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Grading shenanigans at CGC?
9 9

Started by 0r0d,

387 posts in this topic

skybolt

skybolt

Posted
Posted (edited)

The only thing I can think of is that senior grades have a minimum set criterion for 9.9's and 10.0's. For example, the one SS 8 book clearly had a noticeable miswrap. The senior graders could see that through the slab and adjust the grade accordingly.

Edited by skybolt
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Tom789

Tom789

Posted
Posted

I went over all the 9.9s to see if they deserved their grades, using my admittedly novice grading skills.  On four of them, I noticed no issues.  But I also notice none on lots of 9.8s too.  Anyway, here are notes on the other eight if you care to investigate further.  Comments apply to front cover unless indicated.

001 - landing strip, possible faint crease bottom of spine

002 - bits of white at bindery corners

008 - small chips out of top edge, lower bindery corner showing some white

011 - Lower right corner slightly blunt, yellow stain on back, possibly from interior distributor ink

012 - slanted landing strip, soiling or ink splotch NW of "Frogger II" on back cover

016 - ink splotch on back cover

018 - landing strip

019 - possible 1"+ scratch, lower right corner

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bc

bc

Posted
Posted

I went back and mined all the data going back to July 2001 from CGCDATA.COM. That is as far back as the data goes.

That site has consolidated the data that is over 5 years old into 6 month summary records (likely to keep performance strong & storage requirements minimized). That explains why the graphic below is "blocky" until 2020.

Created a new graph showing the Percentage of 10's & 9.9's compared to the total monthly census additions. Hopefully you can click on this to get a better view (I'll test it after I submit).

image.thumb.png.8053a2f18aabbbd2b4143d126d367cd6.png

 

As a baseline, the Average Percentages over the entire period (over 11 million census additions in 20+ years) is:

0.119% for 10's

0.482% for 9.9's

-bc

 

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uncannyjames

uncannyjames

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 5:38 PM, CGC Mike said:

The 9.9’s are legit.  As shown in the images, these are exceptionally nice books.

There you have it folks! No shenanigans here! Let's review this submission...

21 books, 12 9.9s, all Copper and Bronze age books, NONE OF WHICH ARE SQUAREBOUND

Here are the 9.9s from that submission:

(2) Dazzler #1
(5) Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8
(1) New Mutants #1
(1) Wolverine Limited Series #4
(1) Uncanny X-Men #145
(1) Uncanny X-Men #174
(1) Uncanny X-Men Annual #3

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 7:48 AM, mikenyc said:

The self-proclaimed master graders on these boards,

97hdn7.jpg

On 10/21/2024 at 7:48 AM, mikenyc said:

They submit books into a completely subjective system and then are angry when they don't get the grades back they feel their submissions deserve. 

97he4a.jpg

97hens.jpg

:popcorn:

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RockMyAmadeus

RockMyAmadeus

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/21/2024 at 11:10 AM, uncannyjames said:

I feel like that if an independent data analytics team got a hold of CGC's census data and was able to create a scatter plot of all submissions with at least 1 9.9 in the submission that we would find out that submissions with MULTIPLE 9.9s would definitely be outliers and also that those submissions would be linked to a small subset of accounts (if you know what I'm saying).

97hgga.jpg

CGC4491019-001_REV.jpg

Edited by RockMyAmadeus
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skybolt

skybolt

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/21/2024 at 6:42 PM, uncannyjames said:

There you have it folks! No shenanigans here! Let's review this submission...

21 books, 12 9.9s, all Copper and Bronze age books, NONE OF WHICH ARE SQUAREBOUND

Here are the 9.9s from that submission:

(2) Dazzler #1
(5) Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars #8
(1) New Mutants #1
(1) Wolverine Limited Series #4
(1) Uncanny X-Men #145
(1) Uncanny X-Men #174
(1) Uncanny X-Men Annual #3

All I want to know is what sort of black magic do I need to practice to get that same grader on my next submission? :devil:

Edited by skybolt
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vheflin

vheflin

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 7:40 PM, bc said:

I went back and mined all the data going back to July 2001 from CGCDATA.COM. That is as far back as the data goes.

That site has consolidated the data that is over 5 years old into 6 month summary records (likely to keep performance strong & storage requirements minimized). That explains why the graphic below is "blocky" until 2020.

Created a new graph showing the Percentage of 10's & 9.9's compared to the total monthly census additions. Hopefully you can click on this to get a better view (I'll test it after I submit).

image.thumb.png.8053a2f18aabbbd2b4143d126d367cd6.png

 

As a baseline, the Average Percentages over the entire period (over 11 million census additions in 20+ years) is:

0.119% for 10's

0.482% for 9.9's

-bc

 

10s look to be @ 0.55% now

9.9s @ 1.87%

They are both being added at roughly 5x the 20 year average.

I think that explains this submission and there will be (many) more submissions like it.

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bc

bc

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 8:06 PM, vheflin said:

10s look to be @ 0.55% now

9.9s @ 1.87%

They are both being added at roughly 5x the 20 year average.

I think that explains this submission and there will be (many) more submissions like it.

You are super close:

10's are up to 0.53% as of Sept 24

9.9's are up to 1.88% as of Sept 24

-bc

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Dave2739

Dave2739

Posted
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Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 7:40 PM, bc said:

I went back and mined all the data going back to July 2001 from CGCDATA.COM. That is as far back as the data goes.

That site has consolidated the data that is over 5 years old into 6 month summary records (likely to keep performance strong & storage requirements minimized). That explains why the graphic below is "blocky" until 2020.

Created a new graph showing the Percentage of 10's & 9.9's compared to the total monthly census additions. Hopefully you can click on this to get a better view (I'll test it after I submit).

image.thumb.png.8053a2f18aabbbd2b4143d126d367cd6.png

 

As a baseline, the Average Percentages over the entire period (over 11 million census additions in 20+ years) is:

0.119% for 10's

0.482% for 9.9's

-bc

 

Your graph reminds me of Carmine Infantino's skylines.

image.thumb.jpeg.77146ba8aa6df316f3c7c8637b81bae0.jpeg

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Tnexus

Tnexus

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 10/21/2024 at 2:38 PM, CGC Mike said:

This invoice was graded and QC’d by our senior team of graders.  The 9.9’s are legit.  As shown in the images, these are exceptionally nice books. Regarding the two examples with different grades shown in the online images, the grades were reassessed by the senior grading team during the QC step, but the original images were not replaced. This has been rectified.

So wait, they were graded by senior graders, then were slabbed, then QC sends them to other senior graders who must have seen enough on them while slabbed (so no side spine) to bring them down to a 9.8?

Edited by Tnexus
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Axelrod

Axelrod

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Posted

The red flag is:  Why was this invoice, full of very common and otherwise not especially valuable books, assigned to CGC's "senior" team of graders?

And I suspect the answer is:  Because the fix was in.  

This was not just a random submission.  This was a submission where phone calls were made, special care was taken, and special consideration was very likely given.  

I would bet money that this submission involved a personal phone call to Matt Nelson (or similar) from a very special friend, giving a heads-up that said special friend was sending a set of books that they thought were 9.9/10 candidates, and would you please take a very close and careful look at these when they come in thank you very much....

 

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Engr62

Engr62

Posted
Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 9:32 PM, Tnexus said:

So wait, they were graded by one grader, then were slabbed, then QC sends them to the senior graders who must have seen enough on them while slabbed (so no side spine) to bring them down to a 9.8?

The senior graders probably noticed they had a spine tick from the bent inner wells they put them in, so they knocked them down a grade. :whistle:

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