Showcase #4 Did NOT Begin the Silver Age? It Really Started With These 3 Comics

[adamstrange]

i have never had any delusions of DC primacy in the 60's, but they did get the ball rolling with Showcase #4, and that's what defining the "beginning" of the Silver Age is all about...............IMHO.

 

I guess coming from a guy that still had all of his books from that era would be the best person to get an opinion from. It still sounds to me like it was a bridge. Like an inbetween period. All you have to do is look at the number of books Marvel sold as compared to DC at that time. There are hundreds of graded Marvel books from that era and hardly any DC's. Which means the interest was with Marvel.

This is all behind my time so who am I to say anything.

Any other old-timers around from that era that can give an opinion?

 

A friend of mine grew up in that time and said the same thing as Burntboy. He noticed the DC superheros as did the kids in his neighborhood. Modern comic fandom started because of the DCs as well.

 

You see more Marvels graded because now there is more demand for them, the market is more liquid, and they generally they bring higher prices. In addition, the DC keys are generally several years older than the Marvel counterpart and are relatively tougher to find in high grade -- just ask tth2.

[tth2]

To me the defining characteristic of the silver age, at it's essence, is the return of superheroes to the forefront of American comics. Looking back in time, with no bias towards what's "better" or "cooler" or people's collecting preferences, I think it's a pretty clear line from Showcase 4 to hero primacy at DC, which in turn led directly to hero primacy at Marvel (the FF is a reaction to what DC was doing with superheroes) which in turn killed every other genre for the most part and leads us to the hero-filled shelves of today.

 

...Whatever nitpicking you want to do about the character of the stories the hero filled DC stories from 1956-1961 have one obvious and primary different with the books that preceded them (the horror/romance/adventure/war filled shelves of the post-war period from 1946-1955) and one obvious and primary connection with the Marvel books that followed- the presence of superheroes.

Exactly. Well said.

[tth2]

You see more Marvels graded because now there is more demand for them, the market is more liquid, and they generally they bring higher prices. In addition, the DC keys are generally several years older than the Marvel counterpart and are relatively tougher to find in high grade -- just ask tth2.

In addition, when comic collecting achieved critical mass around 1966 or so, many of the collectors were Marvel fans. The back issues that they scooped up and protected tended to be Marvels, which is another reason why the number of high grade Marvels from 1960-1963 tends to dwarf the number of high grade DCs from the same period.

[shadroch]

When I first recall reading comics,which was 1963-64,comics were overwhelming DC.-Superman,Batman,Green Lantern,JLA,Flash,

Legion of Super-Heroes,Hawkman,BlackHawk and The Metal Men.Obviously,I can't speak for the entire market,but as an Army brat,we moved around a bit and it wasn't until much later(maybe 1967)that my friends and I got into Marvels and even then they were not as plentiful as the DCs.Of course,we hardy ever bought comics off the newstands. We'd get them for 2 or 3 cents from some of the older kids,rarely with covers.I always tried to get the thicker ones(DC Giants) as they had more heroes.The first comic I remember buying off the newstand was Adventure 346,featuring new Legionaires and a new writer named Jim Shooter.It was a two-part story and it took me years to find #347 with the conclusion.My first newstand Marvel wasn't even a comic. It was a Captain America coloring book featuring panels from a Tales of Suspense book.By 1972,I was buying almost every Marvel Hero and only a few DCs-JLA,Flash and Brave and Bold.It took DC going to 100 page books to rekindle my interest.

[Aman619]

I remember the early Marvels as being crude ugly amateur comics next to the slick mainstream DCs. Superman, Batman etc were world famous and safe. SpiderMan? The Thing? Hulk? Who are they? What are they? Subversive!! Low rent!

 

to get a sense of the difference, picture the first licensing deals like Marvel animated cartoons made in China from actual already printed panels from the comics! to DCs forays in licensing and the media. Marvel was the real thing, though, dont get me wrong. But theyr influence and success took almost the whole decade, finally overtaking DC in sales in the early 70s (I think thats right)

[burntboy]

A historic note:

Showcase #4 came out in the summer of 1956.

Brave and The Bold #28(First JLA) came out

in the Fall of 1959

Fantastic Four #1 came out in the early Fall

of 1961.

 

So there was no rush on Marvels behalf after Showase #4.It was more than five years after Showcase revived The Flash and nearly two years after The Justice League was on the stands before Martin Goodman directed Stan "If the Justice Leauge is selling,why don't we put out a comic book that features a team of super-heroes"

 

interesting observations - and here's another one;

 

perhaps there was no rush by Marvel to mimic DC because Marvels big 3 (Cap, HT and Subby) had already been revived and failed less than a year before Showcase #4 hit the stands.................

[Aman619]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

[goldust40]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

 

If there were any plans for Atlas to ape DCs' success on the revival front (regardless of their Commie-bashing attempt a year earlier) they would've been put on the back burner when the line imploded in 1957, when the publisher's output was reduced to eight monthly titles (after previously churning out between 50 - 60) and even worse, being distributed by DC themselves.

 

Stan and Martin Goodman were too busy keeping the company afloat for that period, but of course all was to change 4 years later...

[adamstrange]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

 

Young Men 24 was Dec 53. Sub-mariner 42 (the last) was Oct 55. There are other super-hero starts and revivals in the 50s. For example, Phantom Lady was brought back in 54-55.

[buttock]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

 

If there were any plans for Atlas to ape DCs' success on the revival front (regardless of their Commie-bashing attempt a year earlier) they would've been put on the back burner when the line imploded in 1957, when the publisher's output was reduced to eight monthly titles (after previously churning out between 50 - 60) and even worse, being distributed by DC themselves.

 

Stan and Martin Goodman were too busy keeping the company afloat for that period, but of course all was to change 4 years later...

 

Sales had little - if anything - to do with this. The collapse was a function of Marvel/Atlas' distributor. I forget the specifics of it, but IIRC Marvel had all their eggs in one basket and that distributor decided to go in another direction - while the other distributor was strong-armed by DC to only send out 8 titles by Marvel.

[adamstrange]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

 

If there were any plans for Atlas to ape DCs' success on the revival front (regardless of their Commie-bashing attempt a year earlier) they would've been put on the back burner when the line imploded in 1957, when the publisher's output was reduced to eight monthly titles (after previously churning out between 50 - 60) and even worse, being distributed by DC themselves.

 

Stan and Martin Goodman were too busy keeping the company afloat for that period, but of course all was to change 4 years later...

 

Sales had little - if anything - to do with this. The collapse was a function of Marvel/Atlas' distributor. I forget the specifics of it, but IIRC Marvel had all their eggs in one basket and that distributor decided to go in another direction - while the other distributor was strong-armed by DC to only send out 8 titles by Marvel.

 

Atlas owned their own distributor which they closed down. They went with another distributor that would be sued for, essentially, being a monoply (anti-competitive practices). That firm went belly up, due to the defection of key clients because of the lawsuit. Atlas then reached an agreement with DC's distributor (which was owned by the same folks who owned DC), but had to live the restrictions that DC imposed on them.

[Aman619]

I remember that.. So what happened that freed Marvel to add books, and when? I remember in the earliest superhero days, Hulk alternated months with Night Nurse, or Linda Carter, some minor continuing title. I guess I could check the Marvel cover database sight....and figure it out.

But at some point before 1968 when the shackles came off for good, Marvel was able to expand its line to more than 8 books a month, werent they?

[buttock]

sooo, what youre saying, is that it was DC that copied Marvel in the revival business? innnnteressssting... Ive never been up on the dates of the Cap, HT and Torch revivals,, were thay only a year apart? Thought it was a lot more...

 

Another angle might be that Showcase 4, 6, 7, 8, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 22 etc didnt show a sales blip large enough for Martin Goodman to get excited enough about to try to emulate... or maybe he only just took up golf in 1961...

 

If there were any plans for Atlas to ape DCs' success on the revival front (regardless of their Commie-bashing attempt a year earlier) they would've been put on the back burner when the line imploded in 1957, when the publisher's output was reduced to eight monthly titles (after previously churning out between 50 - 60) and even worse, being distributed by DC themselves.

 

Stan and Martin Goodman were too busy keeping the company afloat for that period, but of course all was to change 4 years later...

 

Sales had little - if anything - to do with this. The collapse was a function of Marvel/Atlas' distributor. I forget the specifics of it, but IIRC Marvel had all their eggs in one basket and that distributor decided to go in another direction - while the other distributor was strong-armed by DC to only send out 8 titles by Marvel.

 

Atlas owned their own distributor which they closed down. They went with another distributor that would be sued for, essentially, being a monoply (anti-competitive practices). That firm went belly up, due to the defection of key clients because of the lawsuit. Atlas then reached an agreement with DC's distributor (which was owned by the same folks who owned DC), but had to live the restrictions that DC imposed on them.

 

Yeah, what he said.

 

I just read that whole story within the last year, do you know where it was published? I can't remember.

[Scrooge]

I just read that whole story within the last year, do you know where it was published? I can't remember.

 

Tom Lammers' 1957 Atlas Implosion in AE 49

 

[buttock]

I just read that whole story within the last year, do you know where it was published? I can't remember.

 

Tom Lammers' 1957 Atlas Implosion in AE 49

 

 

you are a gentleman and a scholar.

[Scrooge]

you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Either that or I simply have a better memory

 

On topic - Adam you mention Phantom Lady revival and Atlas SH revival. There are others. Could we try to work out an official complete list?

 

There was Blue Beetle by Charlton (?) but wasn't that later, after the DC and Marvel success? What other revival happened before Showcase # 4 ?

[adamstrange]

you are a gentleman and a scholar.

Either that or I simply have a better memory

 

On topic - Adam you mention Phantom Lady revival and Atlas SH revival. There are others. Could we try to work out an official complete list?

 

There was Blue Beetle by Charlton (?) but wasn't that later, after the DC and Marvel success? What other revival happened before Showcase # 4 ?

 

The only revival that came to mind was Phantom Lady, so I can't be certain there are others. The Avenger over at ME was definitely an example of a new superhero from 1955. I've started to put a list a together of the DC Silver Age expansion which I'll to finish and post this weekend.

[Scrooge]

I've started to put a list a together of the DC Silver Age expansion which I'll to finish and post this weekend.

Looking forward to seeing that.

[ronm3-migration]

All you have to do is look at the number of books Marvel sold as compared to DC at that time. There are hundreds of graded Marvel books from that era and hardly any DC's. Which means the interest was with Marvel.

 

You're just making it up as you go along?

 

It is quite possible. What's it to you?

 

 

[mica]

of their Commie-bashing

Commie-bashing