I guess CGC 9.4 is no longer a guarantee of price retention.

[Straw-Man]

The general consensus I was referring to were posters on the boards, not the marketplace in general. Yes, some posters do view pressing in a different light, or else this string would not exist.

How do you know that the general market cares or not if it is not disclosed? Not an attack on you Matt, but just a general observation.

 

I, like CGC, don't think it is an issue that requires disclosure. However, as a dealer in the marketplace, and in the interest of goodwill, if a person asks me something about a book that I have an answer to, I would tell them.

Obviously I dont agree with you, but that is your opinion. Thats cool with me

 

Here's a good analogy: a car dealer selling his car discloses the model year, the mileage, the options, and puts a price on it. If a prospective buyer wants to know more about that car, he can ask all the questions he can think of that will help him reach an informed decision. The dealer, to maintain goodwill if nothing else, should answer. But the suggestion that the car was first owned by a 16 year old who just got their license, and who's hobby was racing dune buggies, needs to be told by the dealer to the prospective buyer automatically, and not in response to a question, seems preposterous to me.

Actually Matt, thats an aweful analogy. Maybe you should have drawn the analogy to whether the dealer knows the car was wrecked and then fixed. The dunebuggy racing has nothing to do with the car. However, if it was wrecked that would be info that needed to be disclosed.

 

 

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

[Straw-Man]

having some trouble with the 'quote' feature; my post was meant to be in response to #1085486 bemoaning the used car allusion. brand new to the forum and i'll try to do better.

[THE_BEYONDER]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

[arexcrooke]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

[B-Smooth]

Im not disagreeing with you on asking. I am now asking the same questions with books I am buying.

However, I think the crux for me is that if they know and dont tell withouth prompting then they are being dishonest.

 

You may be right but Matt is a good guy and i just cant see him doing this. Others, I cant vouch for.

Again, this isnt an attack on Matt, but how do you know he is a good guy? How do we know that anyone is a good guy/gal? We dont. We can place a measure of trust in them, but do we really know if someone is a "good" guy or gal? Take a look at what has happened with Doug. I wouldnt lump him into the good guy class right now, would you?

I dunno.

I do realize that Im spliting hairs and being obtuse.

 

I know because Bill deals with him a lot and he is a good judge of character. Could Matt be lieing...sure, but so could anyone for that matter. I think he has balls coming on here and explaining his position. I cant speak for anyone else but we find him to be upfront and honest. It would be foolish to lump him into the same catergory as crooks such as Meth and ewart and possibly (innocent until proven guilty) Doug.

[Sal]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

 

yeah, preeeetty sure we're expecting the same from our funny book dealers as our used car dealers. give me all the info, and let me make an informed decision.

 

NOT sell what ye may and hope i never find out. because if you do that, you're going to issue a refund, and lose a customer for life

[Scheradon]

It all comes down to the mighty $$$$. Here again is an example of that. The "I'll be honest only if asked" attitude is such a load. Knowing that people would probably pay less for a pressed and or cleaned book, sellers don't want to disclose that. The popular line is that they have "no problem" disclosing it to any buyer who asks. Well, the problem with that, and they know this, is that most of the people buying on Ebay won't ever ask that question. Many probably assume that pressing and cleaning are forms of restoration and a book with that done to it would not be in an Unrestored Blue Label. I know until I joined these boards, that is exactly what I thought and bought blindly when it came to Blue Label books, thinking CGC had my best interest at heart. I've learned a lot since then.

 

Why not set the standard and go ahead and try to be the MOST HONEST seller out there and disclose everything. I would think the trade off in trust in you as a seller for this would greatly out weigh any potential loss on a pressed book. I would buy from you (or any seller) if I could count on this kind of up frontness. I don't feel like I should have to play cat and mouse with every seller I deal with in asking just the right questions to get the KNOWN background (conservation or restoration) of a book they are selling.

[Straw-Man]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

 

yeah, preeeetty sure we're expecting the same from our funny book dealers as our used car dealers. give me all the info, and let me make an informed decision.

 

NOT sell what ye may and hope i never find out. because if you do that, you're going to issue a refund, and lose a customer for life

 

 

and that's my point; WHOEVER you're dealing with, if you have concerns [that might NOT be their concerns] about a product, ASK ABOUT THEM! the answer will satisfy you or NOT satisfy you. then make your decision. funny-book dealer, car-dealer, indian chief, candle-stick maker.... if for example, the 'pressing thing' ain't a big deal to the dealer, don't expect him to assume it's a big deal to you---so take care of this unknown component by expressly bringing up your concern. this 'i shouldn't have to ask' thing seems like a point of pride, but why should it be? it's the buyer's money, and if he doesn't get info suiting him, move to the next booth. or it seems to me the real problem lies with cgc not being ok with pressing and not noting it. so, DON'T buy slabbed books.

[Sal]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

 

yeah, preeeetty sure we're expecting the same from our funny book dealers as our used car dealers. give me all the info, and let me make an informed decision.

 

NOT sell what ye may and hope i never find out. because if you do that, you're going to issue a refund, and lose a customer for life

 

 

and that's my point; WHOEVER you're dealing with, if you have concerns [that might NOT be their concerns] about a product, ASK ABOUT THEM! the answer will satisfy you or NOT satisfy you. then make your decision. funny-book dealer, car-dealer, indian chief, candle-stick maker.... if for example, the 'pressing thing' ain't a big deal to the dealer, don't expect him to assume it's a big deal to you---so take care of this unknown component by expressly bringing up your concern. this 'i shouldn't have to ask' thing seems like a point of pride, but why should it be? it's the buyer's money, and if he doesn't get info suiting him, move to the next booth. or it seems to me the real problem lies with cgc not being ok with pressing and not noting it. so, DON'T buy slabbed books.

 

points taken. i think your position is a defensible one, even if it's not my own

[jjreason-migration]

If CGC wishes to maintain their reputation as the best unbiased judge of a comic's condtion, I think pressing should be noted on the label the same as any other form of "modification". If they choose to use a blue label so be it - at least it would take away the non-disclosure concerns. The fact that they don't make note of it leads me to believe that they support the practice of prettying up books by pressing - which makes sense because resubmissions equal more money for them.

 

I think if we could magically snap our fingers and made EVERY bit of restoration (incl. pressing) ever done to every book ever slabbed show up as notes on our slabs by morning - a lot of us would be very unhappy shortly after we woke up. It's like counterfeiting - the counterfeiters are always one step ahead of the counterfeit detectors.

[grider67]

My 2 cents...

 

This has to do with all comics, not just slabs.

 

I bought a Jimmy Olsen #134 (1st Darkseid) from a comic dealer I've known for a while. About 15 years. I submitted the book and it came back restored. I went back to the shop and talked to him about it and he stated that he had the book worked on. I asked for my money back and he agreed. We had a long discussion about it and he stated that it helped with sales. I explained to him, "Yes, but it doesn't help with customer service."

 

Needless to say from this experience, "I DO NOT BUY FROM THIS DEALER NOW NOR WILL I EVER!"

 

All this time (about 3 months) and money down the drain.

I'm not a flipper... I'm a collector.

This is my personal preference and my opinion.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

My 2 cents...

 

This has to do with all comics, not just slabs.

 

I bought a Jimmy Olsen #134 (1st Darkseid) from a comic dealer I've known for a while. About 15 years. I submitted the book and it came back restored. I went back to the shop and talked to him about it and he stated that he had the book worked on. I asked for my money back and he agreed. We had a long discussion about it and he stated that it helped with sales. I explained to him, "Yes, but it doesn't help with customer service."

 

Needless to say from this experience, "I DO NOT BUY FROM THIS DEALER NOW NOR WILL I EVER!"

 

All this time (about 3 months) and money down the drain.

I'm not a flipper... I'm a collector.

This is my personal preference and my opinion.

 

 

Thanks for sharing that story. I wish dealers could get past the quick buck, and think about maintaining a long-term customer base. Had the dealer just disclosed the resto upfront...not only may you have bought the book anyway(at an adjusted price), but he would have gained your trust as a customer...and your repeat business.

 

Show me how much better the book presents once you erased some of the dirt & flattened out the wrinkles. Show me that trimmed book with the beautiful spine. Show me that you have nothing to hide.....and let me judge your wares accordingly.

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

I would say this is a clear example of having it in for me. I'll welcome questions from anyone else on these boards, but not you.

Will you disclose (without being asked outright) any work done to the books you are selling in your auctions, regardless of what color the cgc label is?

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing.

 

The same could be said about color touch, pieces added, cleaning, staple reinforcement, married centerfolds, etc., etc., etc.

 

I don't know you, Matt, but the more you type, the slimier you sound to me.

 

[Aces]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

 

One thing I can't stand is a crooked pimp!

[arexcrooke]

let's see if i get this right--we need to expect more from our used funny-book dealers than we do from our used car dealers. i know some of us may spend more on a funny book than a car, but not many. the funny books we look at, and thumb up etc. if not in a slab. the cars carry our families. yeah, i think i got it. wow.

 

WELCOME TO THE BOARDS

 

I'm sorry....but I'm dumbfounded by your post. And it's not that I don't understand it....I just can't figure out what could possibly have been your motivation to post it. wow

 

Or is it..."whoa"

Im trying to figure it out as well.

Is it not too much to ask of people that we deal with to be honest? Whether it be comics, cards, coins, cars, prostitutes, teachers, businesspeople, politicians, pimps, family. I dont think it is too much to ask.

 

yeah, preeeetty sure we're expecting the same from our funny book dealers as our used car dealers. give me all the info, and let me make an informed decision.

 

NOT sell what ye may and hope i never find out. because if you do that, you're going to issue a refund, and lose a customer for life

 

 

and that's my point; WHOEVER you're dealing with, if you have concerns [that might NOT be their concerns] about a product, ASK ABOUT THEM! the answer will satisfy you or NOT satisfy you. then make your decision. funny-book dealer, car-dealer, indian chief, candle-stick maker.... if for example, the 'pressing thing' ain't a big deal to the dealer, don't expect him to assume it's a big deal to you---so take care of this unknown component by expressly bringing up your concern. this 'i shouldn't have to ask' thing seems like a point of pride, but why should it be? it's the buyer's money, and if he doesn't get info suiting him, move to the next booth. or it seems to me the real problem lies with cgc not being ok with pressing and not noting it. so, DON'T buy slabbed books.

 

points taken. i think your position is a defensible one, even if it's not my own

I agree Sal. Good points Billy. Hell, youve made 7 posts and already added more to the conversation than some tith 100xs that. You sure your not a shill come back to life?

[BlackHeartedDwarf-migratio]

....if for example, the 'pressing thing' ain't a big deal to the dealer, don't expect him to assume it's a big deal to you---so take care of this unknown component by expressly bringing up your concern.

Matt knows it's a big deal...which is why he said earlier, "I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing.".

 

 

 

[Straw-Man]

....if for example, the 'pressing thing' ain't a big deal to the dealer, don't expect him to assume it's a big deal to you---so take care of this unknown component by expressly bringing up your concern.

Matt knows it's a big deal...which is why he said earlier, "I think there is a general consensus that many collectors would pay less, or not even want a book if they knew it was pressed. This obviously encourages sellers not to disclose pressing.".

 

 

 

i don't know/care if he does or doesnt'---my point: rather than move thru a con, modifying your buying habits/inquiries from booth to booth by making a judgment call at each stop [it is a big deal to this one/it's not a big deal for this guy], ask away habitually if it's important to you. no harm done, hopefully gets your info, and promotes converstation about funny books---admit it, other than owning our funny-books, the next best thing is talking about them. if not none of us would be typing here!!

[arexcrooke]

still working on that quote function Billy?

[ericc123]

I would just like to add one or two things. First off Matt your car analogy is horrible. I sell cars. We list miles, model, make ect because those are obvious things the customer needs to know. What you may not be aware of is if a car was wrecked by the previous owner it is the law that I disclose that and the amount of $ the damages were. Also there are ways for an informed consumer to do research if they do not trust me ie Carfax Reports. There is no way for me to know if you press a book except to ask you personally. When someone wants to trade in a car that has been wrecked and fixed they get less money. Do you get less money on the books you press?

 

 

You do not disclose pressing because you KNOW it will hurt you sales. You continue to do it because you KNOW you will make more money off of the books that people do not ask about. This is DISHONEST.

 

My answer to this is simple. I will not buy any books off of you period. No one else should either. Once someone is found to be a practicer of NDP people who are bothered by this should vote with their wallet and not purchase from them anymore. Everyone on the boards can [embarrassing lack of self control] and moan as much as they want but we all know who the NDP dealers are and until we hit them were it hurts nothing will change.