer.

Also to make it clear I am not going to be buying either.