Iron Fist 14 cover up for sale at CAF

[joe_collector]

However, that doesn't mean that it's all of a sudden worthless.

 

Never said it was.

 

If the resale value of a painting went from $10 million to $8 million, it still dropped, regardless of whether it's "worthless" or not.

[irchooker]

The present seller had to have known its a Milgrom when they bought it... right??

 

Not to my recollection. The cover popped up out of nowhere and was sold directly to the current owner. Sight unseen. One phone call. There was no debate over artist, it was purchased for what it is: the cover of IF #14 - 1st Sabretooth.

[joe_collector]

Not to my recollection. The cover popped up out of nowhere and was sold directly to the current owner. Sight unseen. One phone call. There was no debate over artist, it was purchased for what it is: the cover of IF #14 - 1st Sabretooth.

 

So why is it up for sale now? That kind of lax research into a purchase suggests a longterm buy, not something that would pop back onto the market.

 

Otherwise, why not find out who drew the dang thing. It would just seem logical.

[comix4fun]

We'll never know, but I will tell you that "common knowledge" has always been that Cockrum did the cover and I believe it's even listed on Comics.org as such. If you asked 20 BA collectors who drew the Iron Fist 14 cover, I'd be surprised if the vast majority didn't say Cockrum.

 

I'm a serious fan of the era, and even I would have said it was Cockrum who drew it.

 

 

Comics.org lists it was Cockrum with a ? next to it.

I would have said I "thought" it was Cockrum to, most people I know have said the same thing. Until now I don't know anyone that knew who did it for a fact.

 

Chris

[blowout]

We'll never know, but I will tell you that "common knowledge" has always been that Cockrum did the cover and I believe it's even listed on Comics.org as such. If you asked 20 BA collectors who drew the Iron Fist 14 cover, I'd be surprised if the vast majority didn't say Cockrum.

 

I'm a serious fan of the era, and even I would have said it was Cockrum who drew it.

 

 

Comics.org lists it was Cockrum with a ? next to it.

I would have said I "thought" it was Cockrum to, most people I know have said the same thing. Until now I don't know anyone that knew who did it for a fact.

 

Chris

 

Chris, you obviously know the OA market a lot better than most of us here. Do you think this information will have any impact on this covers sale price?

 

I'm assuming Bill has had no takers at 30K, but are there any collectors the would have made offers on this piece that would be reconsidering knowing that Cockrum had no involvement?

[comix4fun]

Chris, you obviously know the OA market a lot better than most of us here. Do you think this information will have any impact on this covers sale price?

 

I'm assuming Bill has had no takers at 30K, but are there any collectors the would have made offers on this piece that would be reconsidering knowing that Cockrum had no involvement?

 

Well, thanks for the compliment, I don't know everything by a long shot. But I do take my time to research these types of things.

As an opener...I don't 30K is substantially above what the seller has into it.

 

I think in the case of a normal (non-1st appearance) cover that has not sold substantially above what comparable covers to it have sold for, the artist on that particular cover and sometimes the inker will make for big swings in price.

 

I have seen Byrne/Layton covers go for almost 50% less than comparable Byrne/Austin covers. Pencillers/Inkers etc make a big difference to people when you consider any given piece of art. Only when do we get into these types of 1st appearance pieces do people tend to throw that out the window. You can either have this cover or not have it. There is no Cockrum version to acquire. I personally choose a piece based on artist, inker, and composition almost equally.

 

I personally don't assume anything about artist attribution until I get some kind of corroboration. I trust my eyes but I don't trust them that much. Your question about price would be easy to answer if this is not a 1st App piece. I don't chase 1st app pieces personally, but that is the wild card. Without this being a 1st app piece the price would indeed fall immediately if it was bought as a cockrum and sold as a milgrom. But I think the artist in this case might be secondary to someone paying that big a premium based on content and history.

 

Chris

PS...I guess the seller could say it was "plotted" or "laid out" by Cockrum as a sketch and finished by Milgrom...but that is another argument for another time.

[pkveronese]

This is a little OT - but has anybody seen any interiors from this book for sale? If so, what was the price range?

[Scheradon]

For example, I bet the cover to Hulk #181 or G.I. Joe #1 would command huge money even though Herb Trimpe is not the biggest name in original art.

 

What connection does Hulk 181 have to Iron Fist 14?

 

The cover to Iron Fist 14 has long been attributed to Cockrum, and part of the previous value of the cover is due to Dave's work on the New X-Men and his role as a seminal Marvel and DC BA artist.

 

Now that Milgrom has been confirmed as the actual artist, that throws a big monkey wrench into future values.

 

In terms of Hulk 181, there was never any question of who drew it, so why would future valuation be affected? Everyone has known it's Trimpe for decades.

 

I love Herb Trimpe's work. Always liked his Hulk too.

 

I'm pretty new to collecting OA, but to me, it's more about collecting the artwork I like and not just who drew it. I want marvel BA covers of titles I liked and collected as a kid. I don't know who drew what and don't care as long as it's an original one of a kind of a cover I really like.

 

I mean, heck, so Milgrom drew it, it's still the one and only IF #14 cover. It didn't change or alter it's appearence from when people thought Cockrum did it.

 

I don't know, maybe that's just my naive way of thinking about it.

[joe_collector]

Comics.org lists it was Cockrum with a ? next to it.

I would have said I "thought" it was Cockrum to, most people I know have said the same thing. Until now I don't know anyone that knew who did it for a fact.

 

WTF? You are trying to put more words in my mouth than a can of Alphagetti.

 

Where did I say 100% FACT, and where was IT NOT ASSUMED I was speaking personally?

 

Oh you "would have *thought*" it was Cockrum, and somehow that's different than me *assuming* it was Cockrum based on the pose and basic format of the drawing?

[comix4fun]

WTF? You are trying to put more words in my mouth than a can of Alphagetti.

 

Where did I say 100% FACT, and where was IT NOT ASSUMED I was speaking personally?

 

 

First of all I don't even know who you are...cuz ya don't sign your posts.

 

Second, you said Comics.org said it was Cockrum, I was just straightening that out for you.

 

Third, you seems to be getting all bunched up over nothing, and taking things personally for pretty much no reason.

 

I never said you said anything about 100% fact. You said that if you asked the question that "a vast majority of collectors would have said it was Cockrum" I was just clarifying what you said further that they would be confirming their thoughts, their inferences, but until now no one knew who did the cover to a dead certainty. thus it would be illogical to base a value on something that is not a fact if that fact is that important to the final calculation.

 

Oh you "would have *thought*" it was Cockrum, and somehow that's different than me *assuming* it was Cockrum based on the pose and basic format of the drawing?

 

An assumption refers to a decision. I never made a final call on this cover, I had suspicions, which I would never act on because I did not have any confirmation from anyone who would know for a fact. Assuming is just a bad idea. And you know what happens when you assume. You make an.....

 

I just disagree with you on a couple points that's all....no need to get the undies twisted.

 

Chris Caira

 

PS What was your name again?

[joe_collector]

An assumption refers to a decision. I never made a final call on this cover, I had suspicions, which I would never act on because I did not have any confirmation from anyone who would know for a fact. Assuming is just a bad idea.

 

Are you for real?

 

I mean, , picking more nits than I can count, all because I think this POS Milgrom cover is devalued by his hack artwork.

 

Get a life.

[comix4fun]

all because I think this POS Milgrom cover is devalued by his hack artwork.

 

Get a life.

 

 

Thanks for not making this personal....and thanks for signing your name.

 

When in doubt...insult...solid strategy

 

Chris Caira

 

PS,....did it just become a POS cover when you found out it was a Milgrom, after being a dreamy wonderful Cockrum in your mind all these years?

[joe_collector]

Do you own this book or something, as calling the COVER a POS is not the same thing as a personal insult. Is this cover going to get sad and cry?

 

You are too much.

[joe_collector]

PS,....did it just become a POS cover when you found out it was a Milgrom, after being a dreamy wonderful Cockrum in your mind all these years?

 

I don't like either artist, but on a scale, Cockrum is Adams compared to Milgrom.

 

Once again, do you own the cover in question or have any business or personal ties to Woo?

[comix4fun]

Do you own this book or something, as calling the COVER a POS is not the same thing as a personal insult. Is this cover going to get sad and cry?

 

You are too much.

 

 

 

You told me to get a life and berated my every comment....which is personally insulting to me. Really sad I have to explain that to you.

 

Still not signing your name? The very height of brave, open and honest discussion.

 

Chris Caira

 

PS Thanks for ignoring 75% of what I say and what I ask, its just like talking to my wife....

[joe_collector]

You told me to get a life and berated my every comment....which is personally insulting to me.

 

Go back and reread your arrogant commentary Jethro. I found it very personally insulting, which is why I'm here continuing this stupidity.

 

Your anal-geek personality type is one that I despise, so I don't think we're going to get along too well.

[comix4fun]

I don't like either artist, but on a scale, Cockrum is Adams compared to Milgrom.

 

Once again, do you own the cover in question or have any business or personal ties to Woo?

 

 

I called you out and you have no response. You said it is a hackwork POS Milgrom cover.....I asked you if it was hackwork POS when you thought it was Cockrum...you instead refuse to answer directly.

 

I know who Bill is. I have never met him and I have had ZERO deals with him in the past and none brewing in the present. And this is not my cover. But I can say that Bill has never hidden his name from me or refused to answer questions like you have.

 

This entire line of discussion must be shocking to you. I am answering questions directly and signing my REAL NAME.

 

Chris Caira

 

PS....still not letting us know who you are huh?

 

PPS I just realized the guy with almost 14,000 posts on a comics board told me to get a life...... oooh my side hurts.

[joe_collector]

Still not signing your name? The very height of brave.....

 

PS....still not letting us know who you are huh?

 

Are you threatening me? Are you saying you'd like to meet up a Con and try to beat me up?

 

Please spell out exactly what you're intoning, so I know how to reply.

[comix4fun]

so I don't think we're going to get along too well.

 

 

Especially since, as best as I can tell you are only a screen name.

Most people who have the guts to call somebody "Jethro" and tell them to "get a life" also have to guts to sign their name.

 

That was "most" people....

 

Chris Caira

 

PS Starting to feel sorry for you now.....seriously.

[joe_collector]

Most people who have the guts to call somebody "Jethro" and tell them to "get a life" also have to guts to sign their name.

 

Are you threatening me? Are you saying you'd like to meet up a Con and try to beat me up?

 

Please spell out exactly what you're intoning, so I know how to reply.