PSA To Grade Comics In 2025 8 8

[MAY1979]

^ Agreed. CBCS will have no niches left. CGCs parent should purchase them for their superior slab tech and patents. 

[LordRahl]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:11 AM, trademarkcomics said:

Late to the party but my  : The color red is death in professional comic book grading labels. If CGC (and CBCS) has proved anything over the years; color matters. At this point, I doubt CGC is worried about this much.

The death knell had been sounded for CBCS, however. First, CGC offers authenticated signatures, now this...

Why?

[aardvark88]

On 8/2/2024 at 9:12 AM, LordRahl said:

Why?

Good Bob Storms speaks about PSA comic slabs, red color labels, Richie Evans, and CC/Metro's SDCC market report:

 

[godzilla43]

Richard from Bedrock was not too excited about PSA grading

Jeff dumping his Hulk 181s. I thought that movie would help the book but these sales seems low

https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Incredible-Hulk-181-CGC-7-0-White-Pages-Wolverine-1st-Appearance/166891238835?nordt=true&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2349526.m43663.l10137

Edited August 5 by godzilla43

[MAY1979]

On 8/4/2024 at 11:35 PM, aardvark88 said:

Good Bob Storms speaks about PSA comic slabs, red color labels, Richie Evans, and CC/Metro's SDCC market report:

 

I recall Bob and others like him being dead set against CGG for multiple years at the start. They will waffle and flip flop on their opinions if the marketplace shows even a hint of being kind to PSA. 

Edited August 5 by MAR1979

[LordRahl]

On 8/4/2024 at 8:35 PM, aardvark88 said:

Good Bob Storms speaks about PSA comic slabs, red color labels, Richie Evans, and CC/Metro's SDCC market report:

 

While Bob's perspective is educational, it's irrelevant to 99.9% of the slab consumer base. It's the perspective of a convention dealer. How many of those are there? A few hundred? The vast majority of slab sales happen online, where you don't have to read the label from 20 feet away and the weight of the slab itself is irrelevant past having to pay an extra buck for shipping.

Every point he makes is secondary to the things that will matter to everyone, not just the few hundred convention dealers that exist. That being, a slab that doesn't damage the very thing it's meant to protect, consistent grading and cost to slab. If PSA can beat CGC on those 3 things, the tens of thousands of people that buy slabs aren't going to care that the weight of the slabs will bring down Bob's convention rack.

[Stefan_W]

On 8/5/2024 at 10:13 AM, LordRahl said:

While Bob's perspective is educational, it's irrelevant to 99.9% of the slab consumer base. It's the perspective of a convention dealer. How many of those are there? A few hundred? The vast majority of slab sales happen online, where you don't have to read the label from 20 feet away and the weight of the slab itself is irrelevant past having to pay an extra buck for shipping.

Every point he makes is secondary to the things that will matter to everyone, not just the few hundred convention dealers that exist. That being, a slab that doesn't damage the very thing it's meant to protect, consistent grading and cost to slab. If PSA can beat CGC on those 3 things, the tens of thousands of people that buy slabs aren't going to care that the weight of the slabs will bring down Bob's convention rack.

While most people are not going to set up a table at shows, I do think resale matters a great deal. In the current market CGC graded comics do sell for, and sell faster, more regardless of whether you move on from them on Ebay or other means. So I would add a 4th thing to your list - resale value.

Bob can buy a tougher stand (he should anyway if this is a concern), but people will vote with their wallets in terms of how well the slabs are accepted.  

[LordRahl]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:30 AM, Stefan_W said:

While most people are not going to set up a table at shows, I do think resale matters a great deal. In the current market CGC graded comics do sell for, and sell faster, more regardless of whether you move on from them on Ebay or other means. So I would add a 4th thing to your list - resale value.

Bob can buy a tougher stand (he should anyway if this is a concern), but people will vote with their wallets in terms of how well the slabs are accepted.  

You are 100% correct that resale value will matter. I guess in my mind, if they grade consistently and have a superior slab that doesn't damage books, the resale value will take care of itself. But you are correct that it will be a major determining factor in PSA's success... or lack thereof.

[wiparker824]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:13 AM, LordRahl said:

While Bob's perspective is educational, it's irrelevant to 99.9% of the slab consumer base. It's the perspective of a convention dealer. How many of those are there? A few hundred? The vast majority of slab sales happen online, where you don't have to read the label from 20 feet away and the weight of the slab itself is irrelevant past having to pay an extra buck for shipping.

Every point he makes is secondary to the things that will matter to everyone, not just the few hundred convention dealers that exist. That being, a slab that doesn't damage the very thing it's meant to protect, consistent grading and cost to slab. If PSA can beat CGC on those 3 things, the tens of thousands of people that buy slabs aren't going to care that the weight of the slabs will bring down Bob's convention rack.

Yes but a lot of people who buy slabs even online do so to display them on a wall in a comic room or their office or whatever. They also like Bob want something that is aesthetically pleasing and easy to discern without being right on top of the comic. And Bob’s point did make me think about PSA probably coming from the card world where dealers typically have their slabs in cases or tables in front of them vs. comic cons where dealers big books are on walls behind them.

Of course PSA doesn’t have to, but I truly hope they take the feedback on the cosmetics and make some changes pre launch even if it means the labels don’t look like their “brand” they established in the sports card world exactly. I don’t have a dog in this race, I do think however having multiple competitive dogs in the race is healthier than not. So I’d like to see them have some success out of the gate but I do think the label is going to hurt that more than many people on this board believe. Particularly when you’re talking about people sending in $30-$50 books to be slabbed which happens a lot more than Action 1’s. For those people the eye appeal is going to matter a lot. In the case of the people sending in the more high dollar books none of this matters, it’s simply to @Stefan_W point the value on the secondary market. Very few are going to put a massive key in any company’s slab if the same book in a CGC slab holds 10-15% more in value in resale (the problem for CGC’s primary current competitor). This one is a lot harder to nail than the label redesign though which is a layup if they want it.

 

[Chip Cataldo]

It's all just a blip in the comic collecting hobby as a whole, anyway.

95% of collectors won't give a crepe.

[LordRahl]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:03 PM, wiparker824 said:

Yes but a lot of people who buy slabs even online do so to display them on a wall in a comic room or their office or whatever. They also like Bob want something that is aesthetically pleasing and easy to discern without being right on top of the comic. And Bob’s point did make me think about PSA probably coming from the card world where dealers typically have their slabs in cases or tables in front of them vs. comic cons where dealers big books are on walls behind them.

Of course PSA doesn’t have to, but I truly hope they take the feedback on the cosmetics and make some changes pre launch even if it means the labels don’t look like their “brand” they established in the sports card world exactly. I don’t have a dog in this race, I do think however having multiple competitive dogs in the race is healthier than not. So I’d like to see them have some success out of the gate but I do think the label is going to hurt that more than many people on this board believe. Particularly when you’re talking about people sending in $30-$50 books to be slabbed which happens a lot more than Action 1’s. For those people the eye appeal is going to matter a lot. In the case of the people sending in the more high dollar books none of this matters, it’s simply to @Stefan_W point the value on the secondary market. Very few are going to put a massive key in any company’s slab if the same book in a CGC slab holds 10-15% more in value in resale (the problem for CGC’s primary current competitor). This one is a lot harder to nail than the label redesign though which is a layup if they want it.

 

I'm not saying that aesthetics don't matter. I am however saying that they are secondary to a couple of things that are a priority over aesthetics. Things like having a holder that isn't actively damaging the book inside and consistent grading. Things that CGC is currently botching. Their grading the last couple of years has been comically inconsistent and now the warped inner well thing. The LAST thing any grading company should want is the perception that their product is damaging the collectible being graded. That perception is going to be hard to shake if it continues to perpetuate. It honestly doesn't even matter how many books are actually being damaged by the warped wells... perception is reality. If the market starts to believe that CGC slabs are damaging books, the exodus will be swift. 

[Mmehdy]

I held in my hand the PSA slab, talked to main grader/slab creator and his boss at SDCC.   Here is my take based up 50+ years in the hobby.

1-CGC has nothing to worry about they will remain #1 grader for serious collectors and serious comics. There will be a significant loss of value putting a book in that holder that is valued above $250....ok $50, $100 so you get 5 buck less when flipping. No dealer or serious collector will use them more than one time.

2- the heavy slab does not make it better, in fact it makes it worse. I am not buying a plastic tomb which if it drops on my foot it will break it. Come onl...trying to outdo CGC they are shooting themselves in the foot and by the way there are TWO  slabs one is even heavier.....really school  yard  stuff here the way there were bragging about it. Bigger, heavier does not mean better....just look at the pic.

3- the label looks like something you would buy at a grocery stock meat department....you know impossible to read from away and they easy to misread when you get sticker shock at the grocery check line. Red....really....Red...the company color  line is more important than resale value or perception from a mile away when looking at a dealers wall.  After a dealer takes a year to sell that book....look for great repeat business 

4-they have not track record when it comes to comic book grading, and they go out and hire this guy from the other company...and look where they are now on utla high end $ books % in a HA auction....wow.....They will take the biggest market share from the other guy and #3 if they are still around.

CGC if hard act to follow, and after looking at what PSA is throwing at them....CGC is the Man.

[MrBedrock]

On 8/5/2024 at 2:59 PM, Mmehdy said:

CGC is the Man.

Have you seen Matt Nelson?

[LordRahl]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:59 PM, Mmehdy said:

I held in my hand the PSA slab, talked to main grader/slab creator and his boss at SDCC.   Here is my take based up 50+ years in the hobby.

1-CGC has nothing to worry about they will remain #1 grader for serious collectors and serious comics. There will be a significant loss of value putting a book in that holder that is valued above $250....ok $50, $100 so you get 5 buck less when flipping. No dealer or serious collector will use them more than one time.

2- the heavy slab does not make it better, in fact it makes it worse. I am not buying a plastic tomb which if it drops on my foot it will break it. Come onl...trying to outdo CGC they are shooting themselves in the foot and by the way there are TWO  slabs one is even heavier.....really school  yard  stuff here the way there were bragging about it. Bigger, heavier does not mean better....just look at the pic.

3- the label looks like something you would buy at a grocery stock meat department....you know impossible to read from away and they easy to misread when you get sticker shock at the grocery check line. Red....really....Red...the company color  line is more important than resale value or perception from a mile away when looking at a dealers wall.  After a dealer takes a year to sell that book....look for great repeat business 

4-they have not track record when it comes to comic book grading, and they go out and hire this guy from the other company...and look where they are now on utla high end $ books % in a HA auction....wow.....They will take the biggest market share from the other guy and #3 if they are still around.

CGC if hard act to follow, and after looking at what PSA is throwing at them....CGC is the Man.

Well if those 5lb slabs will prevent this type of nonsense, I think I'll take that trade off... broken foot and all.

 

[Ryan.]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:23 PM, MrBedrock said:

Have you seen Matt Nelson?

I wish you were more forthcoming on your feelings towards PSA's head grader.

[Bumble Kitty]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:59 PM, Mmehdy said:

I held in my hand the PSA slab, talked to main grader/slab creator and his boss at SDCC.   Here is my take based up 50+ years in the hobby.

1-CGC has nothing to worry about they will remain #1 grader for serious collectors and serious comics. There will be a significant loss of value putting a book in that holder that is valued above $250....ok $50, $100 so you get 5 buck less when flipping. No dealer or serious collector will use them more than one time.

2- the heavy slab does not make it better, in fact it makes it worse. I am not buying a plastic tomb which if it drops on my foot it will break it. Come onl...trying to outdo CGC they are shooting themselves in the foot and by the way there are TWO  slabs one is even heavier.....really school  yard  stuff here the way there were bragging about it. Bigger, heavier does not mean better....just look at the pic.

3- the label looks like something you would buy at a grocery stock meat department....you know impossible to read from away and they easy to misread when you get sticker shock at the grocery check line. Red....really....Red...the company color  line is more important than resale value or perception from a mile away when looking at a dealers wall.  After a dealer takes a year to sell that book....look for great repeat business 

4-they have not track record when it comes to comic book grading, and they go out and hire this guy from the other company...and look where they are now on utla high end $ books % in a HA auction....wow.....They will take the biggest market share from the other guy and #3 if they are still around.

CGC if hard act to follow, and after looking at what PSA is throwing at them....CGC is the Man.

I also talked to the PSA folks at SDCC and I closely inspected the PSA holder.  It is about one inch wider and half an inch taller than the CGC slab (and the PGX slab and the CBCS slab).  So, the PSA slab will NOT fit into the CGC boxes or the Hot Flips slab boxes.  Like it or not, the current slab size is the standard.  When I pointed this out to the PSA rep, he told me I could manufacture a new line of cardboard slab boxes.  My reaction was one of disbelief.  

The holder is noticeably heavier than CGC (and PGX and CBCS) slabs.  I pointed out that shipping costs will be higher.  His response was I could always use ground shipping to keep costs down.  OK.  Wow.

The rep said the heavier slab was designed to keep it from damage if it is dropped.  I asked if the comic book itself is safe from SCS if it is dropped.  He didn't answer my question.

I asked if I wanted to open the slab and remove the comic book, how would I do that.  Again, I got no answer.

I asked about the label, as the writing was a bit small, and I had to use my reading glasses to see it.  I was holding the PGA slab in my hand.  He told me it was preliminary and there might be changes.  I did not mention the color or the font type.

So, this was BEFORE I found out Mark Wilson was the head grader.  They are putting the fox in charge of the hen house.  I will NEVER use PSA and I will NEVER buy a comic book in a PSA holder because I have NO confidence in the ethics of the grading team.

PSA had a very good booth at SDCC and they poured money into this display.  Unfortunately, if one pulls away the facade, there are serious deficiencies.  This is a shame, as I believe competition is good for the industry and good for us, the consumer.  If I was CGC, I would not be worried about PSA.

[Nazirite]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:11 PM, Bumble Kitty said:

I also talked to the PSA folks at SDCC and I closely inspected the PSA holder.  It is about one inch wider and half an inch taller than the CGC slab (and the PGX slab and the CBCS slab).  So, the PSA slab will NOT fit into the CGC boxes or the Hot Flips slab boxes.  Like it or not, the current slab size is the standard.  When I pointed this out to the PSA rep, he told me I could manufacture a new line of cardboard slab boxes.  My reaction was one of disbelief.  

The holder is noticeably heavier than CGC (and PGX and CBCS) slabs.  I pointed out that shipping costs will be higher.  His response was I could always use ground shipping to keep costs down.  OK.  Wow.

The rep said the heavier slab was designed to keep it from damage if it is dropped.  I asked if the comic book itself is safe from SCS if it is dropped.  He didn't answer my question.

I asked if I wanted to open the slab and remove the comic book, how would I do that.  Again, I got no answer.

I asked about the label, as the writing was a bit small, and I had to use my reading glasses to see it.  I was holding the PGA slab in my hand.  He told me it was preliminary and there might be changes.  I did not mention the color or the font type.

So, this was BEFORE I found out Mark Wilson was the head grader.  They are putting the fox in charge of the hen house.  I will NEVER use PSA and I will NEVER buy a comic book in a PSA holder because I have NO confidence in the ethics of the grading team.

PSA had a very good booth at SDCC and they poured money into this display.  Unfortunately, if one pulls away the facade, there are serious deficiencies.  This is a shame, as I believe competition is good for the industry and good for us, the consumer.  If I was CGC, I would not be worried about PSA.

What’s the 411 on Mark Wilson?

[OJ Pimpson]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:30 PM, Nazirite said:

What’s the 411 on Mark Wilson?

Yes, please elaborate, I’ve heard that some people feel he is untrustworthy but I’ve never heard further details

[Bumble Kitty]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:30 PM, Nazirite said:

What’s the 411 on Mark Wilson?

They are putting the fox in charge of the hen house.

I am going to assume you are a bright individual and you can figure out what this means. 

I would never buy a raw book from him, let alone give him (or PSA) my valuable raw books to grade and encapsulate.  I would never buy a PSA slab knowing he graded the raw book (  ), checked for restoration (  ) and encapsulated that raw book. 

There are other individuals who have had worse experiences than me who can chime in with the details.  Listen to Richard Evans on the Youtube video and that is all you need to know.  If you want to know more, go dig up some old threads in the Golden Age section.

[Nazirite]

On 8/5/2024 at 7:33 PM, OJ Pimpson said:

Yes, please elaborate, I’ve heard that some people feel he is untrustworthy but I’ve never heard further details

So doing a quick google search ( which I should’ve done in the beginning) this is what I found: