Pressing project results--post here

[The Troll King]

It seems as what is being said is pressing is PART of the restoration process, not that pressing IS the restoration.

*shrugs*

[mica]

You said is 4 times in a sentence.

 

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

That does not make the sentence any less true. The quote sounds to me like Matt thinks pressing can be part of the restoration process. Hence the use of the term "part" in the quote itself.

[mica]

Well I can take a piece of something or PART and that doesn't mean I have the WHOLE. Sure.... Yeah.

But hopefully no one is trying to say that the PART isn't something of a larger GROUP and wouldn't be considered connected to the Group

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

Connected, sure, in the sense that pressing can be used as part of an overall attempt to restore a comic. Think of it this way: when you are baking bread, you knead the dough before putting it in the oven. Would you therefore say that kneading itself is baking? Or just a part of the process? I am assuming that is what Matt considers pressing to be (but I am not trying to put words into his mouth, mind you). Pressing a comic can be applied to restoration, but is not itself a type of restoration.

 

Hrm. That bread analogy made a lot more sense in my head.

[mica]

I am assuming that is what Matt considers pressing to be (but I am not trying to put words into his mouth, mind you).

And hopefully I haven't taken him in one direction or the other. That's why I quoted his words. And provided the actual post numbers.

I interpret his words, sure...but this gives him a chance to say he meant Y or X.

 

Some people would have us believe that Pressing is as far away from Restoration as the East is to the West. So his words that Connect or mention that it's PART of an overall process are what I focus on.

 

Many times in political circles you'll hear the phrase "they are in bed with that organization" or in cahoots.

It doesn't have to mean they are equal and the same. The connection is the key.

[mica]

Hrm. That bread analogy made a lot more sense in my head.

Perhaps it's an Ingredient of a much larger recipe.

[Red Hook]

I posted the Avengers 28 earlier with comments but the post disappeared. I'll do it again....

 

Here is the original slab..... Avengers Pacific Coast (Matt, send me back the label please - when you get a chance!) #28 9.4 CGC.

 

Slab damage to top and lesser to bottom. Front and back. Only have scan of the front before.....

 

 

Matt's notes to me on the book were simple........

 

"Avengers #28 Pacific Coast

notes: repair overhang bump top front cover and bottom back cover"

 

I had considered for a while seeking out someone to eventually press out the slab damage....it really bothered me.....

[Red Hook]

Here are scans of the book as it was broken out of the slab by Matt and received localized ND pressing. Not having held the book raw before I could not say that the book looks any flatter, it shouldn't have anyway.......I figured the book was probably pressed before it made it into the slab the first time.

 

Obviously, Matt did a great job of making the slab damage disappear. If I were looking at the book in a mylar for the first time, it would be hard to detect anything. The only thing that might make me look twice would be the extremely sharp edges resulting. But if the dealer told me it wasn't pressed, I'd have to rely on my instincts.

 

I'm not sure if I'll reslab it or not...I kinda like having it raw. I can actually page through it. I don't know if it would even garner a 9.4 again.....it has some upper corner creases that break color. No way is it a 9.6 imho.

 

If I sold it either raw or slabbed, I would make sure to include the information about what work was done on it, and by whom. I have to think that if you are going to consider localized pressing to correct slab damage as restoration...then it falls in the low range of impacting the book. In this case, I don't believe pressing would have pushed this book to a higher grade, but it did correct the disturbing damage done in the slab.

 

Red

 

[Red Hook]

Here's the back......

 

 

One other note......I observed that the book does have a slight overhang.....not enough apparently for CGC to reject it for slabbing....but it definitely made it vulnerable in the slab.

 

I'll post the other two books I received back from Matt as time allows.

 

Red

[bobpfef]

I haven't received my books back yet from Matt but I'll post scans when I do. I suspect mine weren't prime pressing candidates being older mid-grade type books but I was curious to see if they could be improved.

[Ze-man]

Matt, While I may have issues with certain aspects of your biz. I respect you as an artist. I am MOST interested in HOW the books are being pressed. I am not looking for trade secrets, but I would really like to know what is actually being done to the books when you press them. If it is not wise to press a book twice could you explain why. Any imformation you could pass along to help educate me and anyone else who might be interested would fall on eager ears. I know you stated before that you do not use heat. Well could you walk us though a cliff notes version of what you do when you press a book. isolated vs full book etc... to try and help clear up an already murky pool. As I said, trade secrets are yours to keep, I know first hand that even though a person might know HOW to make a good loaf of bread, does not mean everybody CAN make one. Skill, experience, and plain old talent play as much a part as tools of the trade.

The more we learn about pressing the more we CAN use that information to help us as we try and figure out exactly what iT is we like and or dont like about pressing besides disclosure , or lack thereof

 

Respectfully,

 

Kenny

[Red Hook]

Hey Matt....it's his birthday. You should give him what he wants!

[Matt Nelson]

Ha, Kenny gets four Margaritas, presents, a party AND my pressing secrets?!? I better get a giant thank you card in the mail!

 

What a quagmire. I can't give up secrets without threat of competition, and yet keeping secrets makes me look like I've got something to hide. The best I could do at this juncture is let the books speak for themselves. I hope I've at least dispelled some assumptions that pressing harms books.

[Matt Nelson]

I am assuming that is what Matt considers pressing to be (but I am not trying to put words into his mouth, mind you).

And hopefully I haven't taken him in one direction or the other. That's why I quoted his words. And provided the actual post numbers.

I interpret his words, sure...but this gives him a chance to say he meant Y or X.

 

Some people would have us believe that Pressing is as far away from Restoration as the East is to the West. So his words that Connect or mention that it's PART of an overall process are what I focus on.

 

Many times in political circles you'll hear the phrase "they are in bed with that organization" or in cahoots.

It doesn't have to mean they are equal and the same. The connection is the key.

 

Wow! This is some deep stuff. Okay, let me try it this way: pressing is part of the restoration process (the end after all the work is done, and the book needs to lay flat), but restoration is NOT part of the pressing process! Pressing a book after the restoration is finished makes them look so much nicer, especially after a cover has been handled during the structural repair and color touch stages.

[Matt Nelson]

Interesting that many of the participants seem to think that their books have not improved signigficantly in grade as a result of this process.

 

I think it's a good example of the fact that a large majority of books are not good pressing candidates.

 

Yes, this is absolutely true. The books submitted for this project certainly reflects that. Shadroch's comics are a good example. I thought the Spidey #100 was a great press candidate because the wave near the bottom edge was slight enough for pressing, but the Flash #177 had a massive fold through the middle, which I knew would never lie flat with a pressing. The Avengers #117 was in between these two books; it had several dents and stresses in the cover--enough to show the press results, but too many to completely remove. The book was originally in the 4.0 - 5.0 range, which is considerably lower than grades recommended for pressing.

 

I thought DM226's books were nice candidates. Those were sent off to CGC along with Darth's. Boomtown's were nice too, except for the Hanna Barbara and the Conan #9, which were both lower grade.

 

Matt,

 

I was surprised that the TWH #13 did not improve notably Comment?

 

thanks again,

 

David

 

Hi David, the Witching Hour didn't seem to have much wrong with it to begin with. That bend mid front cover that was in my notes--did that break color? I seem to remember it having the ever-so-slightest color break. That scrach you mentioned I'm not familiar with, unless we're talking about the same thing.

 

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Supergirl #1. Even though that one only grades out slightly below 6.0 (in my opinion), I thought it made huge improvements. You should post scans of that one. The Vampi #1 and Defenders #1 I don't improve much. I remember the Vampi had a few cover scuffs.

[FFB]

Matt, While I may have issues with certain aspects of your biz. I respect you as an artist. I am MOST interested in HOW the books are being pressed. I am not looking for trade secrets, but I would really like to know what is actually being done to the books when you press them. If it is not wise to press a book twice could you explain why. Any imformation you could pass along to help educate me and anyone else who might be interested would fall on eager ears. I know you stated before that you do not use heat. Well could you walk us though a cliff notes version of what you do when you press a book. isolated vs full book etc... to try and help clear up an already murky pool. As I said, trade secrets are yours to keep, I know first hand that even though a person might know HOW to make a good loaf of bread, does not mean EVERYBODY can make one. Skill, experience, and plain old talent play as much a part as tools of the trade.

The more we learn about pressing the more we use that information to help us as we try and figure out exactly what is is we like and or dont like about pressing besides disclosure , or lack thereof

 

Respectfully,

 

Kenny

 

This isn't what you asked, Kenny, but I think it's an important point so I'll raise it.

 

Not everyone presses using the same techniques, and different techniques are used for different kinds of pressing jobs. Matt may or may not use heat for specific pressing applications, but other professional restorers do. Mark Wilson specifically said that he did, and I know Tracey Heft uses heat for certain pressing techniques. There may not be a simple, single answer that will address all press jobs.

[The Troll King]

You said is 4 times in a sentence.

 

 

Yeah, I guess after reading it again it seems like it might sound a little weird, but I'm sure it is understood at least somewhat what it was I was talking about. Isn't it?

 

 

(how many "it"s are in that one!)

 

 

Also, my only post to this thread seemed to derail it a little into an english class

 

[Rip]

Sorry Matt, I've been busy lately, but I hope to post some before and after photos in the next day or so. I was really happy how the spine roll came out on the Tomahawk. The large crease/mark on the back of the HOS is still there, but its much flatter/less noticeable now. The X-Men I didn't see too much change. But I'll go into more detail soon.

[Ze-man]

Ha, Kenny gets four Margaritas, presents, a party AND my pressing secrets?!? I better get a giant thank you card in the mail!

 

What a quagmire. I can't give up secrets without threat of competition, and yet keeping secrets makes me look like I've got something to hide. The best I could do at this juncture is let the books speak for themselves. I hope I've at least dispelled some assumptions that pressing harms books.

 

Fair enough Matt, I knew I was fishing in a dry well asking you what I did. But it never hurts to ask. This experiment was meant to be used as an educational platform. And up to now I dont know anything I did not already know. I was hoping for specific examples, dealing with specific flaws and how they are dealt with in regards to the invasiveness of various forms of pressing used to remove that flaw.. And why one form of pressing might be more desirable over another from a purists viewpoint

 

So how bout this. Is there anything you CAN tell us? You know as much as anybody about pressing and paper. Since paper is pulp, pulp is fibers,and those fibers behave differently when exposed to the many different pressing mediums. FFB's correctly mentioned that there is no one answer in regards to what pressing does to a book because there are so many forms of pressing.

 

You are correct though, a quagmire it is. Keeping your trade secrets "secret" will keep you in business longer. But if there is really nothing wrong with pressing I think it is vital to openly talk about wtf it actually it that is being done to a book when it is submitted.

 

Education is all about information. The more we have, the better we can make an actual honest decision.

 

Disclosure is another beast alltogether and one that has been discussed to great end. The actual act of pressing is what interests me now, but little is really known. I think the two are intertwined to such a degree that if certain types of pressing are found to LESS harmful then other forms..then perhaps that will produce an atmosphere where dealers will openly disclose a book was pressed with type X pressing ..because everyone wil know what was actually done to the book. And the majority agrees it is benign.

 

Labeling and indentifying the various forms of pressing, not just by name, but by method and application used will help move us foward.

 

Ze-