Certified Collectibles Group to Acquire James Spence Authentication 11 11

[MachoGrande]

I predict that the value differential between witnessed and authenticated signatures will eventually be negligible. I'm most interested in how this will affect the sales of raw signed books on ebay.

And also how it will affect the prices creators charge for signatures. Will artists who charge a premium for witnessed signatures now raise prices across the board?

[trademarkcomics]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:12 AM, icp004 said:

Could it also be signature placement??? These are two Zeck signatures I got at Baltimore ComicCon about 10 years back. The SW8 def has better eye appeal even though the two signatures look pretty much the same.  Would the SW8 get a better signature grade??? 

I would think placement would matter. Stan's sig here in black sharpie on ASM #28, for example, would make the grade of the sig fall for me, since you can't see it well. Also, he had a penchant for signing right over Spidey's face...that would have to matter. 

[I like pie]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:14 AM, MattM CS said:

Can you post or send me an example with the cert number visible at submissions@cgccomics.com? 

Pm sent

[wombat]

On 5/8/2024 at 2:29 PM, MachoGrande said:

I predict that the value differential between witnessed and authenticated signatures will eventually be negligible. I'm most interested in how this will affect the sales of raw signed books on ebay.

And also how it will affect the prices creators charge for signatures. Will artists who charge a premium for witnessed signatures now raise prices across the board?

No idea on volume, but slabbed verified sigs have been taking place for a while "over there". So its not like this is a new thing. 

[jcjames]

Wait, so are they really grading the quality/placement of the signature in UNverfied signatures only... so wouldn't that make a "5.0" or "6.0" signature more of a "nudge-nudge,wink-wink" as to whether it's actually authentic compared to a "8.0" or "9.0" signature??? 

Meanwhile verified signatures completely obliterating the only face on the cover would still have no such quality/placement grade for the signature???

This sounds so very confusing!

 

ETA: Why would the quality/placement of the signature of an UNverified signature need to be graded anyway??? It's either authentic or not - and it's obvious if it looks bad, sloppy, smeared or terribly-placed. Much more obvious than whether it's authentic.

So again, WHY grade the "quality/placement" of only UNverified signatures now??

Edited May 8 by jcjames

[jcjames]

On 5/8/2024 at 9:21 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Tonfulle: 

[MachoGrande]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:07 PM, wombat said:

No idea on volume, but slabbed verified sigs have been taking place for a while "over there". So its not like this is a new thing. 

I'm aware, but CGC...and JSA...hold more weight than those guys. Plus, by keeping the yellow label for authenticated sigs, I believe that adds a certain psychological advantage. If authenticated sigs had been introduced with an orange label, I could see the natural ordering shaking out as Yellow>Orange>Blue. 

[wombat]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:29 PM, MachoGrande said:

I'm aware, but CGC...and JSA...hold more weight than those guys. Plus, by keeping the yellow label for authenticated sigs, I believe that adds a certain psychological advantage. If authenticated sigs had been introduced with an orange label, I could see the natural ordering shaking out as Yellow>Orange>Blue. 

That was directed at the comment about artists charging more now since people can get them verified. My guess is that wouldn't happen since at that point its impossible to know what the intent is. 

[troydivision1]

What does the Signature Series hive mind think -
Will books (like mine below) that took the grade hit to keep a solid label yellow label fair better in the long run vs. a higher grade new yellow and black stripe label?
(presuming the current yellow and green labels on eBay will resubmit for the new label)

Edited May 8 by troydivision1
added a sentence

[SpineTic]

 

[cousin itt]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:02 PM, troydivision1 said:

What does the Signature Series hive mind think -
Will books (like mine below) that took the grade hit to keep a solid label yellow label fair better in the long run vs. a higher grade new yellow and black stripe label?
(presuming the current yellow and green labels on eBay will resubmit for the new label)

I asked about these books earlier in this thread and someone said they wouldn't be verified because there are doubts as to whether or not that jack kirby sig is real; even if it is certified as real, no one knows who wrote 968/2000 on the cover so it should still get a grade hit for having writing on the cover.

[Mr. Zipper]

On 5/8/2024 at 5:02 PM, troydivision1 said:

What does the Signature Series hive mind think -
Will books (like mine below) that took the grade hit to keep a solid label yellow label fair better in the long run vs. a higher grade new yellow and black stripe label?
(presuming the current yellow and green labels on eBay will resubmit for the new label)

The Kirby will not pass authentication. I don't know what the policy when one sig passes and one fails. You're likely best leaving it as-is.

[ExNihilo]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:29 AM, MachoGrande said:

I predict that the value differential between witnessed and authenticated signatures will eventually be negligible.

I will always pay more for witnessed vs authenticated.  There are bound to be forged books that sneak past the authenticators so those signatures will always come with a hint of doubt in my book.

On 5/8/2024 at 1:29 PM, MachoGrande said:

Yellow>Orange>Blue. 

Yellow/Blue > Orange/Green is how I see things shaking out.

[DocGo]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:29 PM, MachoGrande said:

I predict that the value differential between witnessed and authenticated signatures will eventually be negligible.

Do you think buyers will know and/or care about the difference between the two when the “authenticated” slabs first hit the market?

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 5/8/2024 at 1:39 PM, wombat said:

That was directed at the comment about artists charging more now since people can get them verified. My guess is that wouldn't happen since at that point its impossible to know what the intent is. 

[Mr. Zipper]

On 5/8/2024 at 2:53 PM, trademarkcomics said:

I would think placement would matter. Stan's sig here in black sharpie on ASM #28, for example, would make the grade of the sig fall for me, since you can't see it well. Also, he had a penchant for signing right over Spidey's face...that would have to matter. 

Of course contrast matters. Signature grading is based on boldness, placement/contrast, fading, smearing, skips/streakiness. 

[jcjames]

On 5/8/2024 at 3:53 PM, Mr. Zipper said:

Of course contrast matters. Signature grading is based on boldness, placement/contrast, fading, smearing, skips/streakiness. 

Will CGC start "grading" their CGC-witnessed signatures now too? 

If so, why start now? 

If not, then why bother grading "authenticated" signatures in their SS-JSA books? 

So confusing. 

 

[MachoGrande]

On 5/8/2024 at 6:07 PM, DocGo said:

Do you think buyers will know and/or care about the difference between the two when the “authenticated” slabs first hit the market?

Hard to say in the short term. I’m confident that as time goes on the collecting community at-large won’t recognize much of a distinction between witnessed or authenticated—if any at all. Despite the black-stripe designation, I can envision a “a yellow label is a yellow label” mentality. 

(I realize I’m ignoring years of the autograph “verification” sales data. I don’t see them as comparable)

Some long-time collectors will always prefer witnessed signatures. The market will decide. And I see collectors putting faith into CGC authentication the same way they accept CGC’s grading as gospel. 

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:56 PM, MachoGrande said:

the same way they accept CGC’s grading as gospel. 

[MachoGrande]

On 5/8/2024 at 8:13 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Haha! I could have worded that better. I’m not implying CGC is the last word on grading, but rather, the collectors I sell to pay a premium for CGC when a similarly graded example is available. While the small sampling of collectors represented on this site are quick to call out CGC chicanery, I see far more collectors who simply buy the number on the slab and move on to the next purchase.