Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 24 24

[WernerVonDoom]

On 8/13/2024 at 7:24 PM, LordRahl said:

I too send in hundreds per year. When I can tell that one grader got one box and a different grader got another box, something is wrong. Same source, same pre-grader (namely me), same presser, one box will have 4 books not pass 9.8 prescreen and another will have 14 not pass (just an example on percentage failed). In some instances, the books came out of the same frikin case. I'm glad it's working out better than that for you but what I'm describing is the opposite of consistent   IMO.

I had the same experience with my last big order. Same batch of 50 books - two orders. Wildly different grading between the two. At least each box was consistent. lol.

[Ninja0215]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:27 PM, wiparker824 said:

Good one shaggy

[Dave616]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Part 2/2
I also cracked open a Werewolf by Night 31 CGC 9.4 (cert number 4426154018) which was graded on 28 May 2024. This was also cracked a few minutes ago and I took pics with my phone. The picture quality for some images is pretty bad so you will have to go with what I am saying for parts of this. 

- The inner well had the "u" bend where top and bottom curved upwards
- There is a cluster of tiny ticks in the middle of the spine
- I removed the inner well and immediately took a photo, and it shows that inner well is still bent 
- When I removed the comic from the inner well the comic itself was bent, but not to the same degree as when it was in the inner well 
- The ticks did not look as bad after removal from the inner well
 

Please note this is also a crack and resub for my PC.

 

So what you're saying is, it IS causing damage. Like many of us have stated. 

[Stefan_W]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:26 AM, Dave616 said:

So what you're saying is, it IS causing damage. Like many of us have stated. 

I guess if you want to redefine damage to include things that go back to normal two hours after being removed from the inner well (I posted pics here two hours after the post you are quoted). In my mind calling that damage is just as bad and inaccurate as CGC calling it normal, but whatever floats someone's boat. 

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:31 AM, Stefan_W said:

I guess if you want to redefine damage to include things that go back to normal two hours after being removed from the inner well (I posted pics here two hours after the post you are quoted). In my mind calling that damage is just as bad and inaccurate as CGC calling it normal, but whatever floats someone's boat. 

I cracked my book out and watched it for 2 hours.  The color breaks from the warping didn’t go away.  Did I do it wrong?

[Axelrod]

On 8/13/2024 at 8:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Part 2/2
I also cracked open a Werewolf by Night 31 CGC 9.4 (cert number 4426154018) which was graded on 28 May 2024. This was also cracked a few minutes ago and I took pics with my phone. The picture quality for some images is pretty bad so you will have to go with what I am saying for parts of this. 

- The inner well had the "u" bend where top and bottom curved upwards
- There is a cluster of tiny ticks in the middle of the spine
- I removed the inner well and immediately took a photo, and it shows that inner well is still bent 
- When I removed the comic from the inner well the comic itself was bent, but not to the same degree as when it was in the inner well 
- The ticks did not look as bad after removal from the inner well
 

Please note this is also a crack and resub for my PC.

 

Thank you for taking these.  The most telling thing about the pics for me is the seriously warped inner well after it's been removed from the outer case.  It just should never come out like that, right?  It looks like plastic that's been overheated and started to shrink and curl.  

[Stefan_W]

Just to summarize so it is not lost in the shuffle, after cracking cases and measuring the amount of bend possible, experimenting with bending books that amount (photos early in this thread), cracking a bunch of cases with bent inner wells (photos more recently in this thread), and taking pictures of books two hours after coming out of the cases (most recent photos in this thread), my take is:

- The books that in bent inner wells can looks worse especially if there are ticks along the middle of the spine

- When pulled out of the cases the inner wells stay bent

- When pulled out of the inner wells the books stay bend for a couple of hours before correcting 

- The books themselves go back to state they were in prior to encapsulation with no lasting damage 

CGC has said that the bend is normal. It is not, and I have cracked hundreds of books and only the more recent ones have that bend. My best guess is they are avoided language that could imply an obligation to do MEs on tens of thousands of slabbed comics. But beyond the public face there is an absolute need to work behind the scenes and fix this issue ASAP. 

Some in this thread have argued their books are damaged by the inner wells. I have seen no evidence of lasting damage, but ticks do look more pronounced especially (but not limited to) when they are in the middle of the book. The better, and unassailable, way of putting it is that the bends in the cases make their books look worse and a future press and reholder is needed to correct this. People pay hard earned money to make their books look as good as possible.  

[Stefan_W]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:45 AM, Axelrod said:

Thank you for taking these.  The most telling thing about the pics for me is the seriously warped inner well after it's been removed from the outer case.  It just should never come out like that, right?  It looks like plastic that's been overheated and started to shrink and curl.  

Yeah, when I consistently saw that it changed my mind about the mechanics behind what is causing the bend. I think heat may play a role aside from causing the vacuum inside of the case, but there is really no way for me to experiment and figure it all out without having all of the actual equipment handy. 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:48 AM, Stefan_W said:

Just to summarize so it is not lost in the shuffle, after cracking cases and measuring the amount of bend possible, experimenting with bending books that amount (photos early in this thread), cracking a bunch of cases with bent inner wells (photos more recently in this thread), and taking pictures of books two hours after coming out of the cases (most recent photos in this thread), my take is:

- The books that in bent inner wells can looks worse especially if there are ticks along the middle of the spine

- When pulled out of the cases the inner wells stay bent

- When pulled out of the inner wells the books stay bend for a couple of hours before correcting 

- The books themselves go back to state they were in prior to encapsulation with no lasting damage 

CGC has said that the bend is normal. It is not, and I have cracked hundreds of books and only the more recent ones have that bend. My best guess is they are avoided language that could imply an obligation to do MEs on tens of thousands of slabbed comics. But beyond the public face there is an absolute need to work behind the scenes and fix this issue ASAP. 

Some in this thread have argued their books are damaged by the inner wells. I have seen no evidence of lasting damage, but ticks do look more pronounced especially (but not limited to) when they are in the middle of the book. The better, and unassailable, way of putting it is that the bends in the cases make their books look worse and a future press and reholder is needed to correct this. People pay hard earned money to make their books look as good as possible.  

You keep telling people no lasting damage and no proof. Color breaks can’t revert back.  See attached.  

Pre warped = no color breaks

Post warp = at least 6 color breaks

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:55 AM, DanJD said:

You keep telling people no lasting damage and no proof. Color breaks can’t revert back.  See attached.  

Pre warped = no color breaks

Post warp = at least 6 color breaks

Also, that color break in the center caused by the warp is pretty wicked and extends far into the book.  How many hours should I let it sit out before that reverts back? 

Edited August 14 by DanJD

[Ninja0215]

So, I've been weighing the evidence presented by both sides of this on going argument. I se that this IS causing damage which is not okay by any standards. However, some books order seem to be less damaged than others. Whatever the case(hehe) this needs to be addressed; not by cgc mike but by Matt Nelson or people close to  him. I'm giving CGC this opportunity with my books to see what transpires. 

To whomever says CGC doesn't have any healthy competition; the answer is yes, they do. Not just the impending west coast operation. There is another grading company not bending inner wells and has a tougher case. So why not just use them? Because I've  found the positives in using both companies, like many other have. I like CGC and have had some positive experiences here but let's get it together. This isn't a hard fix and if it is, let us know . We are your business and it's no problem to take it elsewhere. 

 

My 2 cents . 

Edited August 14 by Ninja0215

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 8/14/2024 at 6:21 AM, Ninja0215 said:

So why not just use them?

[Ninja0215]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:45 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

They are out there, it's possible to send them to that lone star state because you don't mess with texas  

[Ninja0215]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:45 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

I'M SAILLLLLLING AWAAAYYYYYY!!!!!  something something something.....sea. lmao 

[Tec-Tac-Toe]

Ship sailed.

 

[GACollectibles]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:55 AM, DanJD said:

You keep telling people no lasting damage and no proof. Color breaks can’t revert back.  See attached.  

Pre warped = no color breaks

Post warp = at least 6 color breaks

If that book was cracked for signing the color breaks may not be a result of the curved well.

[LordRahl]

On 8/14/2024 at 5:43 AM, DanJD said:

I cracked my book out and watched it for 2 hours.  The color breaks from the warping didn’t go away.  Did I do it wrong?

The thing that is puzzling me is that this seems to affect moderns way more than vintage. I think you were the one that had a vintage sub that had a bent book, correct? That is the only one I've seen so far as 3 people have posted (including me) that their vintage subs were not affected. I just cracked out a silver age book last night that was graded 2 months ago and the well is as flat as a board. In CGC speak, the old normal, not the new normal. So why are vintage subs affected so much less than modern? And why can't CGC just start doing to moderns what they are doing with vintage?

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:22 AM, GACollectibles said:

If that book was cracked for signing the color breaks may not be a result of the curved well.

Except the original scan from after the signing that was already provided did not have all of this damage which is now permanent.  That after signing picture is post pressing as well.  People can keep trying to convince themselves and others everything is fine and to keep damaging books.  IMO if you are aware of the issue and keep submitting, the damage is your problem.  

[DanJD]

On 8/14/2024 at 10:45 AM, LordRahl said:

The thing that is puzzling me is that this seems to affect moderns way more than vintage. I think you were the one that had a vintage sub that had a bent book, correct? That is the only one I've seen so far as 3 people have posted (including me) that their vintage subs were not affected. I just cracked out a silver age book last night that was graded 2 months ago and the well is as flat as a board. In CGC speak, the old normal, not the new normal. So why are vintage subs affected so much less than modern? And why can't CGC just start doing to moderns what they are doing with vintage?

Yes.  My avengers 8 was warped, but again, it was graded a 4.5.  The spine was fairly soft already and you can’t even see the rippling on the cover.  But the spine from the side profile is bowed.