Pressing project results--post here

[Davenport]

 

You are correct though, a quagmire it is. Keeping your trade secrets "secret" will keep you in business longer. But if there is really nothing wrong with pressing I think it is vital to openly talk about wtf it actually it that is being done to a book when it is submitted.

 

Education is all about information. The more we have, the better we can make an actual honest decision.

Ze-

I have a hard time buying the "trade secrets" reason for keeping collectors in the dark. Outside the bizarro-world of comic books it appears many professional paper conservationist publish research papers and release results of any new techniques so the broader community can benifit from the shared knowledge.

 

The people working today's comic book restoration sevices learned from someone willing to teach others. Someone willing to inform, to share their expertise and passion. Why didn't Bill Sarill hide his "trade secrets" instead of holding seminars and classes? Seminars attended by the same people who are so secretive today?

 

Anyway, here's one research paper that has excellent photos and decribes in detail a "hard-soft sandwich" no-heat flattening process. The result, especially the before and after pictures, is truly amazing.

http://aic.stanford.edu/sg/bpg/annual/v18/bp18-06.html

[Inhuman Fiend]

Anybody have a book with a spine roll pressed? It would seem like that kind of defect would be a good pressing candidate. I've got a few fairly valuable books in my collection that have moderate spine rolls...I can't afford better copies right now but I could afford to have them pressed if the hated spine roll could be removed...

[Timulty]

Buck Biggins had a Superman #10 with that defect fixed. Quite nicely, I might add.

[drbanner]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

[drbanner]

Anybody have a book with a spine roll pressed? It would seem like that kind of defect would be a good pressing candidate. I've got a few fairly valuable books in my collection that have moderate spine rolls...I can't afford better copies right now but I could afford to have them pressed if the hated spine roll could be removed...

 

Spine roll removal can be accomplished through pressing, but Matt indicated it's a more extensive procedure and I believe it would involved removing the cover, pressing the whole thing flat (not sure if the cover and interior are pressed separately, or together), then folding it and pressing it again. As noted above, there were exceptional results with the Superman 10 referred to...anyone got a link to the original thread?

[october]

Here are my results. Four of the books were mine, the fifth belongs to Blowout and I will let him post that one when he gets it back. I don't have before scans of any of them except the WW 199, but that's the only one where the defect would show up well anyway.

 

Before I get to the reviews, I went into this with a specific purpose. I chose four books with four distinct types of defects. I wanted to see how pressing affected all of them. One had a spine roll, another had stacking damage, one had moisture warping, and one had a deep NCB dent. The results were a mixed bag, but still promising enough for me to send in one more, the SHSL 1 that I bought from Rahigh. It has deep pen dents on the front cover. I will post that one when I get it back.

 

X-Men 65

Grade before: 5.0

Grade after: 7.5

This book had severe stacking/storage bends that didn't break color to the upper left and lower right corners. The pressing didn't totally remove them, and the upper left warping is still noticable, but both were greatly reduced. The lower left corner especially shows significant improvement. Worth having pressed? Not at this dollar amount, but for a more expensive book with identical defects....absolutely. Possible to tell that it has been pressed? No.

 

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

 

 

 

House of Secrets 94

Grade before: 8.5

Grade after: 8.5

This book had some light moisture rippling to the back bottom edge from distributor overspray. To be fair, I wasn't expecting this book to improve in grade, I just wanted to see what pressing would do to that type of defect. The edge is pretty flat now, and the former rippling is just BARELY noticable under raking light. Worth having pressed? Not for this book, but it would be for a book with the same defect. Possible to tell it has been pressed? Yes, if you know bronze books cold. The two printers creases on the front are now flat, and anyone who has a bronze book with these knows that they are always raised a bit. Subtle, but still a tell.

 

Phantom Stranger 13

Grade before: 7.0

Grade after: 7.0

This one surprised me. This copy had (and has) a slight spine roll that I though a pressing would make quick work of. I got it back in the exact same shape I sent it in. No change at all. I actually emailed Matt to make sure this one hadn't been overlooked, but he assured me it had been pressed. I still think it may have been an oversight. Worth having pressed? No. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

[Red Hook]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

[Comicdey]

The appearance of the WW issue is definately a welcome improvement.

[drbanner]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

 

Not sure what your point is, but I asked the question because I wanted to know if anyone (CGC) would be able to determine that a book like your Avengers, or Andy's WW 199, was pressed just by first-hand inspection (no knowledge/scans of the book "before"). The "gentlest, most non-invasive type available" of pressing is the same kind that takes 9.0's and 9.2's and makes them 9.4's or better.

[drbanner]

Good stuff Andy, the WW looks great now!

[Red Hook]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

 

Not sure what your point is, but I asked the question because I wanted to know if anyone (CGC) would be able to determine that a book like your Avengers, or Andy's WW 199, was pressed just by first-hand inspection (no knowledge/scans of the book "before"). The "gentlest, most non-invasive type available" of pressing is the same kind that takes 9.0's and 9.2's and makes them 9.4's or better.

 

I don't think Matt got into removing spine stress on any of these books....that's what takes 8.0's to 9.2's and 9.4's. None of the books he worked on for me would have had jumps in grade in my opinion. They did look nicer though....

[sterlingcomics]

Except the ones that have already been pressed...which is what, like 75% of the books in existing slabs?

 

Except yours I hope...

[sterlingcomics]

Good stuff Andy, the WW looks great now!

 

Ditto. I think one of the lessons learned from this project is that you can't take any book, stick it in a press, and go to the bank. (doesn't necessarily reflect my opinions disclaimer) Only books with certain defects would be worth going through this process...of course after you look at the cons of the costs to press, certification, and disclosure (source of many ills here) impacts.

[jbud73]

Interesting that many of the participants seem to think that their books have not improved signigficantly in grade as a result of this process.

 

I think it's a good example of the fact that a large majority of books are not good pressing candidates.

 

Ah taken out of context yet again, my apologies Jeff, But in this case I think the contextual nature of what you extrapolated is slightly misleading. The key point is according to whom?

 

You see with respect to upward mobility the only three books that have ANY scientific cause effect benefit are the 3 CGC books - diminshed by the fact that one was a slab damage case.

 

Without knowing the previous slab score its hard to draw any conclusions. The results might be minor, but what if 80% of the books were improved by a 1/2 grade or more. I'd say that still significant is applied to books with equal slight improvements but have a higher base value.

 

Depending on what this exercise was intended to prove, the base criteria was certainly flawed IMO - given that a large majority of NDP books are either former slabs about to be reslabbed, or books on their way to getting slabbed.

 

If CGC is the catalyst for the huge increase in the frequency of NDP then taking raw subjects and drawing conclusions from their finished raw state leaves something to be desired from the pragmatic perspective.

 

 

Oh yea, Matt isn't gonna agree that NDP is restoration even though it meets the definition and has been recognized as such by professional archivists and conservationist organizations. To do so would be self implicating, in lieu of the fact that he performs this process and do not openly disclose it on books he offers for sale at public auction.

[awe4one]

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

Yep...no way any of these comics would undergo a procedure in such a way to counter any of Matt's opinions on this subject. That was never going to happen. I'm willing to bet those defects being noted as lessened but still there would have gotten further treatment to eliminate altogether had this exercise been more than just a Matt Nelson advertisement for pressing.

 

Jim

[tth2]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

Interesting. So you think Matt didn`t bring out all the firepower that he could have, and is sandbagging to lessen the fear of pressing? What`s the basis for this conclusion? Not disagreeing with you, just curious what insights might have led you to this.

[shadroch]

So,Matts way to advertise his products is to showcase inferior work?I don't follow the logic here.

[tth2]

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

Wow, that was pretty significant. From the scan you really can`t tell at all, unless you know what to look for and even then, I`m not sure if I really see a difference or it`s just me seeing something I think I`m supposed to see. So in person, if you didn`t know to look for it, would you notice it?

[awe4one]

So,Matts way to advertise his products is to showcase inferior work?I don't follow the logic here.

 

No one said the work was inferior. The comics to date were mildly improved. What I'm saying is the examples we've seen so far are far less than the before and after examples we've seen with comics press improved on eBay or Heritage.

 

He's giving the impression that the process doesn't improve comics to their "fullest potential" when we've seen otherwise in the past and passing off pressing as a very minor procedure as a result. And that benefits Matt greatly in his defense of pressing.

 

Comics don't go from 4.0 to 9.0 using the method we've seen here to date...

 

Jim

[evilsly]

unless there is more to the grade bumps than mere pressing

 

it could be a combination of pressing and 'gift grades' which brings about the huge improvements in cgc scores.