ASM #252 CGC 9.8 Record Sale - something fishy going on? - Holder Tampering Incident confirmed by CGC 50 50

[wiparker824]

I’ve been away from this thread and CGC news for a few weeks dealing with some real life stuff… and somehow feel like I’ve missed a lot while also feeling like I’ve missed nothing during that time. And that comes after reading the lawsuit, this thread and Steve’s letter. I guess it’s cool we can now say the names and don’t have to talk in codes anymore. That’s something I guess. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:17 PM, wiparker824 said:

I’ve been away from this thread and CGC news for a few weeks dealing with some real life stuff… and somehow feel like I’ve missed a lot while also feeling like I’ve missed nothing during that time. And that comes after reading the lawsuit, this thread and Steve’s letter. I guess it’s cool we can now say the names and don’t have to talk in codes anymore. That’s something I guess. 

In short it's good to hear people around for the first stuff explain the fallout process, but I would agree that in itself doesn't build trust back over night.

If I was cgc I wouldn't think that way, for now. Thread encouraged to have at it, might help, so I don't think the minimizing helps or helps justify, that makes CGC look like any old slum corporation and it's hard to hear posts make that sound like a positive thing 😂

So ya nothing new. CGC doesn't stink to high heaven yet, and is attempting to care for collectors or for those at least that aren't skeptic.

I go out on a limb here hoping CGC makes good on their word, as long as CGC is out there. As for the posts to minimize or drudge speculation, that isn't up for my judgement now, not mine or any other singular entity to say 💯. Again imo.

No harm, in posting, just not a lot of people crying wolf, more people being hardened by it happening before and not affecting the bottom line. That is Stone Cold can I get a heck ya!  @Buzzetta @onlyweaknesskryptonite

[BrashL]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:14 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

.

Just two weekends ago at the first major convention of the year at Megacon, CGC was packed all weekend long. What I heard is they took in a record amount of submissions.  Not bad for so many collectors apparently saying they are "sitting on the sidelines."

 

I think I'll go with price drops and desperate letters from the CEO to determine how business is going for them rather than anecdotes and what you heard. 

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:08 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Idk if you're that disassociated due to volume of sales, or pain stakingly nit picking?

4 mil worth of books that are in litigation due to fraud? That is a big deal and a reputation is at stake, nevermind the confirmed 2000 slabs tampered compared to 10 mil seemingly OK. It is called brand recognition that "can be diminished" and  that is discussion.

Sure value might not go down by much or not as much over time, IF trust is rebuilt. This will add to ebay buyer scams that want partial refund due to not agreeing with the grade, and we could go on and on!

I don't own 9.8s that are worth $10,000 dollars and am "maybe not affected as much", but I don't go around trying to defend that point to make a deal about it.

You could come from the angle that your volume and cost of living hasn't been affected, which will be a better argument over time? But for now, it's not even that it is "too soon" or that "it's happened before and bo one batted an eye?"

People grieve in different aspects and making light of victims, is too close to be "making fun" if it were to indeed be too soon. You've made your point, no need to impede in the detective work and then them just to stop because you think it silly. Some good may come of it, and give credit where it is due.

I'm not saying I agree with all the suspension in some places or the suggestive surmising, but if those discoveries lead to actual discovery, then there is no harm. I'm not sure the "point" of convincing people when you don't keep up with the thread, a little disrespecting? I understand no one is on here 24 hours a day, but the perception of your posts is this long winded one that sounds like a 

You mean give credit to people like @comicwiz?  I did that.  If you would keep up with the thread you would have seen that

Over time?  It's been 2-3 months almost.  What hit has this scam down to the market?  Not seeing much.  Oh last ASM #300 sold for $3500 same as 2023.

All I have seen is disrespect the other way.   You are like the umpire that only sees the 2nd player after they throw the red flag but forgets the 1st player threw the first punch .

 

[universal soldier]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:11 PM, comicwiz said:

Then there's this:

Of those 2000+ submissions, CGC believes "[a]pproximately 369...were for reholdering"...although the complaint notes the "Defendants’ submissions have increased in recent years, with approximately 253 submissions in 2021, 345 submissions in 2022, and 329 submissions in 2023."

This submission data meshes with what I've seen, in terms of the progression of their activities, but falls short both in terms of the amount of subs in that three year span (927) when compared to their sales history records, as well as it falling short on when this starts - sales history shows it's as far back as 2016, but really took root in 2017/2018. 

I someone had to guess and put a rough estimate of the number of slabs impacted, is it greater than the 2000+ submissions? I would assume that at least a moderate portion would be donor books or at least "normal" submissions to muddy the waters and not have everything be suspect by being completely obvious.

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:24 PM, BrashL said:

I think I'll go with price drops and desperate letters from the CEO to determine how business is going for them rather than anecdotes and what you heard. 

Submissions would be down with or without the court cases, you realize that right?  They were down last year as well.

I mean that is obviously not the main reason.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:25 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You mean give credit to people like @comicwiz?  I did that.  If you would keep up with the thread you would have seen that

Over time?  It's been 2-3 months almost.  What hit has this scam down to the market?  Not seeing much.  Oh last ASM #300 sold for $3500 same as 2023.

All I have seen is disrespect the other way.   You are like the umpire that only sees the 2nd player after they throw the red flag but forgets the 1st player threw the first punch .

 

It is the victims who are crying, let them weep. They're not crying so much wolf, as they are discovering the world cgc lives in for themselves. Even some of them have been around as long as you, and still aren't so numb to the corporate world to say, "hey it isn't affecting my bottom line!" That is cynical at best but a fact nonetheless, they'll have to learn that and decide for themselves. I didn't see cgc trying to convince them yet? Why would you think it's not too soon? But I can let that go, I was trying to explain perception, but if your not interested in a discussion then it's up to you.

 

[BrashL]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:28 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

Submissions would be down with or without the court cases, you realize that right?  They were down last year as well.

I mean that is obviously not the main reason.

And yet last year they didn't cut prices or send a sad letter from the CEO.  Draw your own conclusions. 

[wiparker824]

On 2/20/2024 at 6:23 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

In short it's good to hear people around for the first stuff explain the fallout process, but I would agree that in itself doesn't build trust back over night.

If I was cgc I wouldn't think that way, for now. Thread encouraged to have at it, might help, so I don't think the minimizing helps or helps justify, that makes CGC look like any old slum corporation and it's hard to hear posts make that sound like a positive thing 😂

So ya nothing new. CGC doesn't stink to high heaven yet, and is attempting to care for collectors or for those at least that aren't skeptic.

I go out on a limb here hoping CGC makes good on their word, as long as CGC is out there. As for the posts to minimize or drudge speculation, that isn't up for my judgement now, not mine or any other singular entity to say 💯. Again imo.

No harm, in posting, just not a lot of people crying wolf, more people being hardened by it happening before and not affecting the bottom line. That is Stone Cold can I get a heck ya!  @Buzzetta @onlyweaknesskryptonite

Oh no, I’m definitely not minimizing or attempting to minimize with what I said… my point was more that to me what is now being made public (+- a few details) has been known even before the past few weeks by most that were tuned in. Just now things are becoming more public with the lawsuit. Somehow we are still in the same place in terms of a lot of the questions many of us had been asking… even the simple ones like why aren’t they providing the full list of all books submitted by the parties at hand even those they themselves don’t feel are suspicious, and what is this haphazard method they have for crossing items of the list? 
 

so like I said, felt like I missed a lot, then read everything and caught myself back up and realized I really didn’t. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:31 PM, BrashL said:

And yet last year they didn't cut prices or send a sad letter from the CEO.  Draw your own conclusions. 

While true, most I guess aren't as deep in the paint. I think about the average user that isn't even aware of the boards just now said...

Huh?

To that 2-3 month window just to get litigation started. Sure it'll probably be kept mostly private. Those who have seen this happen before were in the same boat then as those are now, were talking 10+ years ago, to the same people that defend new blood always has been entering the hobby.

Different culture different mindset different perception.

To give feedback here and have cgc say they'll keep up with it is all we're promised, and one can only hope (though not specifically stated in the announcements) they are at least hearing the complaints and reconciling the best they can.

That imo is how to build trust, or at least the appearance of it, there will always be skeptics. Cest la vie 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:34 PM, wiparker824 said:

Oh no, I’m definitely not minimizing or attempting to minimize with what I said… my point was more that to me what is now being made public (+- a few details) has been known even before the past few weeks by most that were tuned in. Just now things are becoming more public with the lawsuit. Somehow we are still in the same place in terms of a lot of the questions many of us had been asking… even the simple ones like why aren’t they providing the full list of all books submitted by the parties at hand even those they themselves don’t feel are suspicious, and what is this haphazard method they have for crossing items of the list? 
 

so like I said, felt like I missed a lot, then read everything and caught myself back up and realized I really didn’t. 

I totally agree.think of the different mindset between two longtime boardies.

With one being honest but hesitant in hindsight, and another that says well you'll get over it

Both are the realities being perceived by me as well. I can only say for me, it is decided but what can I really do about it? Cgc gives this thread to vent, and I said I'd keep my mouth shut, as I have for a while.

I guess what is really expected for me to do is make a YouTube video with a screen grab of disgust before you hit play

Otherwise just view the world burn never giving outsider perspective. Not looking to have all the answers. I'll continue to submit because this corp is too big that they won't do something about something in some kind of way. 

In short Faith. I don't see either side as infallible, so rather than ride the fence I'll bow out again 😉

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:31 PM, BrashL said:

And yet last year they didn't cut prices or send a sad letter from the CEO.  Draw your own conclusions. 

My conclusions are: (all have more of an impact than then these lawsuits)

The Fed and the interest rates #1 reason

Economy/inflation

COVID is really over and the fly by nighters are gone and so its the FREE stimulus printed money

People are broke, and lost a lot of money if they bought most CGC comics during the comic boom

MCU sucks now (Kevin Fiege is a fraud and Bob Iger is a disgrace)

Star Wars really sucks (Kathleen Kennedy is even more of a disgrace as per usual)

DCEU is in a reboot and yet to be dtermined

Local Comic Book stores are going out of business fast now (especially in socal in 2023) New Comic Book sales are at an all time low (Ultimate Spider-Man is good though), which leads to CGC bread and butter Modern submissions going way down.  Honestly this may be the #1 reason for CGC.

Only one MCU movie in 2024 with Deadpool 3

Spec driving up the books wont be coming back to maybe 2025 or post SDCC 2024

Now to be clear I am not dismissing these lawsuits as having no impact, but IMO everything above has had more of an impact since the comic boom ended though.

Either way I am happy CGC is giving me a better deal on submitting.  The hobby right now is again IMO in a great place for buying and selling. Prices seem pretty fair now to me.

Edited February 21 by NewWorldOrder

[NewWorldOrder]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:29 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

It is the victims who are crying, let them weep. They're not crying so much wolf, as they are discovering the world cgc lives in for themselves. Even some of them have been around as long as you, and still aren't so numb to the corporate world to say, "hey it isn't affecting my bottom line!" That is cynical at best but a fact nonetheless, they'll have to learn that and decide for themselves. I didn't see cgc trying to convince them yet? Why would you think it's not too soon? But I can let that go, I was trying to explain perception, but if your not interested in a discussion then it's up to you.

 

I am just tired, I need to get back to other things.  But I see what you are saying. However I still stand by what my overall points are.  Nothing much more to say about it going forward.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:25 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

You mean give credit to people like @comicwiz?  I did that.  If you would keep up with the thread you would have seen that

Over time?  It's been 2-3 months almost.  What hit has this scam down to the market?  Not seeing much.  Oh last ASM #300 sold for $3500 same as 2023.

All I have seen is disrespect the other way.   You are like the umpire that only sees the 2nd player after they throw the red flag but forgets the 1st player threw the first punch .

 

And you did all that, didn't mean to minimize that nor say otherwise, by the way. No one is 100 percent right and that is onky from my perspective.

I don't think this thing has played out far enough for my opinion to hold weight, it might hold water, but I'm not trying to sway.

This is a year out from resolve imo.

It's hard to watch and not get sucked in

[ADAMANTIUM]

@wiparker824 just to clarify, your post said you had read up, but I thought that meant also the last couple of posts I made, so I kind of relayed my point again, because it is the same old discussion with:

The books like you said, the positve and negative outlooks, and even my own foot in mouth trying to grasp at straws.

i want cgc to succeed more than i want myself too, and idk if it is the presence at cons or the boards usually being refreshing in a lot of ways.

I think of that stuff too when I say cgc will need to figure out a solution, I just hope to be apart of a solution as well.

Indeed the same questions like you said, and I still don't have answers either. It stilt gets sidetracked too

(as some may have even seen my posts as lol)

 

[BrashL]

On 2/20/2024 at 7:45 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

My conclusions are: (all have more of an impact than then these lawsuits)

The Fed and the interest rates #1 reason

Economy/inflation

COVID is really over and the fly by nighters are gone and so its the FREE stimulus printed money

People are broke, and lost a lot of money if they bought most CGC comics during the comic boom

MCU sucks now (Kevin Fiege is a fraud and Bob Iger is a disgrace)

Star Wars really sucks (Kathleen Kennedy is even more of a disgrace as per usual)

DCEU is in a reboot and yet to be dtermined

Local Comic Book stores are going out of business fast now (especially in socal in 2023) New Comic Book sales are at an all time low (Ultimate Spider-Man is good though), which leads to CGC bread and butter Modern submissions going way down.  Honestly this may be the #1 reason for CGC.

Only one MCU movie in 2024 with Deadpool 3

Spec driving up the books wont be coming back to maybe 2025 or post SDCC 2024

Now to be clear I am not dismissing these lawsuits as having no impact, but IMO everything above has had more of an impact since the comic boom ended though.

Either way I am happy CGC is giving me a better deal on submitting.  The hobby right now is again IMO in a great place for buying and selling. Prices seem pretty fair now to me.

OK but that still all happened in the last year or two and yet nothing from CGC until the past two weeks.  So my point still stands but you can believe what you want, we’ll never know.  

[paqart]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:45 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

My conclusions are: (all have more of an impact than then these lawsuits)

The Fed and the interest rates #1 reason

Economy/inflation

COVID is really over and the fly by nighters are gone and so its the FREE stimulus printed money

People are broke, and lost a lot of money if they bought most CGC comics during the comic boom

MCU sucks now (Kevin Fiege is a fraud and Bob Iger is a disgrace)

Star Wars really sucks (Kathleen Kennedy is even more of a disgrace as per usual)

DCEU is in a reboot and yet to be dtermined

Local Comic Book stores are going out of business fast now (especially in socal in 2023) New Comic Book sales are at an all time low (Ultimate Spider-Man is good though), which leads to CGC bread and butter Modern submissions going way down.  Honestly this may be the #1 reason for CGC.

Only one MCU movie in 2024 with Deadpool 3

Spec driving up the books wont be coming back to maybe 2025 or post SDCC 2024

Now to be clear I am not dismissing these lawsuits as having no impact, but IMO everything above has had more of an impact since the comic boom ended though.

Either way I am happy CGC is giving me a better deal on submitting.  The hobby right now is again IMO in a great place for buying and selling. Prices seem pretty fair now to me.

If only the MCU could go back to the pre-Disney days, when they still had respect for the characters.

[comeaux]

On 2/20/2024 at 3:21 PM, Dark Knight said:

Moving forward, I expect CGC to tighten up their comic book inspections before assigning a grade. These latest incidents/mishaps from CGC cannot  happen again. They probably need to re-train everyone from the time they receive a package from a customer to shipping out back their property. Step by step, they have to instill stricter guidelines to follow. Security cameras are a must for each department, which I've mentioned before. PSA has had that set-up for a few years now after several past customers (including myself) complained that their cards were damaged during the grading process.

Sure TAT's will be slower, but in my eyes, will be well worth the wait. I do not want to second guess buying a CGC graded comic, thinking if something was missing or if the grade assigned is accurate for that book. I've spent a lot of money towards CGC graded books in my lifetime thinking that each book I paid is all good. I'm hoping CGC can announce soon what added security featues to the slab will be done to prevent bad actors from compromising the slab by switching books and/or labels out. 

Time will tell if any such improvements will be made.

Nothing will change at CGC, it’s the same incompetent management who allowed fraudulent books to be sent in for reholder, held these fraudulent books in their hands and then sent back this bogus CGC product to the scammer to be sold to the unknowing CGC masses. They allowed CGC employee thugs to print fake labels for an unknown number of books to bilk CGC customers. 

CGC has preferential customers who send in books for a “reholder” wherein they just send in the book with a label without the cracked/broken case. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, CGC sends these natives back a freshly reholdered book. Try that yourself and see how that works out for ya. 

It’s the same CGC employees hired from Shoe Town to handle your books at minimum wage. 
 

The natives have to dump a few 100 CGC slabs a month, this chitshow is pinching their wallet and is why they pop in to read a few posts, throw a few rocks, then disappear back in CGC’s turd funnel. 

[comicwiz]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:19 PM, comeaux said:

Nothing will change at CGC, it’s the same incompetent management who allowed fraudulent books to be sent in for reholder, held these fraudulent books in their hands and then sent back this bogus CGC product to the scammer to be sold to the unknowing CGC masses. They allowed CGC employee thugs to print fake labels for an unknown number of books to bilk CGC customers. 

CGC has preferential customers who send in books for a “reholder” wherein they just send in the book with a label without the cracked/broken case. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, CGC sends these natives back a freshly reholdered book. Try that yourself and see how that works out for ya. 

It’s the same CGC employees hired from Shoe Town to handle your books at minimum wage. 
 

The natives have to dump a few 100 CGC slabs a month, this chitshow is pinching their wallet and is why they pop in to read a few posts, throw a few rocks, then disappear back in CGC’s turd funnel. 

Protect this man! 

Edited February 21 by comicwiz

[Sigur Ros]

On 2/20/2024 at 11:19 PM, comeaux said:

Nothing will change at CGC, it’s the same incompetent management who allowed fraudulent books to be sent in for reholder, held these fraudulent books in their hands and then sent back this bogus CGC product to the scammer to be sold to the unknowing CGC masses. They allowed CGC employee thugs to print fake labels for an unknown number of books to bilk CGC customers. 

CGC has preferential customers who send in books for a “reholder” wherein they just send in the book with a label without the cracked/broken case. NO QUESTIONS ASKED, CGC sends these natives back a freshly reholdered book. Try that yourself and see how that works out for ya. 

It’s the same CGC employees hired from Shoe Town to handle your books at minimum wage. 
 

The natives have to dump a few 100 CGC slabs a month, this chitshow is pinching their wallet and is why they pop in to read a few posts, throw a few rocks, then disappear back in CGC’s turd funnel. 

Another CGC fanboy...