Is anyone else getting books back with warped inner wells? 24 24

[electricprune]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:42 PM, DanJD said:

I think the original poster was more asking about whether the inner well (not the book) laid flat out of the slab and then if so, what was the measurement to see if it’s larger than the outer slab can fit.

Correct. That’s what I was talking about, and I believe Yorick was too.

[Stefan_W]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:05 PM, electricprune said:

I wondered about this too. If anyone breaks out a warped inner well, please see if you can flatten it, measure it, and see how the measurements compare to the well size in the slab.

Honestly though, I would hope CGC would have done that already.

 

On 8/16/2024 at 2:16 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

some one cracked it and put in a bag and board it laid flat again after a couple of hours, I'm not suggesting this but replying that someone DID, so ask him? @Stefan_W

Yeah, I did all of that and posted about it with photos earlier in the thread. The books are initially bent coming out of the inner wells, but after a couple of hours in a bag and board they are flat again. I did those as a crack and resub and fully expect to get the same rates of grade bumps that I usually get. The books are not damaged but existing damages show more, which is still a massive issue that CGC needs to fix. 

Although I have cracked hundreds of slabs I have not measured inner wells across time. I do not see any changes to the outer case or inner well, but that does not mean those changes did not happen - I am just saying i did not see any changes and there was no reason to measure anything months ago. The change after the switcheroo scam was that the cases were sealed all the way around so my assumption (which I also outlined earlier in the thread) is that the source of the bend is due to heating up the glue, and then it cools and creates a vacuum causing the inner well to bend. I describe it as like canning when the top pops during cooling. If someone presents evidence that shows something else I am happy to change my mind on this but to date no one has. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:02 PM, Stefan_W said:

 

Yeah, I did all of that and posted about it with photos earlier in the thread. The books are initially bent coming out of the inner wells, but after a couple of hours in a bag and board they are flat again. I did those as a crack and resub and fully expect to get the same rates of grade bumps that I usually get. The books are not damaged but existing damages show more, which is still a massive issue that CGC needs to fix. 

Although I have cracked hundreds of slabs I have not measured inner wells across time. I do not see any changes to the outer case or inner well, but that does not mean those changes did not happen - I am just saying i did not see any changes and there was no reason to measure anything months ago. The change after the switcheroo scam was that the cases were sealed all the way around so my assumption (which I also outlined earlier in the thread) is that the source of the bend is due to heating up the glue, and then it cools and creates a vacuum causing the inner well to bend. I describe it as like canning when the top pops during cooling. If someone presents evidence that shows something else I am happy to change my mind on this but to date no one has. 

Ah I didn't realize there were measurements in that post? only an eventual flattening, but you measure the inner well and all that? then I'll go back and quote and tag electric prune  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/13/2024 at 7:13 PM, Stefan_W said:

Part 1/2
I have cracked open a few books with bent inner wells and I am finding the same thing every time. With the goal of sharing with those who are here looking for info, here is what I saw with a Werewolf by Night 9 CGC 9.4 (cert number 4426121019) which was graded on 5 June 2024. I just cracked this open a few minutes ago and took some pictures. Apologies that some of the pictures suck but it is hard to get good images with my phone. It is especially hard to take good pics of ticks so you will have to partly go with my description. 

Please note this book was purchased as a crack and resub that will eventually go into my PC. I will post the grade after a press and resubmit down the road if I remember to do so. 

- The inner well had the "u" bend where top and bottom curved upwards
- There was a pronounced tick at the bottom of the top staple (circled in image)
- When you look up the cert number that tick is no where near as pronounced
- I removed the inner well and immediately took a photo, and it shows that inner well is still bent 
- When I removed the comic from the inner well the comic itself was bent, but not to the same degree as when it was in the inner well 
- After removal from the inner well the tick at the bottom of the top staple reverted to looking more like what is in the cert lookup photo, and was far less pronounced than when the book was in the inner well. 

 

 

On 8/13/2024 at 7:14 PM, Stefan_W said:

Part 2/2
I also cracked open a Werewolf by Night 31 CGC 9.4 (cert number 4426154018) which was graded on 28 May 2024. This was also cracked a few minutes ago and I took pics with my phone. The picture quality for some images is pretty bad so you will have to go with what I am saying for parts of this. 

- The inner well had the "u" bend where top and bottom curved upwards
- There is a cluster of tiny ticks in the middle of the spine
- I removed the inner well and immediately took a photo, and it shows that inner well is still bent 
- When I removed the comic from the inner well the comic itself was bent, but not to the same degree as when it was in the inner well 
- The ticks did not look as bad after removal from the inner well
 

Please note this is also a crack and resub for my PC.

 

I didn't remember measurements like you asked @electricprune but here are the summary posts  

[Stefan_W]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:40 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Ah I didn't realize there were measurements in that post? only an eventual flattening, but you measure the inner well and all that? then I'll go back and quote and tag electric prune  

I did not measure the length of the inner well so no measurements in that post. I have nothing to compare it to since previous inner wells and cases all went into the recycling bin after cracking slabs. If you go way back in this thread I did measure the amount of room on the inside of the case for the inner well to bow, which serves as the max amount of the bow. I also measured how much bend it takes to create damage to books. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:52 PM, Stefan_W said:

I did not measure the length of the inner well so no measurements in that post. I have nothing to compare it to since previous inner wells and cases all went into the recycling bin after cracking slabs. If you go way back in this thread I did measure the amount of room on the inside of the case for the inner well to bow, which serves as the max amount of the bow. I also measured how much bend it takes to create damage to books. 

Would be helpful if you did since you may know the posts whereabouts, but I'll look when I have time...

Just trying to help. 🙏 

[Stefan_W]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:53 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

Would be helpful if you did since you may know the posts whereabouts, but I'll look when I have time...

Just trying to help. 🙏 

Thank you for pushing those posts with info up!

I can start measuring inner wells from older and newer slabs to see if there is a difference - have a mix in the next group I am cracking next week. 

[DanJD]

This seems like a setup…conveniently pushing fake facts to the top of the thread with no actually discussion of the measurements that were asked about.  Ha.  Should we all repost again the old photos of damaged books from the inner wells?  

[MAY1979]

On 8/16/2024 at 1:35 PM, DanJD said:

Keep seeing people post their “Mail Calls” on social media, and just looking at the spines of these new “9.8s” with all the color breaks, you can tell the inner wells are warped.  Either that or the graders have lost their minds.  People are just excited about the grade. I guess a real fear becomes that CGC starts accepting all these color breaks as 9.8s to save face on these warped inner wells and to avoid paying out on damages.  At least 8 full months and counting of this going on.  I guess 9.0-9.4s are the new 9.8s.

Collectors will not care about slab weight nor how it fits on dealers convention selling wall. What they will care about is accurate grading and getting the condition for which they have paid, and that the book is protected.  

Edited August 16 by MAR1979

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:26 PM, DanJD said:

This seems like a setup…conveniently pushing fake facts to the top of the thread with no actually discussion of the measurements that were asked about.  Ha.  Should we all repost again the old photos of damaged books from the inner wells?  

If you have them post them? I said I didn't remember them being posted and asked for them myself from the only likely source just as @electricprune asked?

Further than that if you'd like me to stop bumping the thread I'm cool with that, I'll just assume it's more screaming to the wind then?

[Stefan_W]

Here is an experiment that I figured would not work, but I tried it anyway. I took 5 slabs that all have bends in the inner well and laid them flat backside down for 24 hours, and frontside down for 24 hours. No appreciable change to the bend.

The premise was that books flattened a short while after being removed from the inner well and laid flat in a bag and board. I realized that the hard inner well would likely prevent the books from straightening, but I tried it anyway since there are very few things we can try with the entire case sealed shut. 

Providing photo documentation in case anyone is interested. Photo 1 is before, the second photo is after. I just realized that one of the photos turned for some reason - apologies, I hate I-phone pics because of this! 

I will provide photos will inner well measurements for different ages of slabs in a few days. 

 

[ADAMANTIUM]

you offer nothing to help and only complain.

I see an opportunity to help 

and "I'm the conspiracy"

On 8/16/2024 at 3:38 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

If you have them post them? I said I didn't remember them being posted and asked for them myself from the only likely source just as @electricprune asked?

Further than that if you'd like me to stop bumping the thread I'm cool with that, I'll just assume it's more screaming to the wind then?

I've got more things to worry about with things at cgc myself and fix to happen, than to imagine screaming for literal pages on end since the last constructive help was brushed off, and went for more pages with the same old complaining. The 1st I asked for dimensions same as the other boardie hoping for constructive, was met with the same off the handle dissatisfaction and usurped reading of my text. If you think y'all control this thread from constructive posts?

Mine wasn't even a criticism but a general inquiry made more specific.

In short good luck with your locked threads and wondering what happened like Lucy just came home. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:43 PM, Stefan_W said:

Here is an experiment that I figured would not work, but I tried it anyway. I took 5 slabs that all have bends in the inner well and laid them flat backside down for 24 hours, and frontside down for 24 hours. No appreciable change to the bend.

The premise was that books flattened a short while after being removed from the inner well and laid flat in a bag and board. I realized that the hard inner well would likely prevent the books from straightening, but I tried it anyway since there are very few things we can try with the entire case sealed shut. 

Providing photo documentation in case anyone is interested. Photo 1 is before, the second photo is after. I just realized that one of the photos turned for some reason - apologies, I hate I-phone pics because of this! 

I will provide photos will inner well measurements for different ages of slabs in a few days. 

 

aint no body got time for that  you will do it now, the complainers want justice not mercy, and we want it yesterday, I'd move this to a pm to avoid further usurping of your dastardly deeds!

[DanJD]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:44 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

you offer nothing to help and only complain.

I see an opportunity to help 

and "I'm the conspiracy"

I've got more things to worry about with things at cgc myself and fix to happen, than to imagine screaming for literal pages on end since the last constructive help was brushed off, and went for more pages with the same old complaining. The 1st I asked for dimensions same as the other boardie hoping for constructive, was met with the same off the handle dissatisfaction and usurped reading of my text. If you think y'all control this thread from constructive posts?

Mine wasn't even a criticism but a general inquiry made more specific.

In short good luck with your locked threads and wondering what happened like Lucy just came home. 

You didn’t bump a thread with the measurements asked though.  You bumped the thread that is actively trying to downplay the damages we have suffered.  It’s not my job to find a solution.  That’s CGCs job.  My goal is to simply make others aware of the issue and potential damage to their books.

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:47 PM, DanJD said:

You didn’t bump a thread with the measurements asked though.  You bumped the thread that is actively trying to downplay the damages we have suffered.  It’s not my job to find a solution.  That’s CGCs job.  My goal is to simply make others aware of the issue and potential damage to their books.

by attacking anyone else who posts get real jack, I was on your side, now I hate that I'm on your side stuck with a wagon.

[Stefan_W]

On 8/16/2024 at 4:44 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

you offer nothing to help and only complain.

I see an opportunity to help 

and "I'm the conspiracy"

I've got more things to worry about with things at cgc myself and fix to happen, than to imagine screaming for literal pages on end since the last constructive help was brushed off, and went for more pages with the same old complaining. The 1st I asked for dimensions same as the other boardie hoping for constructive, was met with the same off the handle dissatisfaction and usurped reading of my text. If you think y'all control this thread from constructive posts?

Mine wasn't even a criticism but a general inquiry made more specific.

In short good luck with your locked threads and wondering what happened like Lucy just came home. 

Best to use the ignore liberally when it comes to threads like this and remember that a few people who are looking for information about their bent inner well are still likely to come here, and it is a good idea to provide whatever evidence is out there. 

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:48 PM, Stefan_W said:

Best to use the ignore liberally when it comes to threads like this and remember that a few people who are looking for information about their bent inner well are still likely to come here, and it is a good idea to provide whatever evidence is out there. 

But I bought a tin foil hat and everything! 

I know I know we're all on edge, I could cool it too

But that was the 1st in a long time when I've been projected at the center of a conspiracy haha

Anyway, I haven't cracked anything and haven't posted that I had to have any info like that available,  so idk why it was expected me too, I haven't even hinted.

Given you have, thanks for the mercy to respond and even offer up any opportunities  others thought it interesting hence the questions, even if we all including you think it is an issue! To what degree an issue is conspiracy yelling imo, but we can't all come together without breaking a fe eggs.

I apologize 

[DanJD]

On 8/16/2024 at 3:48 PM, ADAMANTIUM said:

by attacking anyone else who posts get real jack, I was on your side, now I hate that I'm on your side stuck with a wagon.

Yeah.  I apologize @ADAMANTIUM.  Maybe I misread the context of your posts, but all it did was start another discussion by @Stefan_W trying to convince others it’s not damaging books with new photos and comments that mean nothing.  My point has been made.  People can read the thread and make an educated decision for their own books.  This is supposed to be a fun hobby, and this warped inner well has turned it negative. I’ll check in on the thread just to see if someone posts whether this has been resolved.  Good luck with the collecting all.  

[ADAMANTIUM]

On 8/16/2024 at 4:04 PM, DanJD said:

Yeah.  I apologize @ADAMANTIUM.  Maybe I misread the context of your posts, but all it did was start another discussion by @Stefan_W trying to convince others it’s not damaging books with new photos and comments that mean nothing.  My point has been made.  People can read the thread and make an educated decision for their own books.  This is supposed to be a fun hobby, and this warped inner well has turned it negative. I’ll check in on the thread just to see if someone posts whether this has been resolved.  Good luck with the collecting all.  

Well said, but don't go on my account, we've all been there and no worries. @DanJD

[ADAMANTIUM]

A reason to know the dimensions is 

1) someone else asked and it brings more eyes with new info to then ask more questions of cgc when calling emailing and etc.

2) in a perfect world if it was proven faulty but also how, it would give the community something to latch onto and show cgc, like doing research. Cgc may be "doing something now" but we have no proof, and being proactive helps deal with the tension displayed here.

All of it is an issue, but some don't have the reasons whether financially or otherwise to just stop sending to cgc. 

Unfortunately.

I'm not in that boat so they can do what is necessary, but they still would like it resolved I'm sure, just to have others and themselves resolved to send in again 

Edited August 16 by ADAMANTIUM