Trim JIM in Heritage Auction

[Red Hook]

 

One question:

 

Will you continue to employ the services of PCS to manipulate the structural integrity of comic books through the practice of pressing?

 

Apparently any customer of PCS has already signed an agreement to not discuss it. So even if it were true that Doug used their services for pressing (which he believes is not restoration) then he couldn't say. You're not going to get an answer to this one, as much as you might like one. Your beef is with CGC and PCS, not their customers.

 

Red

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

One question:

 

Will you continue to employ the services of PCS to manipulate the structural integrity of comic books through the practice of pressing?

 

Apparently any customer of PCS has already signed an agreement to not discuss it. So even if it were true that Doug used their services for pressing (which he believes is not restoration) then he couldn't say. You're not going to get an answer to this one, as much as you might like one. Your beef is with CGC and PCS, not their customers.

 

Red

 

1. Whether Doug considers pressing to be 'restoration' or not is irrelevant. My question pertains to the STRUCTURAL MANIPULATION of numerical grades for profit.

 

2. Without customers to support these practices...there would be no service.

 

3. Noone forced Doug to sign this agreement in the 1st place. Many choose not to have books pressed regardless of the money that will be "left on the table".

[Red Hook]

Yeah, but why in the world would he bother to ever answer your question, considering it's phrased as aggressively and obnoxiously as possible? Are you serious, or just trying to show how righteous you are. Trust me, no one would ever answer your question as you put it.

 

Red

[THE_BEYONDER]

What are you talking about? All I want to know is whether or not Doug will continue to have books pressed. Is that not a legitimate question?

[Red Hook]

 

1. Whether Doug considers pressing to be 'restoration' or not is irrelevant. My question pertains to the STRUCTURAL MANIPULATION of numerical grades for profit.

 

2. Without customers to support these practices...there would be no service.

 

3. Noone forced Doug to sign this agreement in the 1st place. Many choose not to have books pressed regardless of the money that will be "left on the table".

 

1. Secondly, I don't pretend to know what any collectors ultimate motivations are. Doug likes big numbers. You're assuming way too much. Just stick to what you can prove.

 

2. You've got the cart in front of the horse. You'll never get anywhere with that arguement.

 

3. That comes back to the never ending debate of for-or-against pressing. You're confusing the issue here. Many choose not to press and many choose to press. This isn't about that debate.

 

Red

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you sure you don't want to make any more personal attacks against me before I continue?

[Red Hook]

What are you talking about? All I want to know is whether or not Doug will continue to have books pressed. Is that not a legitimate question?

 

That's not the question you asked. This is the question you asked....

 

Will you continue to employ the services of PCS to manipulate the structural integrity of comic books through the practice of pressing?

 

Why are you bothering with Doug? He would never answer the question you posed for about half a dozen reasons I can think of. If you thought about it for 15 seconds, you wouldn't be arguing with me about it.

[Red Hook]

Are you sure you don't want to make any more personal attacks against me before I continue?

 

If you consider what I wrote a "personal attack" then you're pretty thin skinned. And your question to Doug (which I guarantee will go unanswered) is even more of a thinly veiled attack. Get real.

[lou_fine]

its kind of weak that a book (i.e. JIM 92) could be trimmed and come back at least twice through the CGC's hands as untrimmed.

 

Let's just hope that all the trimmed books are or will soon be identified as I'm under the impression that no new ones have been found since Ewert's ouster.

 

Doug

 

Doug;

 

Nice to see you back on the boards here and I certainly hope everything works out in the long run.

 

Anyways, the two points you made above are still of concern to me. Since CGC cannot detect micro-trimming if done correctly or without advance notice, your point that they have not identified any new ones since the Jason fiasco is certainly not encouraging to me. Especially since there must be more than one person using this particularly successful and undetectable technique to maximize the full potential of their books.

 

What's even more discouraging, however, is not only the lack of CGC's concern with pressing, but their behind the scenes clear and obvious encouragement and full support of this undetectable restoration activity.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you sure you don't want to make any more personal attacks against me before I continue?

 

If you consider what I wrote a "personal attack" then you're pretty thin skinned. And your question to Doug (which I guarantee will go unanswered) is even more of a thinly veiled attack. Get real.

 

You win.

[Ze-man]

 

What's even more discouraging, however, is not only the lack of CGC's concern with pressing, but their behind the scenes clear and obvious encouragement and full support of this undetectable restoration activity.

 

Exactly, the more I learn about PCS, the more I throw up in my mouth a little. I thought Brad was kidding when he wrote that you had to sign off before using the service. Please tell me that was a Sunday Morning funny Brad, please.

 

And Beyonder...you are way off base bro... before I even read the little exchange between you and Red, I thought your comment,/question to Doug was way outta line. If it was a legitmate question, it was laced with barbed wire, and poison. You have EVERY right to ask it...but try sugar next time bro, works alot better then vinegar.

 

Ze-

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Ze-man]

It was 4 in the mornin when you wrote that question. Cut yourself some slack bro.

 

I too think pressing is the devil, and can ruin a good many books. Bit misplaced aggression aint gonna change that.

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

This is old, old news. Been done to death.

[burntboy]

 

One question:

 

Will you continue to employ the services of PCS to manipulate the structural integrity of comic books through the practice of pressing?

 

Apparently any customer of PCS has already signed an agreement to not discuss it. So even if it were true that Doug used their services for pressing (which he believes is not restoration) then he couldn't say. You're not going to get an answer to this one, as much as you might like one. Your beef is with CGC and PCS, not their customers.

 

Red

 

maybe this was common "knowledge", but i'm surprised that it didn't seem to raise more hackles..............

 

i always thought the mere concept of a PCS somewhere in the CGG loop was troubling enough, but this approach (if proven to be true) of having to sign a statement of secrecy is just scary.................

 

and Beyonder (i'm not taking sides here) i can see where you worded your question in a manner to leave no doubt to either what the question truly was or get across your true feelings about pressing. i think it accomplished both, but is also sufficiently brusque as to potentially preclude there being an answer forthcoming..........

[Ze-man]

This is old, old news. Been done to death.

And that comment is helping how?

 

 

 

You guys are funny, later

Ze-

[THE_BEYONDER]

It was 4 in the mornin bro, when you wrote that question. Cut yourself some slack.

 

I too think pressing is the devil, and can ruin a good many books. Bit misplaced aggression aint gonna change that.

 

Ze-

 

I don't think pressing is the devil, nor those that have books pressed. There are members here that have clearly stated that they've had books pressed in the past. Did you ever see me attacking them for it? This is a matter of 'intent'...nothing more.

[lou_fine]

Apparently any customer of PCS has already signed an agreement to not discuss it. So even if it were true that Doug used their services for pressing (which he believes is not restoration) then he couldn't say. You're not going to get an answer to this one, as much as you might like one. Your beef is with CGC and PCS, not their customers.

 

Red

 

Red;

 

Based upon your above statement, I guess we must assume that grading is a good thing while conservation must be a bad thing.

 

After all, CGC and all the dealers seems to be very open with all of their grading stats such as hyping highest graded copy and providing census information for everybody to see. Yet at the same time, PCS is forcing everybody to sign non-disclosure agreements in order to use their services.

 

I guess PCS is really nothing more than a formal and professional way of moving restoration work back into the darkened basements of the hobby similar to the bad bad pre-CGC days of the 80's and 90's.

[Ze-man]

 

maybe this was common "knowledge", but i'm surprised that it didn't seem to raise more hackles..............i always thought the mere concept of a PCS somewhere in the CGG loop was troubling enough, but this approach (if proven to be true) of having to sign a statement of secrecy is just scary.................

 

 

 

Harry, I am with you. I kinda knew PCS was out there,doing.."things" But I for one am in the dark as to what speed they are actually running at now.

I guess I could dig around, make some calls. But would just rather ask.

 

What is the present state of PCS , and what exactly is public knowledge. And what exactly does the waiver say.

 

Who declined an invation to the PCS opening party and can speak frankly about something to which should NOT be spoken of in dark corridors only.

 

I guess I am a day late, but this is really starting to [embarrassing lack of self control] me off, and I wanted have a good sunday too.

 

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

 

Red;

 

Based upon your above statement, I guess we must assume that grading is a good thing while conservation must be a bad thing.

 

After all, CGC and all the dealers seems to be very open with all of their grading stats such as hyping highest graded copy and providing census information for everybody to see. Yet at the same time, PCS is forcing everybody to sign non-disclosure agreements in order to use their services.

 

I guess PCS is really nothing more than a formal and professional way of moving restoration work back into the darkened basements of the hobby similar to the bad bad pre-CGC days of the 80's and 90's.

 

Yeah, that's about it. The slime factor is pretty much up there. It's about deceit, favoritism, lack of impartiality, and yes, manipulation of the market, .....all the things CGC claimed they were going to keep us safer from.

 

Red