Trim JIM in Heritage Auction

[Mr. Zipper]

*CHOP*

 

People actually pay to attend Devil Rays games?

 

[blazingbob]

No offense but if I was a customer of Doug's I wouldn't want that information displayed on the internet.

 

Now I can see some of you who've made some purchases from Dougie.

[blazingbob]

Flemings is a great steak restaurant. One of the best in my opinion.

[Mr. Zipper]

No offense but if I was a customer of Doug's I wouldn't want that information displayed on the internet.

 

Yup. The names should be blacked out.

[Red Hook]

Doug said let it rip,so wtf. Don't get sidetracked.

[shadroch]

After a quick review of those documents,they strike me more as something a prosecutor would introduce,not a defense attorney.

What in these things backs Doug up whatsoever,besides pointing out he ate in Sarasota on a day he said he was there?

If I'm missing something,or not giving enough gravity to a certain item,please point it out.

[Red Hook]

Well, without taking sides....these seem to be an attempt to clarify some of the date related questions of your post of Feb.1. I think you need to summarize what the date related questions you had were, for the sake of someone coming to the thread new.

 

 

 

Dates not in question

10-5 FFBs email to Doug alerting him to books trimming

10-11 Brents email to board members informing them and stating owner has been told. Brents says he sent scans,Doug doesn't recall.

10-26 Doug picks up book

1-6 book is on Heritage website.

 

dates in question.

Date book was graded.-Doug says 10-7,CGC site supposedly says 10-13

Date book was submitted-Doug says mid-Sept,with other books and he says he has amex bill to back it up. Brent reports that it is listed as a single submission on CGCs site.

 

Key date to be determined-date book was submitted to Heritage.

 

Thats as clear as I can figure,anyone have anything different.

 

With that said, I certainly don't claim this fax will clarify anything in your post, other than the fact that Doug was in Sarasota mid-Sept as he says....that's what he was referring to in your post.

 

As for the CGC invoice, only they can clarify what the 10/6 date signifies. I wish they would. It seems to me that CGC could easily clarify what the submission date was on the JIM92. I am sure Doug would give them permission to release that little slice of info, especially since he is one of their bigger customers.

[Flaming_Telepath]

After a quick review of those documents,they strike me more as something a prosecutor would introduce,not a defense attorney.

What in these things backs Doug up whatsoever,besides pointing out he ate in Sarasota on a day he said he was there?

If I'm missing something,or not giving enough gravity to a certain item,please point it out.

 

You're not.

 

This is a cack-handed attempt to throw some circumstantial evidence at us that might give weight to Mr Schmell's claim. It is an attempt to muddy the waters further still.

 

However, the 'date received' pretty much hangs him good and high.

 

Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] does it have to be this way? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] do we have to question the actions of pretty much every [embarrassing lack of self control] dealer out there before we slap down a cent? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] can't we go about our hobby with a sense of enjoyment and pleasure instead of wondering just how far up the arse CGC/PCS/PGX/BSDs have taken us?

 

I am sick to death of just about all of this...what is the [embarrassing lack of self control] point anymore?

[shadroch]

A vey brief summary. Anyone who feels something is missing,feel free to add to it.

 

JIM 92 was offered in a Heritage auction.

Quality Comics said the book was formerly his,and had been trimmed.Quality said the new owner had been informed.

Turned out the new owner was Mr Schmell,of Pedigree comics,who said he had forgotten that this was a Ewert book.Quality and FFB showed PMs indicating that Mr Schmell had been informed of this book not months before,as he claimed but days.Oct. 5th was the date Mr Schmell was informed,according to both FFB andQuality.Mr Schmell furthur indicated that the book was submitted in mid-september as part of a large submission. It was pointed out that records indicate that the book was submitted Oct. 6th or 7th,not mid-September,as a single submission. Mr Schmell said he had the documents to back his story and release them.

All along the way,the thread was sidetracked by several members(including myself) taking numerous cheap shots at other members.

I'm sure I'm leaving someting out but thats the gist of it,I believe.

Anyone(besides Bugs) who feels there is an aspect I haven't included,feel free to add it.

Its my hope that everyone can try to resolve this on its own merits and not let past feelings,both good or ill,cloud their judgement.

[OldGuy]

Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] does it have to be this way? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] do we have to question the actions of pretty much every [embarrassing lack of self control] dealer out there before we slap down a cent? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] can't we go about our hobby with a sense of enjoyment and pleasure instead of wondering just how far up the arse CGC/PCS/PGX/BSDs have taken us?

 

$

[PedigreeMan]

After a quick review of those documents,they strike me more as something a prosecutor would introduce,not a defense attorney.

 

At this point in the game I am looking to be neither prosecutor nor defender; rather, I am taking the detective role in all of this. You can all call me Joe Friday.

 

All that being said, however, with this evidence I would probably run Doug in and put him under the lights for a bit. Like I said, this ain't looking good.

[Red Hook]

A vey brief summary. Anyone who feels something is missing,feel free to add to it.

 

JIM 92 was offered in a Heritage auction.

Quality Comics said the book was formerly his,and had been trimmed.Quality said the new owner had been informed.

Turned out the new owner was Mr Schmell,of Pedigree comics,who said he had forgotten that this was a Ewert book.Quality and FFB showed PMs indicating that Mr Schmell had been informed of this book not months before,as he claimed but days.Oct. 5th was the date Mr Schmell was informed,according to both FFB andQuality.Mr Schmell furthur indicated that the book was submitted in mid-september as part of a large submission. It was pointed out that records indicate that the book was submitted Oct. 6th or 7th,not mid-September,as a single submission. Mr Schmell said he had the documents to back his story and release them.

All along the way,the thread was sidetracked by several members(including myself) taking numerous cheap shots at other members.

I'm sure I'm leaving someting out but thats the gist of it,I believe.

 

Anyone(besides Bugs) who feels there is an aspect I haven't included,feel free to add it.

Its my hope that everyone can try to resolve this on its own merits and not let past feelings,both good or ill,cloud their judgement.

 

 

That's pretty good.

 

It's interesting...this copy of JIM 92 could easily serve as the poster child for what is wrong with the hobby these days. It's been pressed, hacked, resubbed several times. Once upon a time it was just a really nice book that had somehow survived four decades of chance to arrive at the end of the 20th century in amazing good shape. Unfortunately, because of the system in place.... including the huge financial incentives to keep squeezing the last buck out of these fragile pieces of American pop culture, you end up with a book that is like an empty syringe after being passed around at a drug den.

 

You know what? My raw JIM92 with it's red date stamp that may or may not be a Green River, and that probably would top out as a 7.5, and that I paid $99 for, is more an example of reality and true value than the molested one we're talking about.

[Red Hook]

After a quick review of those documents,they strike me more as something a prosecutor would introduce,not a defense attorney.

 

At this point in the game I am looking to be neither prosecutor nor defender; rather, I am taking the detective role in all of this. You can all call me Joe Friday.

 

All that being said, however, with this evidence I would probably run Doug in and put him under the lights for a bit. Like I said, this ain't looking good.

 

Funny Joe, but when was the last time something looked good around here when it came to discussions of the state of the hobby?

[qualitycomix]

A vey brief summary. Anyone who feels something is missing,feel free to add to it.

 

JIM 92 was offered in a Heritage auction.

Quality Comics said the book was formerly his,and had been trimmed.Quality said the new owner had been informed.

Turned out the new owner was Mr Schmell,of Pedigree comics,who said he had forgotten that this was a Ewert book.Quality and FFB showed PMs indicating that Mr Schmell had been informed of this book not months before,as he claimed but days.Oct. 5th was the date Mr Schmell was informed,according to both FFB andQuality.Mr Schmell furthur indicated that the book was submitted in mid-september as part of a large submission. It was pointed out that records indicate that the book was submitted Oct. 6th or 7th,not mid-September,as a single submission. Mr Schmell said he had the documents to back his story and release them.

All along the way,the thread was sidetracked by several members(including myself) taking numerous cheap shots at other members.

I'm sure I'm leaving someting out but thats the gist of it,I believe.

 

Anyone(besides Bugs) who feels there is an aspect I haven't included,feel free to add it.

Its my hope that everyone can try to resolve this on its own merits and not let past feelings,both good or ill,cloud their judgement.

 

 

That's pretty good.

 

It's interesting...this copy of JIM 92 could easily serve as the poster child for what is wrong with the hobby these days. It's been pressed, hacked, resubbed several times. Once upon a time it was just a really nice book that had somehow survived four decades of chance to arrive at the end of the 20th century in amazing good shape. Unfortunately, because of the system in place.... including the huge financial incentives to keep squeezing the last buck out of these fragile pieces of American pop culture, you end up with a book that is like an empty syringe after being passed around at a drug den.

 

You know what? My raw JIM92 with it's red date stamp that may or may not be a Green River, and that probably would top out as a 7.5, and that I paid $99 for, is more an example of reality and true value than the molested one we're talking about.

 

I'll take your JIM92 over my old Trim JIM any day!!!

[nik]

I would take your Trim JIM prior to Heritage

[Red Hook]

I'll take your JIM92 over my old Trim JIM any day!!!

 

Maybe we should just get ahold of the trimmed JIM92 and have a ceremonial burial. I think that puppy has suffered enough. It needs to be put out of it's misery at this point.

[nik]

Such a waste of classic books altered for the sake of a few bucks.

[qualitycomix]

I'll take your JIM92 over my old Trim JIM any day!!!

 

Maybe we should just get ahold of the trimmed JIM92 and have a ceremonial burial. I think that puppy has suffered enough. It needs to be put out of it's misery at this point.

 

I emailed Doug directly with questions that I have because I'm tired of the speculation. I grow weary of the witchhunt even though it seems to be bearing fruit.

 

Where is the trim JIM now? Let's burn it....

[Red Hook]

I'll kick in $25 towards a fund to rescue it and keep it on display as a symbol of greed. I think it should be shown with McGwires 70th homerun ball which has taken on a whole nuther level of meaning over the last year.

[Illiterati-migration]

Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] does it have to be this way? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] do we have to question the actions of pretty much every [embarrassing lack of self control] dealer out there before we slap down a cent? Why the [embarrassing lack of self control] can't we go about our hobby with a sense of enjoyment and pleasure instead of wondering just how far up the arse CGC/PCS/PGX/BSDs have taken us?

 

I am sick to death of just about all of this...what is the [embarrassing lack of self control] point anymore?

 

Amen, brother. Sadly, it would be much easier to make headway in terms of true change if so many of our fellow "collectors" weren't left staring at the pile of slabs in their closet at the end of the day.