I guess CGC 9.4 is no longer a guarantee of price retention.

[Matt Nelson]

Well I will be at Megacon on the Friday start, so if he is there I will and maybe I will talk with steve also. I think these rumors and accusations have been made for awhile and don't really seem to effect his sales amongst the group of people who actually buy high grade fairly expensive comics. As all the recent stuff about schmell has not appeared to effect his sales either- most of those Avengers from the first round of that so-called 3rd best Marvel run have sold as well as many other recently posted books. I personally feel I have suffered injury by Doug calling that the 3rd best Marvel run - so far mine is far superior!

 

I won't be at Megacon, but I will be at Wondercon in two weeks. I love talking about this stuff, so anyone is welcome to chat with me about it.

[Crackandpresstoan11]

Hi.

 

I, for one, appreciate the clarification and agree that the "personal" negative comments are not helpful to the discussion and certainly offensive to you.

 

I guess my concern is for the next buyer or possibly the next or me if I had no knowledge of the history of the comic. I guess I am a little confused about what I should expect out of the old Blue label. Does one now have to assume that any older book with a Universal grade may have been subject to some form of "acceptable" conservation? Why not documment such actions on the label? Too hard to do? Not economically acceptable?

 

I am not sure how I truly feel about this issue, but it seems collectors who purchase CGC books with Blue labels should have the right to know,{up front} whether or not the comic had any type restoration/conservation. IMO.

 

Russ

 

Hi Russ, if any collector wants to inquire about whether the books he's interested in bidding on are pressed, I would certainly disclose that to him.

 

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing. There has to be trust on both sides of the table in order for disclosure to work. (I'm okay buying pressed books, you're okay telling me if it's pressed). As long as there are people crying from the mountaintops about how crooked it all seems to be, that trust will never be established.

 

I don't understand your position. Why does there have to be "trust" from both sides? What are you trusting the buyer to do? Why do you need to know if I would buy a pressed book before you tell me it is pressed? It makes no sense. Collectors pay less for color touched books. I am sure you would disclose that info up front as soon as a buyer showed interest in the book. Collectors pay less for pressed books. But I have to tell you I don't mind buying pressed books before you tell me it's pressed?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing. There has to be trust on both sides of the table in order for disclosure to work. (I'm okay buying pressed books, you're okay telling me if it's pressed). As long as there are people crying from the mountaintops about how crooked it all seems to be, that trust will never be established.

 

 

Wow. Did you really just make the above statements?

 

Non-disclosure is "crooked", and the very reason people are "crying from the mountain tops" about it.

[B-Smooth]

Hi.

 

I, for one, appreciate the clarification and agree that the "personal" negative comments are not helpful to the discussion and certainly offensive to you.

 

I guess my concern is for the next buyer or possibly the next or me if I had no knowledge of the history of the comic. I guess I am a little confused about what I should expect out of the old Blue label. Does one now have to assume that any older book with a Universal grade may have been subject to some form of "acceptable" conservation? Why not documment such actions on the label? Too hard to do? Not economically acceptable?

 

I am not sure how I truly feel about this issue, but it seems collectors who purchase CGC books with Blue labels should have the right to know,{up front} whether or not the comic had any type restoration/conservation. IMO.

 

Russ

 

Hi Russ, if any collector wants to inquire about whether the books he's interested in bidding on are pressed, I would certainly disclose that to him.

 

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing. There has to be trust on both sides of the table in order for disclosure to work. (I'm okay buying pressed books, you're okay telling me if it's pressed). As long as there are people crying from the mountaintops about how crooked it all seems to be, that trust will never be established.

 

I don't understand your position. Why does there have to be "trust" from both sides? What are you trusting the buyer to do? Why do you need to know if I would buy a pressed book before you tell me it is pressed? It makes no sense. Collectors pay less for color touched books. I am sure you would disclose that info up front as soon as a buyer showed interest in the book. Collectors pay less for pressed books. But I have to tell you I don't mind buying pressed books before you tell me it's pressed?

 

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

[divad]

Pressing is for sissies

[THE_BEYONDER]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

 

 

Huh?

[B-Smooth]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

 

 

Huh?

 

Read it again dummy.

[B-Smooth]

Pressing is for sissies

 

so are comic books!

[supapimp]

I won't be at Megacon, but I will be at Wondercon in two weeks. I love talking about this stuff, so anyone is welcome to chat with me about it.

 

see you in a couple of weeks matt.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

 

 

Huh?

 

Read it again dummy.

 

I did. Now I'm twice as confused by your comments.

 

I went back a 3rd time in an attempt to break them down & respond.....but quickly recognized that to be an exercise in futility. Carry on

[B-Smooth]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

Read it again dummy.

 

I did. Now I'm twice as confused by your comments.

 

I went back a 3rd time in an attempt to break them down & respond.....but quickly recognized that to be an exercise in futility. Carry on

 

If you are interested in buying a book from Matt, just ASK him if it has been pressed. I simplified it a bit.

[Red Hook]

Spectre52 is Matt Nelson. I assume all of the books he sells are cleaned and pressed.

 

So we do agree on a thing or two.

[Red Hook]

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing. There has to be trust on both sides of the table in order for disclosure to work. (I'm okay buying pressed books, you're okay telling me if it's pressed). As long as there are people crying from the mountaintops about how crooked it all seems to be, that trust will never be established.

 

 

Wow. Did you really just make the above statements?

 

Non-disclosure is "crooked", and the very reason people are "crying from the mountain tops" about it.

 

 

Non-disclosure of pressing IS crooked.

[divad]

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing. There has to be trust on both sides of the table in order for disclosure to work. (I'm okay buying pressed books, you're okay telling me if it's pressed). As long as there are people crying from the mountaintops about how crooked it all seems to be, that trust will never be established.

 

 

Wow. Did you really just make the above statements?

 

Non-disclosure is "crooked", and the very reason people are "crying from the mountain tops" about it.

 

 

Non-disclosure of pressing IS crooked.

 

One might say that pressing is "crooked made straight"

[arexcrooke]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

Caveat first: This question is not directed at Matt directly, but is aimed at the dealers who continue to make the "will disclose if asked" stance.

If a dealer does not disclose that the book is pressed if they know it and only will disclose if asked IS HIDING INFORMATION. How cant they be?

Here is an example:

Say I buy a CGC book graded 7.5. I get it, crack it, and sell it as a 8.5 on Ebay or here on the boards. I dont tell someone that it was a 7.5 unless asked. I would be (and rightfully so) roasted here.

[divad]

dont ask . . . don't tell . . .

[arexcrooke]

dont ask . . . don't tell . . .

=dishonest

[B-Smooth]

Hes saying that he will not hide any information about the book. If you are an informed collector (im assuming you are), youll ask Matt if the book is pressed or not. He will answer your question honestly or be put out of business quickly. Most books that are pressed are high dollar books anyway, and if you dont know to ask questions about the book before you buy it you are a fool or a sucker. Bill talks to Matt a lot and he has been straight up about everything. I dont see any problems with pressing but i would ask if it were just for my own knowledge, otherwise i would suspect it wasnt pressed.

Caveat first: This question is not directed at Matt directly, but is aimed at the dealers who continue to make the "will disclose if asked" stance.

If a dealer does not disclose that the book is pressed if they know it and only will disclose if asked IS HIDING INFORMATION. How cant they be?

Here is an example:

Say I buy a CGC book graded 7.5. I get it, crack it, and sell it as a 8.5 on Ebay or here on the boards. I dont tell someone that it was a 7.5 unless asked. I would be (and rightfully so) roasted here.

 

Once you crack it, its no longer an 8.5 plus who says CGC is the law when it comes to grading? You may think the grade is an 8.5 and Its up to the buyer to decide the grade once its free from the slab. Its ALL about being an informed consumer. If i buy book X from a dealer, im going to ask all sorts of questions...and if he/she is lieing, THEN they will be fried in this forum and hopefully in the entire comic kingdom. Just my point of view.

[Straw-Man]

 

 

 

Non-disclosure of pressing IS crooked.

 

 

never heard anyone selling a church book disclose that it was on the bottom of a stack for 30 years. does anyone care? do we know if edgar on purpose put his bent, warped, dinged books on the bottom to get straightened out? does anyone care? would the pressing be ok if ed randomly selected the bottom book, but the scienter required of CHOOSING the bent book for the bottom somehow change the end result? and when you're the 'second party' to a pressed book in a blue label, and you don't have the pressing knowledge to disclose, have you done wrong selling it w/o disclosure? the buyer is getting the same book in the same label--what the hell is the difference?

 

bottom-line: cgc is currently the industry gatekeeper. they 'disclose' things by choosing blue/purple, notes on glue, ct.... In this market, cgc is a 'sight unseen' standard--hell, most people indicate they'll take no returns on a cgc book. if a person wants to say what his book went thru before it got in a slab, he can knock himself out; his choice. i see no moral imperitive for him to say more than the slab indicates however, since you're only holding the book our as cgc sees it.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Enlightening 1st post. Welcome to the Boards.