I guess CGC 9.4 is no longer a guarantee of price retention.

[Straw-Man]

I would just like to add one or two things. First off Matt your car analogy is horrible. I sell cars. We list miles, model, make ect because those are obvious things the customer needs to know. What you may not be aware of is if a car was wrecked by the previous owner it is the law that I disclose that and the amount of $ the damages were. Also there are ways for an informed consumer to do research if they do not trust me ie Carfax Reports. There is no way for me to know if you press a book except to ask you personally. When someone wants to trade in a car that has been wrecked and fixed they get less money. Do you get less money on the books you press?

 

 

You do not disclose pressing because you KNOW it will hurt you sales. You continue to do it because you KNOW you will make more money off of the books that people do not ask about. This is DISHONEST.

 

My answer to this is simple. I will not buy any books off of you period. No one else should either. Once someone is found to be a practicer of NDP people who are bothered by this should vote with their wallet and not purchase from them anymore. Everyone on the boards can [embarrassing lack of self control] and moan as much as they want but we all know who the NDP dealers are and until we hit them were it hurts nothing will change.

 

 

EXACTLY! 'ask them personally.' choose who you will buy from and not buy from. if a guy presses for a living, and sells books as well, and to you pressing is the devil, then don't buy from him. if you're like me, and think a pretty 9.2 in a blue slab is something worth owning and being proud of, whether in it's long past it's maybe been pressed [intentionally, or unintentionally---bottom of edgar's stacks] or even used by an unknowing spouse as a drop cloth in last year's bathroom repaint [fortunately no paint stains, but was walked on repeatedly-- it still got the 9.2 somehow, despite being compressed by those 6 1/2 clogs going over and back, over and back.... I know all that cuz he disclosed it to me without my having asked---yeah, right], you'll happily buy the book if the price is right.

[B-Smooth]

I would just like to add one or two things. First off Matt your car analogy is horrible. I sell cars. We list miles, model, make ect because those are obvious things the customer needs to know. What you may not be aware of is if a car was wrecked by the previous owner it is the law that I disclose that and the amount of $ the damages were. Also there are ways for an informed consumer to do research if they do not trust me ie Carfax Reports. There is no way for me to know if you press a book except to ask you personally. When someone wants to trade in a car that has been wrecked and fixed they get less money. Do you get less money on the books you press?

 

 

You do not disclose pressing because you KNOW it will hurt you sales. You continue to do it because you KNOW you will make more money off of the books that people do not ask about. This is DISHONEST.

 

My answer to this is simple. I will not buy any books off of you period. No one else should either. Once someone is found to be a practicer of NDP people who are bothered by this should vote with their wallet and not purchase from them anymore. Everyone on the boards can [embarrassing lack of self control] and moan as much as they want but we all know who the NDP dealers are and until we hit them were it hurts nothing will change.

 

 

EXACTLY! 'ask them personally.' choose who you will buy from and not buy from. if a guy presses for a living, and sells books as well, and to you pressing is the devil, then don't buy from him. if you're like me, and think a pretty 9.2 in a blue slab is something worth owning and being proud of, whether in it's long past it's maybe been pressed [intentionally, or unintentionally---bottom of edgar's stacks] or even used by an unknowing spouse as a drop cloth in last year's bathroom repaint [fortunately no paint stains, but was walked on repeatedly-- it still got the 9.2 somehow, despite being compressed by those 6 1/2 clogs going over and back, over and back.... I know all that cuz he disclosed it to me without my having asked---yeah, right], you'll happily buy the book if the price is right.

 

what he said.

[Aman619]

ditto, baby. telling....it...like....it.....is!

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

Matt knows it's a big deal...which is why he said earlier, "I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing."

 

i don't know/care if he does or doesnt'---my point: rather than move thru a con, modifying your buying habits/inquiries from booth to booth by making a judgment call at each stop [it is a big deal to this one/it's not a big deal for this guy], ask away habitually if it's important to you. no harm done, hopefully gets your info, and promotes converstation about funny books---admit it, other than owning our funny-books, the next best thing is talking about them. if not none of us would be typing here!!

You shouldn't have to ask. And I'm getting tired of the apologists in this hobby making excuses for those who don't provide full disclosure because they know it'll affect the price they get for their books. It's fraud no matter how you slice it and no matter how much you want to screech about asking everyone the same question over and over. Instead of putting the responsibility on the thousands of collectors for something they aren't doing...how about actually putting the responsibility on the dealers/sellers that ARE doing it and not revealing it?

[jkc313]

Two major issues holding down the price of this book:

 

C/OW page quality - While I know that this doesn't bother you as much as other collectors, George, for many the prices they are willing to pay on high grade books depends dramatically on the page quality. Count me in as one of these collectors, and if I am willing at all to buy a book with C/OW pages, I'd expect to pay maybe half as much as for an OW/W or W copy in comparable shape. This is not a hard and fast rule, but depends on the scarcity of the book in question in high grade. This one is not terribly uncommon.

 

Matt Nelson factor - One can assume that this book likely has received a C&P, further lowering its desirability. Indeed, most of Matt's recent auctions would suggest he is reaping less for books of comparable grade and page quality than many other E-Bay sellers.

Bingo.

 

Agreed. Buyers are no longer buying the grade for big bucks but actually looking at the comic!! I couldn't tell from the scan but this book may have a nasty transfer stain that so many FF Annual 2's have. CGC seems to care less about transfer stains. Also, page quality's becoming more and more important as is centering. The general public may not know who Matt Nelson is but anyone willing to pay $3500 for a 9.4 FF Annual 2 surely does.

keith contarino

[Matt Nelson]

I would just like to add one or two things. First off Matt your car analogy is horrible. I sell cars. We list miles, model, make ect because those are obvious things the customer needs to know. What you may not be aware of is if a car was wrecked by the previous owner it is the law that I disclose that and the amount of $ the damages were.

 

My analogy is not horrible--it hits the nail on the head. I said the seller had knowledge of the previous owner racing dune buggies, not that the car was wrecked, as you think it said. And since you're a car salesman, let me ask you this; would you put a sign on that car saying the previous owner races dune buggies for fun? Of course not. I've bought a few cars in my lifetime, and I can't say I've ever seen a sign like that.

 

 

My answer to this is simple. I will not buy any books off of you period.

Your prerogative. And I won't be buying any cars from you. Especially ones that were previously owned by dune buggy racers.

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

My analogy is not horrible--it hits the nail on the head. I said the seller had knowledge of the previous owner racing dune buggies, not that the car was wrecked, as you think it said. And since you're a car salesman, let me ask you this; would you put a sign on that car saying the previous owner races dune buggies for fun? Of course not. I've bought a few cars in my lifetime, and I can't say I've ever seen a sign like that.

No, your analogy was ridiculous. You're performing work on books to enhance their grade and not disclosing it unless someone specifically asks you about it. CGC isn't the "be all and end all" to deciding if pressing or dry cleaning is restoration. You've admitted yourself that if you disclosed beforehand which books you've pressed, it would affect the price you get. This should tell you that many in the hobby do consider it a form of restoration. And it's no better than someone color touching or trimming a book and trying to pass it off to an unknowing collector as unrestored, simply because he didn't ask first.

[B-Smooth]

Are you JC by chance?

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

Are you JC by chance?

 

Nope. Just someone who's sick of all the shady garbage going on in this hobby. This stuff is reaching critical mass and these dealers better wake the hell up.

 

[B-Smooth]

Im just a realist. I ask questions and rely on my own judgement. I dont comment on or judge others until Ive personally been wronged.

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

Im just a realist. I ask questions and rely on my own judgement. I dont comment on or judge others until Ive personally been wronged.

Not much would ever get changed then, would it? I'm for people being held accountable for their actions...whether they've wronged me or someone else in this hobby. And as long as these dealers refuse to disclose this kind of information before being asked "because it would hurt their bottom line"...then I'm going to call them on their lousy and unethical business practices.

[Straw-Man]

Are you JC by chance?

 

Nope. Just someone who's sick of all the shady garbage going on in this hobby. This stuff is reaching critical mass and these dealers better wake the hell up.

 

 

about this pressing thing, what would Jesus do? HE'D ASK!!!! [unless He already knew--the nuns taught me He knew everything]. and if He's in the hobby He definitely collects timely and marvel. now way He would be a d.c. guy. if somebody reading this has a source [you know how pat roberston and those guys say they're always talking to Him?] and has inside poop that He's putting together a hi-grade d.c. silver age gorilla cover run DO NOT TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arexcrooke]

Are you JC by chance?

 

Nope. Just someone who's sick of all the shady garbage going on in this hobby. This stuff is reaching critical mass and these dealers better wake the hell up.

 

 

about this pressing thing, what would Jesus do? HE'D ASK!!!! [unless He already knew--the nuns taught me He knew everything]. and if He's in the hobby He definitely collects timely and marvel. now way He would be a d.c. guy. if somebody reading this has a source [you know how pat roberston and those guys say they're always talking to Him?] and has inside poop that He's putting together a hi-grade d.c. silver age gorilla cover run DO NOT TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is one of the worst posts ive ever read here.

[arexcrooke]

My analogy is not horrible--it hits the nail on the head. I said the seller had knowledge of the previous owner racing dune buggies, not that the car was wrecked, as you think it said. And since you're a car salesman, let me ask you this; would you put a sign on that car saying the previous owner races dune buggies for fun? Of course not. I've bought a few cars in my lifetime, and I can't say I've ever seen a sign like that.

No, your analogy was ridiculous. You're performing work on books to enhance their grade and not disclosing it unless someone specifically asks you about it. CGC isn't the "be all and end all" to deciding if pressing or dry cleaning is restoration. You've admitted yourself that if you disclosed beforehand which books you've pressed, it would affect the price you get. This should tell you that many in the hobby do consider it a form of restoration. And it's no better than someone color touching or trimming a book and trying to pass if off to an unknowing collector as unrestored, simply because he didn't ask first.

[B-Smooth]

Are you JC by chance?

 

Nope. Just someone who's sick of all the shady garbage going on in this hobby. This stuff is reaching critical mass and these dealers better wake the hell up.

 

 

about this pressing thing, what would Jesus do? HE'D ASK!!!! [unless He already knew--the nuns taught me He knew everything]. and if He's in the hobby He definitely collects timely and marvel. now way He would be a d.c. guy. if somebody reading this has a source [you know how pat roberston and those guys say they're always talking to Him?] and has inside poop that He's putting together a hi-grade d.c. silver age gorilla cover run DO NOT TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

drink a bit too much tonight?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Are you JC by chance?

 

Nope. Just someone who's sick of all the shady garbage going on in this hobby. This stuff is reaching critical mass and these dealers better wake the hell up.

 

 

about this pressing thing, what would Jesus do? HE'D ASK!!!! [unless He already knew--the nuns taught me He knew everything]. and if He's in the hobby He definitely collects timely and marvel. now way He would be a d.c. guy. if somebody reading this has a source [you know how pat roberston and those guys say they're always talking to Him?] and has inside poop that He's putting together a hi-grade d.c. silver age gorilla cover run DO NOT TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

He works with the good guys....

 

100% UNRESTORED & MANIPULATION-FREE GUARANTEED

[Sal]

Im just a realist. I ask questions and rely on my own judgement. I dont comment on or judge others until Ive personally been wronged.

 

here's the kicker, the thing that takes the whole argument of "well, it's up to the buyer to do the research," out and kicks it in the nuts. and it's pretty simple.

 

what happens to you if you buy a book from someone who bought from someone else and didn't ask?

 

riddle me that.

 

you don't like pressed books? well, gee whiz, i hope the guy you buy your books from did the work you are claiming he should do, because if he didn't, then it doesn't matter one bit what the hell you do

[ericc123]

I would just like to add one or two things. First off Matt your car analogy is horrible. I sell cars. We list miles, model, make ect because those are obvious things the customer needs to know. What you may not be aware of is if a car was wrecked by the previous owner it is the law that I disclose that and the amount of $ the damages were.

 

My analogy is not horrible--it hits the nail on the head. I said the seller had knowledge of the previous owner racing dune buggies, not that the car was wrecked, as you think it said. And since you're a car salesman, let me ask you this; would you put a sign on that car saying the previous owner races dune buggies for fun? Of course not. I've bought a few cars in my lifetime, and I can't say I've ever seen a sign like that.

 

I'm not sure that I get your point. Your saying that someone wouldn't buy a car because the person who previously owned it raced Dune Buggies but there was no damage to the car at all? I don't get it thats like me saying because I know you press books that I wouldn't buy a book off of you even if it is 100% untouched. Oh sorry I think I aswered my own question. So you as a comic seller would you put a statement in your auctions that you sometime press books but if the customer wants to find out about the book they are looking at they have to contact you?

[esquirecomics]

Will you disclose (without being asked outright) any work done to the books you are selling in your auctions, regardless of what color the cgc label is?

 

Would you buy them from me if I did?

 

To be honest, no.

 

But I would respect the heck out of you.

 

And, no doubt, more importantly, were you to actually take the high road (i.e., automatic disclosure), I would be far more likely to do professional business with you for books that had not been monkeyed with. In fact, I would go out of my way to do so as a reward for your ethical behavior.

 

There's something to consider. I am sure I am not the only one who feels that way.

 

[slab_em-migration]

Pardon the stupid question if that's what it is, but is Matt Nelson affiliated with that particular seller? IS he that particular seller? I'd had a bunch of his Spidey auctions watched, and the jerk has the word "pedigree" in all his auctions, screwing with my searches.

 

 

There's no need for this kind of post. We don't even know each other.

 

No, I do know you, you're the seller with pedigree in the text of all his auctions!

 

It's only a minor annoyance, keep on keeping on, I'll keep on weeding through.

 

O, and you're saying that some of the books may be pressed, but none are cleaned? The pressing doesn't bother me too much, the trimming cleaning and all that garbage, that's bothersome.

 

Absolutely no cleaning. If I was sitting here disassembling and cleaning bronze age books all day long to make $25, I'd be out of business within a week.

 

When you say "absolutely no cleaning", does this include non-disassembled dry cleaning? And are you aware of CGC's restoration policy regarding non-disassembled dry cleaning?