AF #15 CGC 9.0 on the 'link

[jimm94]

I figured you meant it tongue-in-cheek, but I just wanted to make sure the point was clarified since some people are skeptical of the integrity of CGC's graders.

[tth2]

Any book worth more than $10k I would personally take to CGC and wait for it to be graded.

You guys are too paranoid, and $10K isn't a high enough amount to justify the inconvenience and lost time. I've had no problems with $10K+ books that I've shipped to CGC for grading. Now, if I had a $100K book...

[jimm94]

You're probably right. I think it's all relative to one's comfort level with making large purchases. I'd say maybe 20k would be my threshold of traveling, but it's irrelevant at this point since the most I've ever spent on a single book is 1k.

[esquirecomics]

Any book worth more than $10k I would personally take to CGC and wait for it to be graded.

You guys are too paranoid, and $10K isn't a high enough amount to justify the inconvenience and lost time. I've had no problems with $10K+ books that I've shipped to CGC for grading. Now, if I had a $100K book...

 

Depends on where you are. Its an easy flight for me to FL to go there and back if I needed to, or a show where CGC is doing on-site grading. And the likelihood is that I would have several high dollar books for them to grade so the time investment is worth it. Plus frequent flyer miles and maybe good looking flight attendants on Hooters Air!

[Forbush-Man]

I found the below statement very interesting being that you have a 9.2 Showcase #4 priced at over $100K?

 

What exactly besides the hype that it's the beginning of the Silver age that makes this book worth that? With your statement below why would a buyer want to buy that book? Being that there have recently been a 9.4 and now a 9.6 graded makes me wonder how this book commands that price.

 

"All I am saying is that I, personally, would not risk the enormous capital/multiples that some are asking for key HG SA books unless I had a guaranteed quick flip already set because I, personally, believe the market will not sustain the multiples especially in light of my prediction that a significant number of "new" HG copies will eventually appear".

 

 

 

 

Bob,

 

This book is "The Grail" for Silver Age collector's: The start of the Silver Age of Comics!

 

Scarce is a correct term for this Silver Age Key:

 

Current CGC Census:

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2

9.0 1

 

Amazing Fantasy # 15

9.6 1

9.4 5

9.2 2

9.0 4

 

I understand that the money involved in purchasing such a book, without having a sale lined up, may put you off......but I seriously doubt a "large number of high-grade copies" of this particular book will ever surface.

 

Given the number of FF # 1's and AF # 15's that exist, I would take a Showcase # 4 over either one. Just MHO.

[Forbush-Man]

I think Bob's just a wee little jealous.

[Forbush-Man]

.....not to even mention that CGC is harsher in their grading of Silver Age DC's than they are with Marvel's.......

[blazingbob]

I'll compare my "grail" versus the supposedly Silver Age grail.

Secondly the census on FF #1 is incorrect.

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Five (5) FF #1's Versus Four (4) Showcase #4's.

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

 

How many collectors ask me for Fantastic Four #1 in the last 5 years - Too many to list.

[Forbush-Man]

I'll compare my "grail" versus the supposedly Silver Age grail.

Secondly the census on FF #1 is incorrect.

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Five (5) FF #1's Versus Four (4) Showcase #4's.

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

 

How many collectors ask me for Fantastic Four #1 in the last 5 years - Too many to list.

 

I understand its market appeal (FF #1), but the historic significance of Showcase #4 is still there. Markets come and go....

 

[Forbush-Man]

I'll compare my "grail" versus the supposedly Silver Age grail.

Secondly the census on FF #1 is incorrect.

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Five (5) FF #1's Versus Four (4) Showcase #4's.

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

 

How many collectors ask me for Fantastic Four #1 in the last 5 years - Too many to list.

 

So, is this correct:

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 4

9.2 2

9.0 0

 

[Forbush-Man]

I'll compare my "grail" versus the supposedly Silver Age grail.

Secondly the census on FF #1 is incorrect.

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Five (5) FF #1's Versus Four (4) Showcase #4's.

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

 

How many collectors ask me for Fantastic Four #1 in the last 5 years - Too many to list.

 

So, is this correct:

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 4

9.2 2

9.0 0

 

 

That would still mean there are close to double the amount of high-grade FF #1's (7) to Showcase # 4 (4).

[Forbush-Man]

How's the census for AF # 15?

 

I, personally, would rather have a high-grade Showcase # 4.

[esquirecomics]

I'll compare my "grail" versus the supposedly Silver Age grail.

Secondly the census on FF #1 is incorrect.

 

Fantastic Four # 1

9.6 1

9.4 3

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

 

Showcase # 4:

9.6 1

9.4 1

9.2 1

9.0 1

 

Five (5) FF #1's Versus Four (4) Showcase #4's.

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

 

How many collectors ask me for Fantastic Four #1 in the last 5 years - Too many to list.

 

Frankly Bob, I fail to see what problem you have with my comment. I offered a broad brush comment about key HG SA using AF#15 as the impetus for the post. You strike back with your challenge and then make a comparison using only FF#1 vs Showcase #4. I never compared the two. From a resale perspective, yes, I would probably prefer to have a 9.2 FF#1 than a 9.2 Showcase #4 b/c it would likely sell faster. Not as much money but faster. Of course, I'm not like you and need to sell fast. I can wait and wait until that one person who asked you in the last 5 years for a Showcase #4 comes along and then BAM I have a MAJOR sale.

 

If you are going to challenge my assertion, which is nothing but opinion and has no right or wrong answer, then you need to do so using the key HG SA from 1961-1964 (FF, Hulk, AF, ASM, X-Men, Avengers, TTA, TTS, JIM, Daredevil, etc). And even with this category there will clearly be a difference between them given the years of publication. Likely FF#1 in HG will be the rarest of the lot. But do you really think that there are not mulitple unknown HG copies of early ASM, Daredevil, X-Men and Avengers, etc. just waiting to surface and blow holes in the absurd, IMHO, multiples these issues are now getting b/c only a relative few have been certified and/or promoted for sale?

[tth2]

Fantastic Four # 1

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

The fact that a 9.2 was stolen doesn't mean it doesn't exist for purposes of the census, no?

 

Bob, was the 9.0 FF 1 that you're saying is now a 9.4 the Slobodian copy?

 

How many collectors ask me for Showcase #4 in the last 5 years I've been in business - One.

That's because they know you're a Marvel guy.

[tth2]

But do you really think that there are not mulitple unknown HG copies of early ASM, Daredevil, X-Men and Avengers, etc. just waiting to surface and blow holes in the absurd, IMHO, multiples these issues are now getting b/c only a relative few have been certified and/or promoted for sale?

A ton 9.0 and higher copies already exist for the titles you're referring to. Marvels have the benefit of much broader demand, whereas DCs are driven mainly by supply constraints because the demand ain't very broad.

[esquirecomics]

But do you really think that there are not mulitple unknown HG copies of early ASM, Daredevil, X-Men and Avengers, etc. just waiting to surface and blow holes in the absurd, IMHO, multiples these issues are now getting b/c only a relative few have been certified and/or promoted for sale?

A ton 9.0 and higher copies already exist for the titles you're referring to. Marvels have the benefit of much broader demand, whereas DCs are driven mainly by supply constraints because the demand ain't very broad.

 

True, and I actually think that many people don't even realize the number that are known to exist. Of course, the DC vs. Marvel competition is true as well. Marvel was obviously essentially just starting out and so these were all new characters/teams while DC was primarily still producing the same old titles (and even characters) that existed from 20 years earlier. This is an oversimplification of course.

[Aman619]

Fantastic Four # 1

9.2 2 - One was stolen, the other is the White Mountain

9.0 1 - Doesn't exist, is now a 9.4

The fact that a 9.2 was stolen doesn't mean it doesn't exist for purposes of the census, no?

 

Bob, was the 9.0 FF 1 that you're saying is now a 9.4 the Slobodian copy?

 

yeah. I read that and went whoa too!

whats the story on that former 9.0?

and I remember teh stolen copy story. Isnt it MORE than stolen and generally presumed destroyed, not merely lost?

[tth2]

True, and I actually think that many people don't even realize the number that are known to exist.

Because it's largely irrelevant, Mark, unless the numbers shoot up significantly to warehouse type numbers (and even then, look at how much FF 48 still goes for). The market has incredible capacity to absorb a large number of 9.0+ X-Men 1s and ASM 1s without serious impact on the price, in my opinion.

[esquirecomics]

True, and I actually think that many people don't even realize the number that are known to exist.

Because it's largely irrelevant, Mark, unless the numbers shoot up significantly to warehouse type numbers (and even then, look at how much FF 48 still goes for). The market has incredible capacity to absorb a large number of 9.0+ X-Men 1s and ASM 1s without serious impact on the price, in my opinion.

 

Well, you may be right. I may be right. We'll only know as time goes by and we reassess the situation. There are many factors that impact this equation that go beyond the number of HG issues that may exist, such as the economy in general.

 

The issue that I and others had with Bob is, as usual, for whatever reason he simply comes across as a nasty, grumpy old man when he disagrees. I respect different opinions. And sometimes I respect more how those opinions are expressed.

[namisgr]

and I remember teh stolen copy story. Isnt it MORE than stolen and generally presumed destroyed, not merely lost?

 

Inquiring minds want to know the whole story behind the stolen high grade FF 1!