Recent Action #1 Sale

[Timulty]

That's the whole point. The only excuse for it not to be considered such is because of a huge scandal that basically ruined it as a restorative/conservative technique. Conservation and Restoration are situationallly based. Thus the techniques that are used must be viewed as such.

[rob_react]

That's the whole point. The only excuse for it not to be considered such is because of a huge scandal that basically ruined it as a restorative/conservative technique. Conservation and Restoration are situationallly based. Thus the techniques that are used must be viewed as such.

 

There are industry guidelines and best practices for restoration and conservation techniques. Trimming is not in that bag of tricks. This isn't about Ewert or Hammer.

[Timulty]

I thought part of the problem that the hobby is happening, is that there are no guidelines? Hence, the need for a policing group.

 

Edit: My apologies, I have totally side-tracked the discussion. It should be more a discussion about why the disparity in prices between restored and unrestored Action #1's.

[rob_react]

I thought part of the problem that the hobby is happening, is that there are no guidelines? Hence, the need for a policing group.

 

Trimming might be categorized as "restoration" within the hobby because that's the easiest bucket to fit it in, but it's NOT an acceptable restoration technique and by it's very definition it CAN'T be a conservation technique. I mean, cutting paper away is the exact opposite of conservation, right?

[Comicdey]

I thought part of the problem that the hobby is happening, is that there are no guidelines? Hence, the need for a policing group.

 

Trimming might be categorized as "restoration" within the hobby because that's the easiest bucket to fit it in, but it's NOT an acceptable restoration technique and by it's very definition it CAN'T be a conservation technique. I mean, cutting paper away is the exact opposite of conservation, right?

 

Sometimes you have to cut away the bad to save the good.

[Theagenes]

I can think of one situation where trimming interior pages could be considered conservation - books with excess paper on the edges that extends past the cover. I'm sure you've all seen these. It's due to dull blades during the original trimming process. I have a book like this and I'm terrified to take it out or put it back in it's mylar because I'm worried the excess paper will snag and tear and in fact there are some interior tears that appear to have occurred in the past due to this very thing. I have considered taking the exacto knife to it in order to prevent any future tears, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

[shapip]

Mark,

I'm curious if this was the copy that was sold at the bankruptcy auction in florida last year. Do you know?

-Peter

[Crowzilla]

No the copy from Florida last year was a 3.0

[OldGuy]

There is also market reality. These books don't come up for sale very often, and mostly in private sales. So long as the buyer doesn't mind holding onto to it for a period of time, they'll do fine, even if they paid top retail price.

 

This statement has always been the basis for my financial sucsess in comics.

I have always bought unrestored keys.I have always held them for long periods of time.I have always overpaid intially.I have NEVER NOT made money.

 

Good point Mark

 

FYI

 

When you quote people without using the quote function it makes your post hard to decipher.

[esquirecomics]

No the copy from Florida last year was a 3.0

 

Correct, not the same copy. This 4.0 was in private possession with one collector for I believe at least 15 years, if I remember what I was told.

[Thegoldenage]

I would say it was the Heritage sales that actually skewed the data on the low side. Thats what happens when you offer hundreds of expensive GA/SA books every 3-4 months, including multiple six figure books. The prices that should have been realized simply cannot be achieved. There is just so much money to go around.

 

I gotta admit Mark, I have seen a lot of things said on these boards, but no one has ever said that Heritage skews the data DOWN on the major keys. I agree with you on almost every other point, but come on now, Action 1is Action 1. It doesn't matter if there are 100 books in an auction or 1 million, there are only a certain few people who have the resources to buy this book. Either they or their agents are focused on the book in the auction, and it goes for full market value there. Heritage claims to have over 35,000 registered users in it's auction, so I seriously doubt anyone would pay more.

 

I think that you and Bechara found a guy who has a lot of money to burn and sold him the book for what he would pay. That's called capitalism. Whether he or not he did his homework and found out he was getting royally hosed is his problem. but please don't try to justify an absoloutely ridiculous, out of line with the hobby even on it's best day price on a book that would otherwise not sell for over 60k.

[Silver Surfer]

No the copy from Florida last year was a 3.0

 

Correct, not the same copy. This 4.0 was in private possession with one collector for I believe at least 15 years, if I remember what I was told.

 

Not a bad return on his money after 15 years I'm sure.

[esquirecomics]

I would say it was the Heritage sales that actually skewed the data on the low side. Thats what happens when you offer hundreds of expensive GA/SA books every 3-4 months, including multiple six figure books. The prices that should have been realized simply cannot be achieved. There is just so much money to go around.

 

I gotta admit Mark, I have seen a lot of things said on these boards, but no one has ever said that Heritage skews the data DOWN on the major keys. I agree with you on almost every other point, but come on now, Action 1is Action 1. It doesn't matter if there are 100 books in an auction or 1 million, there are only a certain few people who have the resources to buy this book. Either they or their agents are focused on the book in the auction, and it goes for full market value there. Heritage claims to have over 35,000 registered users in it's auction, so I seriously doubt anyone would pay more.

 

I think that you and Bechara found a guy who has a lot of money to burn and sold him the book for what he would pay. That's called capitalism. Whether he or not he did his homework and found out he was getting royally hosed is his problem. but please don't try to justify an absoloutely ridiculous, out of line with the hobby even on it's best day price on a book that would otherwise not sell for over 60k.

 

You don't know what you're talking about, and you're misinterpreting what I said. I particularly do not appreciate the implication that I "hosed" a customer b/c he had the money to burn. That is not how I do business.

 

I compiled sales data for Action #1s dating back 20 plus years. That included both private and publicly known sales. That included CGC grades, auction grades, page quality if I knew it, history of the book if I knew it, etc. I provided it all to him in advance of the sale. I provided every Overstreet value dating back over the entire period of the book's existence to the buyer. I gave him analysis of the percentage increases from year to year not only on the Guide but also on some sales if I knew it was the same book.

 

I made it perfectly clear to the buyer that the asking price was high on the retail side. I could not have been more completely upfront with the buyer. That is how I do business.

 

If you think that book would sell for $60k, you're completely unaware of the marketplace of this book. Tell you what, go find me 5 of them and I will give you $300,000 in cash immediately.

 

As far as my Heritage statement, I and many others have said it repeatedly that the fact that Heritage has flooded the market with expensive HG books turned it into a buyers, not a seller's, market. Prices were driven down on many expensive books b/c there is not enough cash to go around for each auction. Sure there are some books that reached record prices, but many books sold, especially in 2002-2004, and then with the Parrino auctions, at very low retail prices. Heck, even at dealer prices b/c there was ample room to buy from one Heritage auction and then sell it soon afterwards for a profit. I wasn't implying by the word "skew" that Heritage was manipulating data and perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I was referring to the fact that Heritage data does not accurately reflect the market value as it was out of sync with many other sales before and after.

[Silver Surfer]

Mark sounds like you when above and beyond and then some to educate the buyer. Can't ask for much more than that (expect for maybe a few more Timely's on your website )

[Timulty]

Mark sounds like you when above and beyond and then some to educate the buyer. Can't ask for much more than that (expect for maybe a few more Timely's on your website )

 

And Whiz Comics, Captain Marvel Adventures etc.

[Aman619]

so IS 200K a good price for a 4.0 unrestored Action #1 ??

 

How much of his 200K coul dhe recoup tomorrow if he put it on sale? Thats a good test of its "true retail value".

[Silver Surfer]

so IS 200K a good price for a 4.0 unrestored Action #1 ??

 

How much of his 200K coul dhe recoup tomorrow if he put it on sale? Thats a good test of its "true retail value".

 

My first reaction is no, he paid way too much considering how other high grade GA keys have fared lately. Hard to think that the seller wouldn't be happy if the buyer said $150,000 and that's it.

[Crowzilla]

If you think that book would sell for $60k, you're completely unaware of the marketplace of this book. Tell you what, go find me 5 of them and I will give you $300,000 in cash immediately.

 

Heck, I'll be happy to pay 60K for a 3.0 - doesn't even need to be a 4.0

 

How much of his 200K could he recoup tomorrow if he put it on sale? Thats a good test of its "true retail value".

 

I agree that this is the best test, and judging by the recent sale of a 6.5 for 250K, I would suggest that the 4.0 was definitely on the high side. The 112K sale reported in Overstreet #31 was a sale to Parrino and as noted many times on this board, most books he purchased could now be bought at the same price or less than what he paid.

 

While there is no doubt that Action #1 is one of the few Golden Age keys that consistently sells for full guide (look through those same Heritage results if you are unsure of this), best guess would place this at the 100K range if immediately offered up in a true no-reserve auction. There are very few collectors and/or dealers willing to spend six figures on a book at any given time, and even less for are actually able to pull the trigger. If this handful decided to pass at this time, the buyer is in a bad position.

But having said all that, there is still no reason to think that if held onto for several years the buyer should not be able to turn a profit.

[Aman619]

definitely be okay in the long run..... kinda reminds me of the Superman #1 in 7.5 for 250K last year or so. Pretty big number for a non-HG book (I know 7.5 IS HG for Superman 1, but I think you know what I mean....) That would have ben an easier mouthful to swallow at say $200K not 50K more.. as this would have saved the buyer 50K in the long run at say $150K

 

But its an unrestored nice looking Action 1, so ... there it is!

[Thegoldenage]

You don't know what you're talking about, and you're misinterpreting what I said. I particularly do not appreciate the implication that I "hosed" a customer b/c he had the money to burn. That is not how I do business.

 

I compiled sales data for Action #1s dating back 20 plus years. That included both private and publicly known sales. That included CGC grades, auction grades, page quality if I knew it, history of the book if I knew it, etc. I provided it all to him in advance of the sale. I provided every Overstreet value dating back over the entire period of the book's existence to the buyer. I gave him analysis of the percentage increases from year to year not only on the Guide but also on some sales if I knew it was the same book.

 

I made it perfectly clear to the buyer that the asking price was high on the retail side. I could not have been more completely upfront with the buyer. That is how I do business.

 

If you think that book would sell for $60k, you're completely unaware of the marketplace of this book. Tell you what, go find me 5 of them and I will give you $300,000 in cash immediately.

 

As far as my Heritage statement, I and many others have said it repeatedly that the fact that Heritage has flooded the market with expensive HG books turned it into a buyers, not a seller's, market. Prices were driven down on many expensive books b/c there is not enough cash to go around for each auction. Sure there are some books that reached record prices, but many books sold, especially in 2002-2004, and then with the Parrino auctions, at very low retail prices. Heck, even at dealer prices b/c there was ample room to buy from one Heritage auction and then sell it soon afterwards for a profit. I wasn't implying by the word "skew" that Heritage was manipulating data and perhaps it was a poor choice of words. I was referring to the fact that Heritage data does not accurately reflect the market value as it was out of sync with many other sales before and after.

 

Mark, I have been in this hobby for 30 years and completed my run of Action Comics nearly 10 years ago. I know where there are 9 unrestored copies of Action Comics 1 in Connecticut and Rhode Island alone. None graded and none known to the hobby at large. I found the Spokane Collection and was there when two other major Golden Age collections were uncovered. So please spare me the lecture about knowledge of this hobby. I will concede however that 60k is too low. The 3.0 sold for 58k two years ago. I am sure it would go for more now.

 

You educated the buyer about his purchase? Probably. But anyone with any brains could see from some simple research that the book you sold is worth nowhere near what you guys sold it for. My guess is that this is another JP type buyer who thinks he got a great deal. He did get a great deal. If he waits 10 years.

 

Like I said earlier, you didn't do anything wrong by selling the book at the price you did. You sold it for what he would pay. That's called capitalism, and I applaud you and Bechara on your sale.