Bidding on your own auction 8 8

[MAR1979]

On 7/2/2024 at 6:51 PM, Uff_Da said:

Sure did, and he didn't think it was any big deal 

 

Dude has well over $200 Million in Comic Art still he resorts to that, over what to him is mere penny ante stuff. Disgusting.

Edited Wednesday at 01:13 AM by MAR1979

[Chip Cataldo]

On 7/2/2024 at 8:33 PM, MAR1979 said:

Dude has well over $200 Million in Comic Art still he resorts to that, over what to him is mere penny ante stuff. Disgusting.

Homer - "Gee, Mister Burns...you're the richest guy I know."
Burns - "Yes, but I'd give it all for a little more."

[thehumantorch]

On 6/28/2024 at 12:57 PM, techtre2003 said:

Scenario 1: You see a book on ebay you want that's at $40 so you put in a $100 max bid. You wind up winning the auction for $50.
Seller messages you and says, "hey, I really wanted $80 for that book so I'll need an extra $30 or I'll cancel the auction". 
 

Scenario 2: Seller has a book on ebay that he wants $80 out of. The bid is only at $50 with a couple of minutes left so he puts in a $75 shill bid and luckily there is a higher bidder so it gets bumped to $80 and ends there.

I don't think anyone here would say scenario 1 is ok but it sounds like scenario 2 would be acceptable to some. Same outcome on both, you were willing to pay up to $100 and only ended up paying $80. The difference, in my opinion, is that in scenario 1 the seller was being upfront with their shadiness; in scenario 2 the seller kept their shadiness hidden behind the scenes. 

 

Both would be unacceptable and both would be unethical.

 

[SeniorSurfer]

On 6/27/2024 at 2:21 PM, ThothAmon said:

From what I understand auction houses sometimes make guarantees to consignors to entice them to auction specific pieces. The auction house obviously believing the piece will sell for more than the guarantee. Is the ethics different if the auction house itself, and not the consignor/owner, bids the item up to an acceptable price, willing to add the piece to their own inventory if their guarantee was overly optimistic.   Ask yourself, how do the motivations of the other bidders really matter?

As others have noted, if the auction house does indeed practice this "business model," I'd like to see it easier to find on their rules.  I don't expect it would be plastered in large letters but I'd not want to need a microscope to find it either.

I've had two incidents in the last few years where the end winning bid was right at my highest bid.  The first one I was bidding "live" and had some back/forth with other bidders (one would assume) so it was/could have been the usual scenario.  The second involved my putting in a higher amount and leaving as I could not be there at the end.  When I tuned in one last time with about an hour to go I was just a couple of hundred away from being outbid, and since I really wanted the book at the condition offered I upped the "hidden" bid to not lose it for a few hundred.  I did add a very specific, very odd dollar amount that would have taken into account a snipe for the usual round figures within budgetary range, but darn if it didn't go the distance at the very last second with every single penny of my odd amount consumed.  I mean... it could have been legit, but usually when some other "real" person wants it they will overshoot by a bunch, which will then cause their winning bid to have their own odd ending figures.  But to precisely guess my hidden amount and bid with such accuracy in one final swoop that it wasn't surpassed but completely used?  As I said, it could have been legit but...but... it could also be sour grapes that I didn't get it at the lower cost or have had at least $3-8 left over.  I mean leave me some bus fare at least.

 

[DanJD]

An individual bidding it up doesn’t matter to me.  Sure I would like it cheaper, but I bid based on what I am willing to pay regardless.  The shady part IMO is if an auction house knows what my max bid is and shill bids it to right below my max.  I don’t even know if that’s possible or happening.  If it does, that’s manipulation and shady.  

[Funnybooks]

On 7/3/2024 at 8:09 AM, DanJD said:

An individual bidding it up doesn’t matter to me.  Sure I would like it cheaper, but I bid based on what I am willing to pay regardless.  The shady part IMO is if an auction house knows what my max bid is and shill bids it to right below my max.  I don’t even know if that’s possible or happening.  If it does, that’s manipulation and shady.  

In your scenario, If your max bid is what you're willing to pay regardless, what should it matter how it get's there? Via shill bidding by the consignor, shill bidding via a friend/associate or via the auction house itself.

Edited Wednesday at 12:26 PM by Funnybooks

[Uff_Da]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:58 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

As others have noted, if the auction house does indeed practice this "business model," I'd like to see it easier to find on their rules. 

It's the reason NP Gresham has lived in Texas these past 25 years 😆 

 

[DanJD]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:18 AM, Funnybooks said:

In your scenario, If your max bid is what you're willing to pay regardless, what should it matter how it get's there? Via shill bidding by the consignor, shill bidding via a friend/associate or via the auction house itself.

Knowing non-public information behind the scenes and using it to their advantage is what makes it shady to me. Blindly bidding it up with the risk of busting and having to start over and incur costs seems to be a balance IMO.  I would not do either though if selling.

[Gaard]

There's quite a difference between what I am willing to pay and what I should've paid. Let's say I'm willing to go to $200 for a particular comic. I would've won it for $100 if not for some shenanigans by the seller or auction house. I really don't understand how people can say that I should be ok with it because I was willing to pay what I ended up paying.

[Lightning55]

On 7/3/2024 at 5:20 PM, Gaard said:

There's quite a difference between what I am willing to pay and what I should've paid. Let's say I'm willing to go to $200 for a particular comic. I would've won it for $100 if not for some shenanigans by the seller or auction house. I really don't understand how people can say that I should be ok with it because I was willing to pay what I ended up paying.

It's ok for them, because they are getting more of your money by "influencing" the bid price.

It's a rigged game, if not strictly regulated.

[dupont2005]

On 6/26/2024 at 6:02 PM, shadroch said:

I'm not sure what ethics has to do with it.  

Suppose I consign a book to Auctionsareus.  I agree to a 10% consignment fee. It's a $500 book but everyone is sleeping and it is at $50 with one minute left.  I bid $70 and no one tops it. I pay the $70, the auction house gets it's $7 commission and I don't lose hundreds on the sale.  I have a contract with the auction house and honored it.  What contract or obligation do I owe the other potential buyers?

List it for $500

[WolverineX]

On 6/28/2024 at 2:35 PM, misterrmystery said:

I am currently selling my collection through Heritage. Their program does not allow you to bid on your own items. If I'm following the auction that my items are in, when my item comes up, it says "your consignment" and disables bidding on that item. Of course that could be defeated if you have a friend bid up the item which would be dishonest. Some of my items have done beyond expectations and others disappointing but all in all, it evens out.

@NP_Gresham  will be your friend

[ttfitz]

On 7/3/2024 at 7:58 AM, SeniorSurfer said:

The second involved my putting in a higher amount and leaving as I could not be there at the end.  When I tuned in one last time with about an hour to go I was just a couple of hundred away from being outbid, and since I really wanted the book at the condition offered I upped the "hidden" bid to not lose it for a few hundred.  I did add a very specific, very odd dollar amount that would have taken into account a snipe for the usual round figures within budgetary range, but darn if it didn't go the distance at the very last second with every single penny of my odd amount consumed.  I mean... it could have been legit, but usually when some other "real" person wants it they will overshoot by a bunch, which will then cause their winning bid to have their own odd ending figures.  But to precisely guess my hidden amount and bid with such accuracy in one final swoop that it wasn't surpassed but completely used?  As I said, it could have been legit but...but... it could also be sour grapes that I didn't get it at the lower cost or have had at least $3-8 left over.

You don't say where this was, but if it was eBay or a site that works similarly, there is a possible explanation which would be less nefarious.

Let's say for example, your "hidden" bid was $1073.32, and the bid increment - at that level - was $100. If someone placed a later bid than you for a quite normal $1000, you having the earlier higher bid, would win, even though you didn't bid more than the next bid increment from the underbidder.

[SeniorSurfer]

On 7/4/2024 at 12:18 AM, ttfitz said:

You don't say where this was, but if it was eBay or a site that works similarly, there is a possible explanation which would be less nefarious.

Let's say for example, your "hidden" bid was $1073.32, and the bid increment - at that level - was $100. If someone placed a later bid than you for a quite normal $1000, you having the earlier higher bid, would win, even though you didn't bid more than the next bid increment from the underbidder.

It was CLink and it was a five-figure total, which makes for more random digits in the equation to hazard a correct under-guess.  My usual experience is someone(s) just places a wad and leaves me in the dust, inheriting a rather strange ending bid total.  Still, I left the possibility open for it being a legit ending and as you note, there's a good possibility there's nothing to it.