Pressing project results--post here

[Red Hook]

I'm real curious to see some before/after scans, and if forum members feel they would be able to tell that their books had been pressed without any prior knowledge of their condition.

 

So far, I have not read anything from any of the participants indicating they would be able to tell their book had been pressed. Anyone?

 

You expected something different? This exercise is what I would consider to fall under the category of a "controlled experiment".

 

The pressing done on these books was of the gentlest, most non-invasive type available. Just pointing that out.

 

The pressings were certainly gentle and non-invasive, but let me point out that all of these books went through the same exact process that the others do. Many of the books submitted for this project were simply not the best candidates, given the severity of their defects. If I were submitted these books during the regular course of business, I would reject 80-90% of them on structure alone.

 

And where's the scan of the Strange Tales? That book was a mangled mess, and it made some very significant improvements, and went through the same exact process as the Avengers. Please post the before/after scans when you get the chance.

 

I plan to Matt......live impinges at times. I'll get them up this weekend. And by the way, I never questioned your motivations....I think I reported my observations in a pretty unbiased manner. I don't agree with the use of the phrase "tanked" in this thread. That's not what I was implying.

[Davenport]

Why do people always say "BSDs" when talking about people who press books? I know people who don't own a single book worth over $1000 who have had books pressed. This is really not a "haves vs. have nots" issue.

 

I was talking about the guys at the top who should be satisfied with their 9.4s they bought for 'pennies' and not worry about pressing them into 9.6s. Youre right, lots of others do it, but not on the insider grabnd scale these guys do. You KNOW what/who I mean.

I see the issue more as "pro-hustlers vs. the unwitting".

 

That's how it strikes me. Professional gamers working a System (with a wink & nod to the (CGC) Gaming Commission, who could care less), that fleeces others who sit at the table.

 

The System allows hustlers to convert their game pieces and reinsert them at a higher value: "How's it feel to be a winner my friend, and hey, check that Commission stamp. Sweet huh? Yessir, it's a gen-u-wine $2500 chip you won there, fair and square (even though it was a $500 chip when I won it last month, you dimwit loser).

 

I'm assuming "to get you where you're going" means "to repeatedly head for the Cashier's Cage with your pockets stuffed , Playa".

[FFB]

Why do people always say "BSDs" when talking about people who press books? I know people who don't own a single book worth over $1000 who have had books pressed. This is really not a "haves vs. have nots" issue.

 

I was talking about the guys at the top who should be satisfied with their 9.4s they bought for 'pennies' and not worry about pressing them into 9.6s. Youre right, lots of others do it, but not on the insider grabnd scale these guys do. You KNOW what/who I mean.

 

What difference does that make? Pressing is pressing. Why single out the BSDs for your scorn when there are plenty of non-BSDs who apparently should be just as deserving?

[Red Hook]

Matt....I have to rush off (to dinner with Lady Redhook) but I did a quick scan of the Strange Tales......and I agree with you....this books showed a significant cosmetic improvement. After getting bruised with my last set of submissions to CGC....I can't say how much of a jump in grade the pressing would garner this......fell free to add your own comments....I'll add more when I get back.

 

Brad

 

 

This is the original scan of the front...followed by the a scan of the "after" process.

 

[Red Hook]

Here's the 125 as it came back......nice!

 

[Red Hook]

Back of the book, which in Matt's words was "mangled".

 

After scan.......

 

[namisgr]

Hey, Brad, the X14 looks really nice! What do you think of the change on that one?

[FFB]

And now for the money question -- could you tell it had been pressed if you hadn't seen it before you sent it to Matt?

 

Back of the book, which in Matt's words was "mangled".

 

After scan.......

 

[Ze-man]

It is what it is, and that is the only way it can be fairly graded.

 

 

This point brings to fore what I was getting at.Yes once it is prressed it is what it is, and will be graded accordingly.

 

But if disclosure is to ever move foward, and pressing is to become more accepted for what it is I think it needs to be determined wether or not the different types of pressing should be dealt with the same way the various forms of recognized restoration are. Personally I dont mind a spot or two of CT on a spine, but cannot stand pieces added. They are obviously different levels of invasiveness. The same as spot pressing a corner crease, or pressing the whole book in a press are different.

 

But since we cannot detect it, the need to label it appears to be a moot point. Unless those doing the pressing lead the way and stop thinking with their wallets first. And I understand all too well when thet will happen.

 

I wil stop barking up this tree, I admit frustration to your lack of direct answers. I have to accept your right to pick and choose what you answer. I just dont like what I got. I will have to get over it.

 

I want you to speak freely about what you know, I am greedy that way.

 

 

Kenny

[Red Hook]

And now for the money question -- could you tell it had been pressed if you hadn't seen it before you sent it to Matt?

 

 

 

No. But that's no surprise, especially since it's localized ND pressing. I don't think anyone ever claimed to be able to detect pressing at this low-impact level.

 

The real money question would be....."If I knew it had been pressed, would I tell the person I was selling it to."

 

I would.

 

Especially if the work had been done by a professional like Matt, in which case.....it should actually be a selling point. It's the dealers who continue to act as if it's something shady.

 

I still think any buyer has the right to know as much information as is available about a book he or she is being asked to pay $$$ for. Then it becomes, rightly, a matter of personal choice.

 

Frankly, I think pressing at this level should

 

a) be considered restoration

b) always be disclosed

c) not have a major negative effect on the sale price.

 

The thing is, there are several issues interwoven here. One is about technical analysis. Another is about consumer advocacy. Another is about motivation. And another is about the unknown factor....the long term effects of all types of pressing.

 

It would be interesting if it reached the point where Matt would proudly proclaim "Goddam it, YES, this book was pressed, by me, and I did a DAMN good job. Here's the documentation regarding the work I did on the book.....and my lifetime guarantee that the book will never revert back to it's former state, in or out of a slab."

 

If the theory that only a small minority of collectors are really bothered by the concept of pressing is really true....then why hold back from being publicly upfront about the work done on a book?

[Red Hook]

Hey, Brad, the X14 looks really nice! What do you think of the change on that one?

 

That's the before pic. I'll post the front and back "after" scans by tomorrow.

 

B

[Red Hook]

 

BTW....in the top picture of the Strange Tales..., you'll notice that there is spine stress exhibited in a couple of places. Matt did not address those, because I assume that would have meant disassembly. Is that correct Matt? And I assume you could have made those stress marks disappear if you'd taken this demonstration to the next level...right?

[THE_BEYONDER]

The real money question would be....."If I knew it had been pressed, would I tell the person I was selling it to."

 

 

Exactly right.

 

It is that question that each of us must ask ourselves.

 

Yes or no.....the question of "why?" inevitably follows. One's explanation defines there 'stance' on this issue.

[Ze-man]

The real money question would be....."If I knew it had been pressed, would I tell the person I was selling it to."

 

 

Exactly right.

 

It is that question that each of us must ask ourselves.

 

Yes or no.....the question of "why?" inevitably follows. One's explanation defines there 'stance' on this issue.

 

We need to fetch a child, around age 5 will do.

 

They will make sense of all this.

 

 

 

Ze-

[Red Hook]

Ellen will do. I hear she's pretty smart.

[Davenport]

 

It would be interesting if it reached the point where Matt would proudly proclaim "Goddam it, YES, this book was pressed, by me, and I did a DAMN good job. Here's the documentation regarding the work I did on the book.....and my lifetime guarantee that the book will never revert back to it's former state, in or out of a slab."

 

If the theory that only a small minority of collectors are really bothered by the concept of pressing is really true....then why hold back from being publicly upfront about the work done on a book?

[FFB]

And now for the money question -- could you tell it had been pressed if you hadn't seen it before you sent it to Matt?

 

 

 

No. But that's no surprise, especially since it's localized ND pressing. I don't think anyone ever claimed to be able to detect pressing at this low-impact level.

 

The real money question would be....."If I knew it had been pressed, would I tell the person I was selling it to."

 

I would.

 

Especially if the work had been done by a professional like Matt, in which case.....it should actually be a selling point. It's the dealers who continue to act as if it's something shady.

 

I still think any buyer has the right to know as much information as is available about a book he or she is being asked to pay $$$ for. Then it becomes, rightly, a matter of personal choice.

 

Frankly, I think pressing at this level should

 

a) be considered restoration

b) always be disclosed

c) not have a major negative effect on the sale price.

 

The thing is, there are several issues interwoven here. One is about technical analysis. Another is about consumer advocacy. Another is about motivation. And another is about the unknown factor....the long term effects of all types of pressing.

 

It would be interesting if it reached the point where Matt would proudly proclaim "Goddam it, YES, this book was pressed, by me, and I did a DAMN good job. Here's the documentation regarding the work I did on the book.....and my lifetime guarantee that the book will never revert back to it's former state, in or out of a slab."

 

If the theory that only a small minority of collectors are really bothered by the concept of pressing is really true....then why hold back from being publicly upfront about the work done on a book?

 

Since just about everyone taking part in the experiment already said they would disclose it, that isn't the money question because we already knew the answer.

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with all your points about it being restoration, but I don't think we'll ever get to the point where dealers will feel comfortable disclosing pressing so long as there are a few vocal people who scream with evangelical fury that pressers are greedy scum suckers who should rot in hell (or some such). Personally, I don't know why dealers really care what those few collectors say, but it seems that they do.

[tth2]

I don't agree with the use of the phrase "tanked" in this thread. That's not what I was implying.

Well, more than one of us interpreted your statement that way. So what WERE you really trying to imply then?

[Red Hook]

Gee, it's all or nothing with you, eh?

 

How about, "approached the demonstration with extreme caution".

[Red Hook]

 

As for the rest of your post, I agree with all your points about it being restoration, but I don't think we'll ever get to the point where dealers will feel comfortable disclosing pressing so long as there are a few vocal people who scream with evangelical fury that pressers are greedy scum suckers who should rot in hell (or some such). Personally, I don't know why dealers really care what those few collectors say, but it seems that they do.

 

 

 

Well, they keep acting like it's a scam, so it feeds itself.

 

Also. if the general public and comic buying masses became aware of the issues about pressing (even it's existance)....they'd lose a little control over the lid that's been kept on the discussion (mainly limited to these boards) and who knows where that might lead.

 

Besides, a most of the critics of non-disclosure are not name-calling or screaming at all. Give us a little credit.