Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman

[bluechip]

I'd heard so many references to this thread I had to check it out and just want to say, can't it be said that a book should be increased in value without having to say that at the same time that some other book must be lowered in value?

 

After seeing that approach with restored books, it seems to guide some of the thinking here. Like in order for Obadiah Oldbuck to be worth more money it is first necessary to bring down the appreciation for and the value of Superman 1.

 

Is there some cosmic balance thing I am missing?

 

If you add to one, you must take from another, sort of thing?

 

Yes Bob...you are missing something...in this entire thread, you will not see me in any way diminish Action 1...I have said repeatedly I think it is the single most important comic book ever printed.

 

Guess I was looking at the Obadiah vs. Superman thread head, which implies one must win over the other. Come to think of it, that could be fun in a Godzilla vs.Bambi kind of way.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Yo Bluechip

 

You were looking at correct thread, and i can see how you could come to the conclusion you did

 

Me, for the record, got into this thread some time after it was begun by Steve M, as my comics research was being besmirched last summer - and i kind of stayed to hang around for a while

 

My main focus was to defend the research as a serious look-see into why i compiled what i have done to date in the decade long unfolding of what i see as proper comic strip book history beginning in America in 1842

 

It seems to me some of the other listers here equate importance with price point, a concept i do not subscribe to.

 

Action #1 will remain the most valuable comic book for the forseeable future, but i do not subscribe to the concept is it the most important

 

To me, there are a number of important milestones, equally important, irregardless of short term monetary demand which has fluctuated over the decades. Once upon a time, for example, Marvel (Mystery) Comics #1 October, 1939, was listed in Overstreet as "most valuable"

 

The debate grew quite heated for a while, as i am sure in my historical inquiries researching the origins of American comic strip/books, hence, cannot be swayed until smoking gun proof hits me, something not yet accomplished by any one who has posted here to date.

 

And i find it humorous that some here have thought Steve M to be either Krazy Kat and now bluechip - why, i do not fathom

[ciorac]

I'd heard so many references to this thread I had to check it out and just want to say, can't it be said that a book should be increased in value without having to say that at the same time that some other book must be lowered in value?

 

After seeing that approach with restored books, it seems to guide some of the thinking here. Like in order for Obadiah Oldbuck to be worth more money it is first necessary to bring down the appreciation for and the value of Superman 1.

 

Is there some cosmic balance thing I am missing?

 

If you add to one, you must take from another, sort of thing?

 

Yes Bob...you are missing something...in this entire thread, you will not see me in any way diminish Action 1...I have said repeatedly I think it is the single most important comic book ever printed.

 

Guess I was looking at the Obadiah vs. Superman thread head, which implies one must win over the other. Come to think of it, that could be fun in a Godzilla vs.Bambi kind of way.

 

Nice to see some sanity interjected into this thread bluechip! Thanks!

 

Come to think of it, that could be fun in a Godzilla (Action 1) vs.Bambi (Obadiah Oldbuck) kind of way.

[ciorac]

Yo Bluechip

 

You were looking at correct thread, and i can see how you could come to the conclusion you did

 

Me, for the record, got into this thread some time after it was begun by Steve M, as my comics research was being besmirched last summer - and i kind of stayed to hang around for a while

 

My main focus was to defend the research as a serious look-see into why i compiled what i have done to date in the decade long unfolding of what i see as proper comic strip book history beginning in America in 1842

 

It seems to me some of the other listers here equate importance with price point, a concept i do not subscribe to.

 

Action #1 will remain the most valuable comic book for the forseeable future, but i do not subscribe to the concept is it the most important

 

To me, there are a number of important milestones, equally important, irregardless of short term monetary demand which has fluctuated over the decades. Once upon a time, for example, Marvel (Mystery) Comics #1 October, 1939, was listed in Overstreet as "most valuable"

 

The debate grew quite heated for a while, as i am sure in my historical inquiries researching the origins of American comic strip/books, hence, cannot be swayed until smoking gun proof hits me, something not yet accomplished by any one who has posted here to date.

 

And i find it humorous that some here have thought Steve M to be either Krazy Kat and now bluechip - why, i do not fathom

 

Nice Reader's Digest version of the thread Bob!

 

Bob is right, bluechip, some on this thread did try to make a case that Action 1 was more important than Obadiah Oldbuck, and moreover that it is the most important comic book ever printed. And he is also right that some tried to use the argument that value equated to importance.

 

I was not one of those people. In fact I went WAY out of my way to remove any mention of value in terms of how much the comic is/was worth in my argument as to why Action #1 is unquestionably the most important comic book in the history of comics. Read back through the posts in this thead, and you will see clearly how I made the case for the book. So convicingly was the case made that Showcase 4 changed his mind and agreed that it was! Quite a moment on the Boards it was. We all wept and cheered.

 

Somehow though, Bob always goes back to the money argument, when I never ONCE mentioned it as a contributing factor in Action #1's importance. I agree with him that that there are many other important books in comics history, MANY of which are not superhero books (I collect many genres of comics). But in my, and the overwhelming majority of comics collectors I know, opinion, Action #1 is the icon of icons, the "capo de tuti capo", the BIG DOG, that all others pale in comparison to.

 

Where do you sit on this fence?

[BLBcomics-migration]

Yo Bill P,

 

i would add here that you were the LAST person on my feeble mind when bringing up what i did, as i distinctly said "last summer" when i first got here, i believe, you had not yet arrived here on this thread. And you very much went out of yer way to state otherwise re "value"

 

Other listers here, though not me, are more than welcome to pontificate that Superman was the most important character ever created, that Action #1 was the most important comic book ever printed, that Action 1 will always be the most valuable comic book ever - your individual opines, to be sure,

 

I was referring to them there "others" who equated most money with most important - not you, so please do not assume a defensive posture

 

Status Quo has a habit of morphing after a while - especially "most important" status qou concepts

 

Remember when Marvel (Mystery) #1 was King Junk Yard Dog?

 

Obadiah Oldbuck, on the other hand, is the first comic book in America, though not the first comic book worldwide, not by a long shot, and time will tell where the monetary musical chairs will take those dollar values

[mica]

I was referring to them there "others" who equated most money with most important - not you, so please do not assume a defensive posture

Since I was one of about 15 people in this thread, I don't want to be labeled as one of them there "others" as well.

In fact I don't recall a single one that made mention of value in this thread.

I'd like you to show me where someone did.

 

You'll fire back and say that you're too busy with all of that research (in fact you just might go into detail )

 

Even if you did find one post where someone said that, I'm sure it was a VAST minority.

[showcase4]

my recent confession from another post:

 

 

 

 

"You are off to a much better start than I was ! (this is kind of an inside joke for others reading this...check out the 1st 5 pages of the thread "Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman" and you'll see what I mean)

Steve

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

That is an understatement. I must say, You have started three other threads since then, that I very much enjoy, and I am willing to forgive you for the OO thing.

 

Mike

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

You see Ken, it's like this...........when I decided to become active on the Boards about 5 months ago or so, I dove right in after only reading a few posts, and started my own thread. Never got a feel for the Boards, learned the unspoken rules ( there are alot by the way), just plunged in head 1st holding my nose and had my eyes closed.

 

That normally would be OK, except I choose a very contraversial subject that I had no idea would be so contraversial until I was deep into it...fighting for air to stay alive!

 

In the market I focus on - Platinum and Victorian Age keys, there is no bigger book than Obadiah Oldbuck...it is a true Grail in that world.....well, guess what? This ain't that world..this is a Golden Age thread, and my Grail was more like a piece of overpriced Fools Gold to the members of this GA community. I went from "wow, I can't believe Showcase-4 has 3 copies of Oldbuck!" to "there's a sucker born every minute" overnight. That triggered me to get very defensive, and not care what people on the Boards thought because they didn't know what they were talking about, etc etc.

 

But they do know, and I do care what they think, and I like the Boards, and value everyones opinion that posts here. These are now my GA cyberspace friends"

[mica]

Well I just took a stroll through memory lane of this thread looking for examples of

(((((((((( I was referring to them there "others" who equated most money with most important - not you, so please do not assume a defensive posture )))))))

And I didn't see any. I did find these samples where Values are being discussed

showcase-4

 

the oldest coins are the most valuable. The oldest stamps are the most valuable.

the oldest baseball cards are the most valuable. [

 

The time is coming soon when the oldest comic books will also be the most valuable...

it is inevitable. All undervalued markets correct themselves at some point.

Obadiah Oldbuck will surface as the Declaration of Independance of the US comic marketplace

comicdonna (regarding Obadiah's value)

 

 

If the interior pages are made of hemp. It probably has a higher street value vs a collectible.

seank

 

 

I have exactly zero Superman comics in my collection and as a matter of historical importance (IMHO)

(financial factors ignored for the sake of argument), I'd rather have an Action #1 or a Superman #1 than an Obadiah Oldbuck.

I'm still looking.

[bluechip]

dost we talk of mammon too much?

 

As the woman once said, after being declared a witch... "it's a fair cop"..

 

at least considering the tone of the recent posts, which ended up being about significance and money.

 

Perhaps once I locate my errant password to yon photobucket account, I can post some pictures to divert the course of discourse onto some obscure and amazing imagery from comics past. .

[ciorac]

Yo Bill P,

 

i would add here that you were the LAST person on my feeble mind when bringing up what i did, as i distinctly said "last summer" when i first got here, i believe, you had not yet arrived here on this thread. And you very much went out of yer way to state otherwise re "value"

 

Other listers here, though not me, are more than welcome to pontificate that Superman was the most important character ever created, that Action #1 was the most important comic book ever printed, that Action 1 will always be the most valuable comic book ever - your individual opines, to be sure,

 

I was referring to them there "others" who equated most money with most important - not you, so please do not assume a defensive posture

 

Status Quo has a habit of morphing after a while - especially "most important" status qou concepts

 

Remember when Marvel (Mystery) #1 was King Junk Yard Dog?

 

Obadiah Oldbuck, on the other hand, is the first comic book in America, though not the first comic book worldwide, not by a long shot, and time will tell where the monetary musical chairs will take those dollar values

 

Thanks, as always, Bob for the clarification. Never defensive, always prepared.

 

I do remember when Marvel #1 was first, fourth, eighth, etc.

 

I could care less about the value, or what is top dollar this month, last month, or two years from now. History is what it is. Action #1 shall always remain the most important comic book ever published.

 

I for one hope the price drops so I can by another one!!

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

I was referring to them there "others" who equated most money with most important - not you, so please do not assume a defensive posture

Since I was one of about 15 people in this thread, I don't want to be labeled as one of them there "others" as well.

In fact I don't recall a single one that made mention of value in this thread.

I'd like you to show me where someone did.

 

You'll fire back and say that you're too busy with all of that research (in fact you just might go into detail )

 

Even if you did find one post where someone said that, I'm sure it was a VAST minority.

 

I think there were quite a few more than 15 people popping in & out of this thread, i label no one in particular, you know who you are, you feel what you feel, more power to every facet of opine the world has to offer. This thread was ongoing for almost two months before i got snookered into it

 

I am not about to trace back thru this thread's almost couple thousand posts, cuz, as a matter of fact, i am "busy" as the annual rite of revamp on the three history articles and two price indexes i compile for the Overstreet PG has begun here in my comicbookland, some thing that will eat up my spare time between now and when it goes off to press early next year

 

Some guys on my Plat list have begun to pony up their contribs of new listings, opines of rarity, scarcity, and stuff thought to be common as dirt etc as well as my own research has to be shoe-horned into an ever confining amount of space.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Thanks, as always, Bob for the clarification. Never defensive, always prepared.

 

I do remember when Marvel #1 was first, fourth, eighth, etc.

 

I could care less about the value, or what is top dollar this month, last month, or two years from now. History is what it is. Action #1 shall always remain the most important comic book ever published.

 

I for one hope the price drops so I can by another one!!

 

 

Me three - i want prices of the "big" books to drop so i can afford them once again, having had 4 copies of Tec 27 time gone past, including the Tom Reilly "San Fran" VF/NM copy and it has been way too long since i contemplated buying a 5th due to price point even for low grade

 

And just cuz 14 people here said it Action 1 is "most important" does not make it so - conversely, just cuz i have done some research into America's comics time line does not make all my pontifications absolutely correct - and i welcome concrete commentary disproving what ever i think i have uncovered

 

The comic strip book market in America would have grown quite nicely with or without Superman

 

Comics in America was already a well established industry for decades before Superman

[ciorac]

Thanks, as always, Bob for the clarification. Never defensive, always prepared.

 

I do remember when Marvel #1 was first, fourth, eighth, etc.

 

I could care less about the value, or what is top dollar this month, last month, or two years from now. History is what it is. Action #1 shall always remain the most important comic book ever published.

 

I for one hope the price drops so I can by another one!!

 

 

Me three - i want prices of the "big" books to drop so i can afford them once again, having had 4 copies of Tec 27 time gone past, including the Tom Reilly "San Fran" VF/NM copy and it has been way too long since i contemplated buying a 5th due to price point even for low grade

 

And just cuz 14 people here said it Action 1 is "most important" does not make it so - conversely, just cuz i have done some research into America's comics time line does not make all my pontifications absolutely correct - and i welcome concrete commentary disproving what ever i think i have uncovered

 

The comic strip book market in America would have grown quite nicely with or without Superman

 

Comics in America was already a well established industry for decades before Superman

 

If we only had what we used to have huh Bob? I get woozy sometimes thinking about all the great stuff I used to own, and sold thinking it would come my way again.

 

sigh...

 

You'll just have to trust me that a good deal more than 14 people think Action #1 is the biggest book of them all. In fact, you are the only comic collector that I know personally that thinks otherwise. And you KNOW how many comic collectors I know. I don't know them all, but I know hundreds. There might be some on this board who don't think it is, but I have never met them, or spoken to them.

 

Comics may have continued to develop nicely had Supey never came along, but thankfully that will always just be conjecture, because (blissfully) he did.

[The Black Hand ®]

And what a huge part of our pop culture superman became. Simply emormous. It makes me wonder how comics would have developed even with WWII on the horizon.

[BLBcomics-migration]

my 14/15 person reference was some one who said that was all the total number who posted on this here thread - so, did you read all the recent posts? I made an attempt at a "funny"

 

My surmise is that much of the CGC posting community is primarily super hero driven, granted there are a bunch here into other types of comics, but, primarily, super spandex orientation

 

That said, i know a LOT of serious comics collectors who do not collect any type of super hero what so ever - they have a LOT of comics and i venture to guess that 99% of them do not inhabit this bastion of slab commerce

 

and when some one says "biggest" comic book, that intones possible high value concepts, correct me if i be wrong, and if wrong, why am i wrong to surmise such an interpretation?

 

Re Superman and Conjecture Land, that was all it was, an observation that the comics industry was BIG TIME in America long before Supes landed near Smallville and i have been a Superman fan since being a wee tyke - and still enjoy re-reading same

 

and would have continued to grow in a huge way with or without Supes popping up in Action 1

[BLBcomics-migration]

And what a huge part of our pop culture superman became. Simply emormous. It makes me wonder how comics would have developed even with WWII on the horizon.

 

Comics were hugely popular long before Superman came on the set. Sure, Superman is a huge cultural pop icon - that simply is not the issue.

 

Anyone who argues that Superman has not been super popular over the decades is s t u p i d.

 

I have never argued in that department.

 

- i wonder why some here think otherwise that Superman jump started an industry. No, he did not

 

The comics industry was firmly well established with over 100 million readers in America (as in most of the population) before Superman came on the set.

 

And most of those comics readers were not reading Superman

 

What we will never know is how the comicbook industry would have evolved without Superman

 

Would we have had Carl Barks doing Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge?

 

Or Gottfredson doing Mickey Mouse, then others keeping up the story lines

 

Would John Stanley & Irving Tripp transformed Little Lulu from Marge's Saturday Evening Post single panel cartoon which started in 1934?

 

Would Will Eisner brought us The Spirit?

 

Would Hal Foster not invented Prince Valiant?

 

Would Chic Young continued Blondie?

 

How about Bringing Up Father by McManus? Maybe he would have quit comics cuz there was no Superman

 

What about Milton Caniff going from Terry & the Pirates to Steve Canyon?

 

Or Al Capp bringing out Li'l Abner

 

Maybe Kurtzman would not have thought up MAD

 

One could go on & on - there are thousands of other comics pop culture inventions enjoyed by many millions: Skippy, Tarzan, Buck Rogers, The Phantom, Brick Bradford, Flash Gordon, Alley Oop, Tracy, Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Tom Mix, etc

 

and all these appeared in comicbooks - and so much more - and many of them were read by way more people than those who read Superman

 

But a world without Superman? I would not actually like to think of such a world

[The Black Hand ®]

Jeepers Bob, I was just about to say the same thing. Don't your fingers ever get sore?

[ciorac]

my 14/15 person reference was some one who said that was all the total number who posted on this here thread - so, did you read all the recent posts? I made an attempt at a "funny"

 

My surmise is that much of the CGC posting community is primarily super hero driven, granted there are a bunch here into other types of comics, but, primarily, super spandex orientation

 

That said, i know a LOT of serious comics collectors who do not collect any type of super hero what so ever - they have a LOT of comics and i venture to guess that 99% of them do not inhabit this bastion of slab commerce

 

and when some one says "biggest" comic book, that intones possible high value concepts, correct me if i be wrong, and if wrong, why am i wrong to surmise such an interpretation?

 

Re Superman and Conjecture Land, that was all it was, an observation that the comics industry was BIG TIME in America long before Supes landed near Smallville and i have been a Superman fan since being a wee tyke - and still enjoy re-reading same

 

and would have continued to grow in a huge way with or without Supes popping up in Action 1

 

Biggest? I was just trying to use another adjective other than the thirty or so I have already used to describe how powerful and important Action #1 and Superman became, and the mammoth industry it spawned. The monetary value of Action #1 is of no moment in the argument of why it is the most important. Its intrinsic value and what it helped create is what makes it most important. No other comic book can lay claim to creating something of the magnitude Action #1 did. None. Disney books came after Disney had already created the major characters, the strip reprint books, were just that, reprints of newspaper strips. Romance books were unique in some ways, but romance novels had been around as had pulps for some time before they became comics. Same could be said for Science Fiction. But old Supey launched the superhero industry, and wove himself so deeply into the pop culture of this country that making a case for another SINGLE book, would be tough. I would love to hear you opinion on what other SINGLE book, not genre could possible have created more than Action #1 did.

 

This board may resided in "slab land", but not all of us are practicioners of slabbology. In fact, many of us enjoy liberating our treasures from slabs when we buy them. I come here because it is a nice relaxing place to engage in conversation with comic collectors. No such place exists in my neighborhood anymore since I left New Orleans. So it helps fill that void.

[EastEnd]

And what a huge part of our pop culture superman became. Simply emormous. It makes me wonder how comics would have developed even with WWII on the horizon.

 

Comics were hugely popular long before Superman came on the set. Sure, Superman is a huge cultural pop icon - that simply is not the issue.

 

Anyone who argues that Superman has not been super popular over the decades is s t u p i d.

 

I have never argued in that department.

 

- i wonder why some here think otherwise that Superman jump started an industry. No, he did not

 

The comics industry was firmly well established with over 100 million readers in America (as in most of the population) before Superman came on the set.

 

And most of those comics readers were not reading Superman

 

What we will never know is how the comicbook industry would have evolved without Superman

 

Would we have had Carl Barks doing Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge?

 

Or Gottfredson doing Mickey Mouse, then others keeping up the story lines

 

Would John Stanley & Irving Tripp transformed Little Lulu from Marge's Saturday Evening Post single panel cartoon which started in 1934?

 

Would Will Eisner brought us The Spirit?

 

Would Hal Foster not invented Prince Valiant?

 

Would Chic Young continued Blondie?

 

How about Bringing Up Father by McManus? Maybe he would have quit comics cuz there was no Superman

 

What about Milton Caniff going from Terry & the Pirates to Steve Canyon?

 

Or Al Capp bringing out Li'l Abner

 

Maybe Kurtzman would not have thought up MAD

 

One could go on & on - there are thousands of other comics pop culture inventions enjoyed by many millions: Skippy, Tarzan, Buck Rogers, The Phantom, Brick Bradford, Flash Gordon, Alley Oop, Tracy, Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Tom Mix, etc

 

and all these appeared in comicbooks - and so much more - and many of them were read by way more people than those who read Superman

 

But a world without Superman? I would not actually like to think of such a world

 

Most of these characters you mention originated in other media and eventually found their way to comic books as the licensing machines kicked in. At the end of the day, comic books, at least in this country, are most associated with superheroes and that relationship began with Superman. That I think makes Action #1 the most important comic.

[Monstro]

What we will never know is how the comicbook industry would have evolved without Superman

 

Would we have had Carl Barks doing Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge?

 

Or Gottfredson doing Mickey Mouse, then others keeping up the story lines

 

Would John Stanley & Irving Tripp transformed Little Lulu from Marge's Saturday Evening Post single panel cartoon which started in 1934?

 

Would Will Eisner brought us The Spirit?

 

Would Hal Foster not invented Prince Valiant?

 

Would Chic Young continued Blondie?

 

How about Bringing Up Father by McManus? Maybe he would have quit comics cuz there was no Superman

 

What about Milton Caniff going from Terry & the Pirates to Steve Canyon?

 

Or Al Capp bringing out Li'l Abner

 

Maybe Kurtzman would not have thought up MAD

 

One could go on & on - there are thousands of other comics pop culture inventions enjoyed by many millions: Skippy, Tarzan, Buck Rogers, The Phantom, Brick Bradford, Flash Gordon, Alley Oop, Tracy, Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Gene Autry, Tom Mix, etc

 

all these characters, creators and publications are all very important in the history of comics. there is no denying that. but not ONE of them stands alone the way superman

and action comics #1 have.

in fact all of those that you have mentioned combined pales in comparison to the number of readers superman has brought into this hobby over the years.