Pressing project results--post here

[FFB]

So,Matts way to advertise his products is to showcase inferior work?I don't follow the logic here.

 

No one said the work was inferior. The comics to date were mildly improved. What I'm saying is the examples we've seen so far are far less than the before and after examples we've seen with comics press improved on eBay or Heritage.

 

He's giving the impression that the process doesn't improve comics to their "fullest potential" when we've seen otherwise in the past and passing off pressing as a very minor procedure as a result. And that benefits Matt greatly in his defense of pressing.

 

Comics don't go from 4.0 to 9.0 using the method we've seen here to date...

 

Jim

 

The "4.0 to 9.0" book you're referring to didn't experience that increase merely because of pressing and you know it. It increased from VG to VF/NM primarily because of a detached centerfold that was reattached.

 

Don't let the facts get in your way though.

[awe4one]

The "4.0 to 9.0" book you're referring to didn't experience that increase merely because of pressing and you know it. It increased from VG to VF/NM primarily because of a detached centerfold that was reattached.

 

No kidding...but the press job was also superior, as well as others we've seen on this Forum, to those we've seen so far from these Matt experiment copies...

 

Jim

[FFB]

The "4.0 to 9.0" book you're referring to didn't experience that increase merely because of pressing and you know it. It increased from VG to VF/NM primarily because of a detached centerfold that was reattached.

 

No kidding...but the press job was also superior, as well as others we've seen on this Forum, to those we've seen so far from these Matt experiment copies...

 

Jim

 

And just how exactly would you know that? You saw nothing more than a scan of the "4.0 to 9.0," which is the same as you're seeing on these books. In the scans, you can't see hardly any of the defects that the people say aren't completely coming out. You've never had a book pressed in your life and you know next to nothing about the process or possible results, yet you feel perfectly justified in tossing out ridiculous conspiracy theories that Matt is purposely tanking his own experiment just to cool people's fire by minimizing what he can do?

 

Well ok, Sherlock, explain this to me then. Here's a scan of a section of the back cover of a book I had Matt press about a year ago. The crease you see here is one that I fully expected Matt to be able to remove via pressing, but was disappointed to find out could only be minimized, not completely eradicated.

 

 

I suppose he tanked this press job too, just so I wouldn't be afraid of pressing?

 

And if that was his M.O., then why did he do such a great job with RedHook's PC Avengers book? Shouldn't he have maybe mashed the SCS to make it worse, and maybe spill some gravy on the book for good measure? Unfortunately (for your theory), the book looks great. Why no mention of that book in your hypothesis?

[awe4one]

You've never had a book pressed in your life and you know next to nothing about the process or possible results, yet you feel perfectly justified in tossing out ridiculous conspiracy theories that Matt is purposely tanking his own experiment just to cool people's fire by minimizing what he can do?

 

I have four comics confirmed pressed...and know the defects beforehand. I don't know if these were pressed by Matt (I'll check though). All showed much more improvement than the examples we've seen. And have a certain rigidness "feel" to boot.

 

I have been doing my homework for the last two years despite what you believe...

 

Well ok, Sherlock, explain this to me then. Here's a scan of a section of the back cover of a book I had Matt press about a year ago. The crease you see here is one that I fully expected Matt to be able to remove via pressing, but was disappointed to find out could only be minimized, not completely eradicated.

 

Hell if I know...ask Matt...

 

And if that was his M.O., then why did he do such a great job with RedHook's PC Avengers book? Shouldn't he have maybe mashed the SCS to make it worse, and maybe spill some gravy on the book for good measure? Unfortunately (for your theory), the book looks great. Why no mention of that book in your hypothesis?

 

I never said he tanked the experiment...just minimized the effort to make a point. Or if I was to give him the benefit of a doubt, maybe he didn't take the time with these as he would for a paying customer...

 

Regardless, I'd appreciate you stop with the extreme examples while trying to make your point...Thank you...

 

Jim

[Matt Nelson]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

 

The pressings were certainly gentle and non-invasive, but let me point out that all of these books went through the same exact process that the others do. Many of the books submitted for this project were simply not the best candidates, given the severity of their defects. If I were submitted these books during the regular course of business, I would reject 80-90% of them on structure alone.

 

And where's the scan of the Strange Tales? That book was a mangled mess, and it made some very significant improvements, and went through the same exact process as the Avengers. Please post the before/after scans when you get the chance.

[Matt Nelson]

Good stuff Andy, the WW looks great now!

 

Ditto. I think one of the lessons learned from this project is that you can't take any book, stick it in a press, and go to the bank. (doesn't necessarily reflect my opinions disclaimer) Only books with certain defects would be worth going through this process...of course after you look at the cons of the costs to press, certification, and disclosure (source of many ills here) impacts.

 

This is absolutely true. All the pressing in the world won't help a book if it has the wrong defects. It's all about proper screening and cost/benefit analysis. The consulting I do for my clients is the central part of my business, not pressing. When someone approaches me with the plan to buy or sell, there are several tools at our disposal, including screening, pressing, restoration, certification, auction houses, private sales, and short and long term invesment consulting. (my sales pitch, thank you)

 

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

[Matt Nelson]

Comics don't go from 4.0 to 9.0 using the method we've seen here to date...

 

Jim

 

Find the right comics, and they'll go from 4.0 to 9.0.

[awe4one]

Comics don't go from 4.0 to 9.0 using the method we've seen here to date...

 

Jim

 

Find the right comics, and they'll go from 4.0 to 9.0.

 

So educate us...isn't that the exercise here? Show us examples of comics that have flaws pressing will correct with the method you used on these books to make those jumps...

 

Jim

[october]

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

Wow, that was pretty significant. From the scan you really can`t tell at all, unless you know what to look for and even then, I`m not sure if I really see a difference or it`s just me seeing something I think I`m supposed to see. So in person, if you didn`t know to look for it, would you notice it?

 

It's still noticable in person, though not nearly as much as before. The eye appeal went up by leaps and bounds, but the technical grade "only" improved about a point or so.

[batman_fan]

Wonder Woman 199

Grade before: 8.0

Grade after: 9.0/9.2

This is just a great looking copy, but it had an unfortunate paperclip dent on the top staple. The pressing didn't totally remove it, but it reduced it to the point where it's no longer distracting. Worth having pressed? Yes. Possible to tell it has been pressed? No.

Wow, that was pretty significant. From the scan you really can`t tell at all, unless you know what to look for and even then, I`m not sure if I really see a difference or it`s just me seeing something I think I`m supposed to see. So in person, if you didn`t know to look for it, would you notice it?

 

It's still noticable in person, though not nearly as much as before. The eye appeal went up by leaps and bounds, but the technical grade "only" improved about a point or so.

 

Yes, but a point or so is pretty significant from a valuation standpoint. Based on reading this thread I am guessing many books that were sent in really were not ideal candidates.

[Comicdey]

Matt,

 

When this is all done, and everyone has posted their before and after, please provide additional commentary on the books as to why you believe they were good, or bad candidates for pressing etc. Then the board masses can use it as a tool to determine what types of damage can be fully eradicated, partially removed, or just flattened and still apparent. Also, please indicate if other pressing techniques that you are aware of might produce a different effect (wet, dry, chemical etc.) and whether dissassembly would have dramatically increased the press job that you performed. (I'm not asking blue or purple here, just aesthetically what the overall effect will be).

 

Obviously the 4.0 to 9.0 example is an extreme on (Boy 11? wasn't it) where the staple was re-attached, probably minor dry cleaned and then pressed.....I'm just guessing here and going off of memory on this as it's all what I've read on the boards from others posts.

 

Thanks

 

Collin

[Aman619]

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

 

well at least (if Im not quoting out of context) we have clarification of what its all about, finally. Getting rich, (and not just making books prettier.) Isnt that what many of us have been saying all along?

[Matt Nelson]

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

 

well at least (if Im not quoting out of context) we have clarification of what its all about, finally. Getting rich, (and not just making books prettier.) Isnt that what many of us have been saying all along?

 

I don't think there was ever any question as to money being a motivation of pressing. How did this just become clear to you?

[Ze-man]

Well since asking you directly did not garner any results. I will try a different tack.

 

What I know,correct me along the way if you would please.

 

To me the easiest and most profitable form of pressing is isolated pressing. Removal of minor to severe non color breaking flaws. These are the types of flaws that add up when you grade book from 10.0 on downward. For instance take a book with 3-4 NCBC dings,indents, gouges, bends, creases etc.. remove those dings and a 9.2 book can instantly become a 9.4 or higher if otherwise structurally sound. The books that exhibit these type of flaws are the ones that can most easily be bumped up a to such a degree that it will result in perhaps a full grade jump or better. And if this is possible to do for $25 (or less if one does it themselves) then the time/cost factor is well worth it, especially since people pay X amount over guide for HG books in the 9.6 strata.

 

How would you label this type of pressing Matt?...how invasive it is? When working on a HG book with only isolated flaws do you press the whole book? Or just work on the paticular area? I guess what I am asking is, do you ALWAYS press the entire book, even if the book only needs a spot or two rubbed out?

This type of isolated flaw pressing is the most minor form of pressing to me. But at the same time it is probably the most prevalent, and pofitable

 

If the entire book has not been squished(sorry to use that term, smushed better?), it does not bother me as much if just a corner was worked on. If we can all agree, and understand that certain types of pressing are more preferable to others, it might go along way towards the future or buying and selling, and the disclosing of pressed books.

 

Hope you can see where I am going with this. Given the types of books submitted in this thread I would like to hear specific details of not exactly how you did it, but at least tell us what process was involved for the different types of flaws submitted.

 

 

Kenny

[Aman619]

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

 

well at least (if Im not quoting out of context) we have clarification of what its all about, finally. Getting rich, (and not just making books prettier.) Isnt that what many of us have been saying all along?

 

I don't think there was ever any question as to money being a motivation of pressing. How did this just become clear to you?

 

actually you are correct. Your ads state that fact clearly. I was , I suppose, commenting on hearing you say it out loud, since the BSDs (those who do press actively for profit) never really come out and declare that the reason. They say they are label chasers and just want better books and better runs. But its the money chasing that is at the root of pressing that bothers me. I suppose if I were a broker and had my buddies all confide in me how they consistently make money hand over fist trading on insider info, and never get caught, and even suggest that they are supported institutionally in their firm due to the profits rung up, as well as the culture of anything goes - - - that I might, after prodding, be tempted to join the party, because, its UNDETECTABLE and everyones doing it!..... in time, I might come to join in too. you know,

[FFB]

Why do people always say "BSDs" when talking about people who press books? I know people who don't own a single book worth over $1000 who have had books pressed. This is really not a "haves vs. have nots" issue.

[Matt Nelson]

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

 

well at least (if Im not quoting out of context) we have clarification of what its all about, finally. Getting rich, (and not just making books prettier.) Isnt that what many of us have been saying all along?

 

I don't think there was ever any question as to money being a motivation of pressing. How did this just become clear to you?

 

actually you are correct. Your ads state that fact clearly. I was , I suppose, commenting on hearing you say it out loud, since the BSDs (those who do press actively for profit) never really come out and declare that the reason. They say they are label chasers and just want better books and better runs. But its the money chasing that is at the root of pressing that bothers me. I suppose if I were a broker and had my buddies all confide in me how they consistently make money hand over fist trading on insider info, and never get caught, and even suggest that they are supported institutionally in their firm due to the profits rung up, as well as the culture of anything goes - - - that I might, after prodding, be tempted to join the party, because, its UNDETECTABLE and everyones doing it!..... in time, I might come to join in too. you know,

 

Right on! The submission form is on my website.

[Matt Nelson]

Well since asking you directly did not garner any results. I will try a different tack.

 

What I know,correct me along the way if you would please.

 

To me the easiest and most profitable form of pressing is isolated pressing. Removal of minor to severe non color breaking flaws. These are the types of flaws that add up when you grade book from 10.0 on downward. For instance take a book with 3-4 NCBC dings,indents, gouges, bends, creases etc.. remove those dings and a 9.2 book can instantly become a 9.4 or higher if otherwise structurally sound. The books that exhibit these type of flaws are the ones that can most easily be bumped up a to such a degree that it will result in perhaps a full grade jump or better. And if this is possible to do for $25 (or less if one does it themselves) then the time/cost factor is well worth it, especially since people pay X amount over guide for HG books in the 9.6 strata.

 

How would you label this type of pressing Matt?...how invasive it is? When working on a HG book with only isolated flaws do you press the whole book? Or just work on the paticular area? I guess what I am asking is, do you ALWAYS press the entire book, even if the book only needs a spot or two rubbed out?

This type of isolated flaw pressing is the most minor form of pressing to me. But at the same time it is probably the most prevalent, and pofitable

 

If the entire book has not been squished(sorry to use that term, smushed better?), it does not bother me as much if just a corner was worked on. If we can all agree, and understand that certain types of pressing are more preferable to others, it might go along way towards the future or buying and selling, and the disclosing of pressed books.

 

Hope you can see where I am going with this. Given the types of books submitted in this thread I would like to hear specific details of not exactly how you did it, but at least tell us what process was involved for the different types of flaws submitted.

 

 

Kenny

 

Hi Kenny, sorry to give you the idea I was dodging your questions. There are so many different defects, different companies, genres, and periods, different kinds of paper (even from issue to issue), and different ways a book can age over time, that there is no one, or two, or even twenty ways to press a book. Each book is unique, and sometimes requires special consideration when pressing, or even restoring it. Overall the process is the same, but there are subtle variations to each job. If someone with no knowledge of comic history or work experience started pressing comics--even if they had the right techniques--would certainly damage some books, or cause telltale signs that the books had been pressed.

 

I've discussed intent in the articles I've written on pressing, and I think it applies here. If the book sitting in front of you, or CGC, shows no signs of pressing, it doesn't matter what grade that book was before, nor how many defects were removed. It is what it is, and that is the only way it can be fairly graded.

[Aman619]

Why do people always say "BSDs" when talking about people who press books? I know people who don't own a single book worth over $1000 who have had books pressed. This is really not a "haves vs. have nots" issue.

 

I was talking about the guys at the top who should be satisfied with their 9.4s they bought for 'pennies' and not worry about pressing them into 9.6s. Youre right, lots of others do it, but not on the insider grabnd scale these guys do. You KNOW what/who I mean.

[Aman619]

The point is, pressing alone will not make you rich. It's simply one of many tools to get you where you're going.

 

well at least (if Im not quoting out of context) we have clarification of what its all about, finally. Getting rich, (and not just making books prettier.) Isnt that what many of us have been saying all along?

 

I don't think there was ever any question as to money being a motivation of pressing. How did this just become clear to you?

 

actually you are correct. Your ads state that fact clearly. I was , I suppose, commenting on hearing you say it out loud, since the BSDs (those who do press actively for profit) never really come out and declare that the reason. They say they are label chasers and just want better books and better runs. But its the money chasing that is at the root of pressing that bothers me. I suppose if I were a broker and had my buddies all confide in me how they consistently make money hand over fist trading on insider info, and never get caught, and even suggest that they are supported institutionally in their firm due to the profits rung up, as well as the culture of anything goes - - - that I might, after prodding, be tempted to join the party, because, its UNDETECTABLE and everyones doing it!..... in time, I might come to join in too. you know,

 

Right on! The submission form is on my website.

 

.

 

I might, if the rest of that post werent obviously : ..." if I werent so squeaky clean and god fearing and perfect in every way, that is!"