[BREAKING WITH NEW SELLER EXPLANATION] Can Someone Explain This to Me? 2 2

[sfcityduck]

Star Spangled Comics 65 CGC 8.0 No. 0754144011 offered on eBay right now by Collector's Fix:

Star Spangled Comics 65 CGC 8.0 No. 0754144011 sold on ComicLink on 5/31/2023 9:32:20 PM:

Same book now damaged or different books? Appears to have been re-holdered.  Maybe damaged then with no change in grade?  Doesn't look like it is still a CGC 8.0. But maybe I'm missing something.

Anyone from @CGC Comics want to offer their thoughts?

I'm actively in the market for a nice copy of this comic.

 

Edited January 22 by sfcityduck

[adamstrange]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

Same book now damaged or different books? Appears to have been re-holdered.  Maybe damaged then with no change in grade?  Doesn't look like it is still a CGC 8.0. But maybe I'm missing something.

Anyone from @CGC Comics want to offer their thoughts?

I'm actively in the market for a nice copy of this comic.

Could be another one of the books where an inferior copy is substituted during re-holdering.

Or the case could have been hacked after re-holdering.

 

[Sam T]

This is pretty weird. I'm wondering how the registry actually handles reholdering. Right now it's "Grade Date" is listed as 2006 but the label is the newer style that wasn't used until 2016.

 

Does sending a book to CGC for reholdering in a new label usually trigger a change in the "Grade Date" in the registry?

[sfcityduck]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:32 PM, adamstrange said:

Could be another one of the books where an inferior copy is substituted during re-holdering.

Or the case could have been hacked after re-holdering.

 

To my eyes, the pattern of foxing/discoloration along the right side make it look like the same book.  But I don't understand how the piece in the upper right corner disappeared and why that did not impact the grade when re-holdered.  Maybe CGC damaged it and kept the same grade?  It's a mystery to me.

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:41 PM, Sam T said:

Does sending a book to CGC for reholdering in a new label usually trigger a change in the "Grade Date" in the registry?

No, the book retains its original date.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/21/2024 at 5:45 PM, szav said:

Looks like the same book with a chip off the top right corner now.  The dirt/staining/shadowing or whatever that is along the right edge that goes diagonal up to the left of the Feb 1947 is identical in both.  My guess is it was damaged then reholdered and they either missed the corner chip or gave it a pass and allowed it a new slab with the same grade.

My thought too. I searched the eBay pictures for evidence of the chip in the holder and I didn't see any. I also don't think that chip could have happened in the holder. So that begs the most likely scenario would seem to be that CGC damaged the book during the re-holdering period and either missed it or gave it a pass. I don't think the seller subbed the book out. This looks like a CGC issue and the Seller is just letting buyers decide if they are buying a book or a holder.

Edited January 22 by sfcityduck

[jimbo_7071]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:45 PM, szav said:

Looks like the same book with a chip off the top right corner now.  The dirt/staining/shadowing or whatever that is along the right edge that goes diagonal up to the left of the Feb 1947 is identical in both.  My guess is it was damaged then reholdered and they either missed the corner chip or gave it a pass and allowed it a new slab with the same grade.

The grade should have dropped to 7.5 or below when that chip came off. The presence of that chip makes me wonder whether there's some heavy cover tanning that isn't mentioned in the notes. The book was slabbed in 2006, and CGC may not have been consistent about noting cover tanning back then (if they even are now).

[buttock]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:49 PM, sfcityduck said:

My thought too. I searched the eBay pictures for evidence of the chip in the holder and I didn't see any. I also don't think that chip could have happened in the holder. So that begs the most likely scenario would seem to be that CGC damaged the book during the re-holdering period and either missed it or gave it a pass. I don't think the seller subbed the book out. This looks like a CGC issue and the Seller is just letting buyers decide if they are buying a book or a holder.

The chip definitely could have happened in the holder.  I've seen that where it gets pinched between the sides of the inner well and torn off.  The question is why wasn't it taken into account during the reholdering process.  I have seen worse missing pieces given an 8.0, but I don't know of any collectors who agree with that.  

[sfcityduck]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:00 PM, buttock said:

The chip definitely could have happened in the holder.  I've seen that where it gets pinched between the sides of the inner well and torn off.  The question is why wasn't it taken into account during the reholdering process.  I have seen worse missing pieces given an 8.0, but I don't know of any collectors who agree with that.  

I know CGC doesn't guarantee the grades, but when I see that 1947 Star Spangled 65 getting an 8.0 with that piece missing, and this WDC&S 69 from a year earlier is getting raped for a 7.0 (white) grade, it makes me more than a little disappointed:

Edited January 22 by sfcityduck

[buttock]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:06 PM, sfcityduck said:

I know CGC doesn't guarantee the grades, but when I see that 1947 Star Spangled 65 getting an 8.0 with that piece missing, and this WDC&S 69 from a year earlier is getting raped for a 7.0 (white) grade:

Yeah, but there's that horrible 8.0 Promise Subby 13 with a chunk that's 5-6x larger than this one.  Like I said, I don't know any collectors who agree with it.  

[JollyComics]

https://www.cgccomics.com/certlookup/0754144011/

Same certification number  - new and old.

I am sure this is the same book in the new reholder.

Grader Notes

Left Center Back Cover Small Tear
Left Top Back Cover Small Multiple Crease
Right Center Front Cover Shadow
Spine Stress Lines

 

[JollyComics]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:06 PM, sfcityduck said:

I know CGC doesn't guarantee the grades, but when I see that 1947 Star Spangled 65 getting an 8.0 with that piece missing, and this WDC&S 69 from a year earlier is getting raped for a 7.0 (white) grade, it makes me more than a little disappointed:

Grader Notes

light spine stress lines to cover
moderate creasing to cover - it brings the grade down.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/21/2024 at 6:10 PM, JollyComics said:

Grader Notes

light spine stress lines to cover
moderate creasing to cover - it brings the grade down.

Except there is no color breaking or texture inducing creasing on that WDC&S 69 cover.  On the other hand, this Star Spangled 65 has some texture inducing defects (for example above Robin's head) which are much worse. Is it too much to ask for consistency?  I'm not comparing a 1947 book to a 1977 or 1997 book, I'm comparing 1947 to 1946:

[JollyComics]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:14 PM, sfcityduck said:

Except there is no color breaking or texture inducing creasing on that WDC&S 69 cover.  On the other hand, this Star Spangled 65 has some texture inducing defects (for example above Robin's head) which are much worse. Is it too much to ask for consistency?  I'm not comparing a 1947 book to a 1977 or 1997 book, I'm comparing 1947 to 1946:

It's very hard to see the crease on this book.  I have same problem when I graded those GA books in last CGC grading contest.  Most grades threw my grades off.  They are much softer on GA books than any era books.

[sfcityduck]

BREAKING - SELLER JUST EMAILED ME AS FOLLOWS!  As I speculated above, Seller says this was a CGC reholdering issue - not nefarious by seller.

Hello and thanks for the note. I just pulled the book out and it appears that top right corner got folded down as it's not missing, but just folded over. I'm guessing CGC may have done this when the book got re-holdered, but no way to confirm at this point.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

[buttock]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:20 PM, sfcityduck said:

BREAKING - SELLER JUST EMAILED ME AS FOLLOWS!  As I speculated above, Seller says this was a CGC reholdering issue - not nefarious by seller.

Hello and thanks for the note. I just pulled the book out and it appears that top right corner got folded down as it's not missing, but just folded over. I'm guessing CGC may have done this when the book got re-holdered, but no way to confirm at this point.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Doesn't look like a fold-over, more like a chip.  

[Ghastly542454]

I just sent back 2 books for reholders and both had a piece on the cover where it was bent over in the slab. Since I was not the original submitter and there is now a time limit, I could not send them back as a mechanical error. However, I did circle ⭕️ the slab with a black marker on both and on the submission form, I wrote mechanical error. They should be finished this week and I’m interested to see if they did as I asked, to unfold the bent piece and if the grade remains the same. Here’s one of them.

[sfcityduck]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:56 PM, buttock said:

Doesn't look like a fold-over, more like a chip.  

May be a torn piece folded inward.

[MusterMark]

On 1/21/2024 at 7:56 PM, buttock said:

Doesn't look like a fold-over, more like a chip.  

It is much too difficult to tell from that pic - could be either way.  More zooming in and/or higher resolution would be required.

[Tri-Color Brian]

I have NEVER encountered any problems with CGC or their holders, because I never slab anything...