Today's Gold is Silver....

[adamstrange]

I have a slightly different take, but it had more to do with the fact that as the GA collectors get older, there are fewer new collectors to take their place and the value/demand will drop. Whereas the kids who collected SA still are strong and present in the marketplace and the new collectors who go for back issues clearly desire SA Marvels more than any other title.

 

Although there is indeed some truth to this analysis of yours, I also feel that the funnel theory or the graduation of SA and BA collectors to GA certainly helps to offset this to a large extent.

 

Actually, with the way that SA pricing is going from an affordability point of view, aging of the population, and the fact that collectors/investors should be looking to the future, wouldn't it really be that tomorrow's Gold is Bronze.

 

Weren't you going to scan a book or two for us?

[tth2]

Fair enough.

 

My rant is not rooted in snobbery, but love of the books and the hobby. I wish you would have been behind my booth in the 90's and witnessed the Silver Age grade orgasm that elevated from show to show. I don't lump all silver age collectors into the category of show offs, the reference made by A1Kid was about the top couple of collectors in the Silver Age market. It is of those that I was referring to. I rarely generalize to the extreme you read my post in. Unless I am being overly simplisitc to exaggerate a point.

 

I think evidence that SA collectors chase the grade moreso than GA is abundant. Not many "cracking the slab" threads in SA.

 

However, I think it's important to keep a little perspective. It sounds like the old joke about why dogs lick their privates, but one of the major reasons SA collectors focus on grade is because they can. (although I still maintain that finding NM SA DCs from 1956-1961 is as tough as, if not tougher, than finding many GA books in NM). If GA books were available in the same abundance as SAs, in my opinion so-called "purist" GA collectors would also have gravitated towards grade as a way of maintaining the thrill of the hunt.

 

Also, there are less "cracking the slab" threads in SA because quite frankly most of us have read these books, in their original form or reprints. This is very different from GA, particularly more esoteric books, which collectors may have never had an opportunity to read until they purchased their current copy. Given that I've read the SA stories before, buying a slabbed SA book, particularly a NM copy, represents an attempt to "freeze" the condition of a particularly beautiful copy, therefore giving me no reason to unslab it. Please don't confuse unwillingness to crack the slab with not being familiar with or having no interest in the story inside or in the comic itself. It's simply not true and a disservice to SA collectors everywhere. Are there SA speculators? Of course there are, just like there are GA speculators.

[tth2]

I RARELY hear GA collectors talk about the stories. At most they talk about the art, the covers, or the thrill of the chase. There doesn't seem to be the same visceral emotional attachment that I hear from SA and BA collectors.

 

And how much interaction do you have with GA collectors outside of the boards? You've probably had a reasonable amount of interaction with Duck collectors -- is their passion for stories any less with them? Doubt it -- but at least I would have some level of confidence in your generalization with regards to that specific sub-group.

Right after I made my post, I realized that my own GA niche, Duck books, was the major exception to my own statement! I also made a prediction that either you or Scrooge would be the first to call me on it!

 

Okay, okay, so Ducks and Barks ARE the exception to the rule. But perhaps it indicates how his writing stood out among other GA writing in that Ducks could be reprinted over and over and kids in the 60s, 70s and modern era have been just as thrilled by the adventures of Uncle Scrooge and his nephews as kids in the 40s and 50s?

 

You're right that I have had very little interaction with GA collectors outside of these boards. But that doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen all that many (if any) real discussions of GA storylines here, and quite frankly I doubt there are many discussions like that outside these boards either. Contrast that with the SA, BA and modern collectors who are constantly talking about their favorite storylines, here on the boards and outside of the boards.

 

Sorry Bill, but this GA snobbery drives me up a

 

This is the GA Forum, of course we're allowed to be GA snobs here! Where else do you expect us to do it.

I often feel like the kid from the wrong side of the tracks hanging out in the country club when I come over to this forum, so I feel compelled to defend the honor of my po' trash (i.e., SA collectors) brethren!

 

Seriously, this is the coolest forum on the boards with the most knowledgeable collectors, so I enjoy hanging out here and soaking up all the info, but I sometimes detect some unwarranted condescension towards SA collectors and occasionally feel compelled to stick up for them.

 

I don't think it's fair to dismiss SA collectors who focus on condition as a bunch of show-offs who just want to brag about the size of their Johnson.

 

There are a few of these out there and the intent of the registry is to encourage more of them. I've look at the registry only a couple times -- is there much going on with GA?

Just because they're competitive about grade doesn't mean they love their SA books any less. That was my main point to Bill. I love SA books and if they were only available in FN, then I'd be happy owning and reading FN copies. But they're not, so I have the luxury (nay, the need) of discriminating in which copies I choose to buy.

 

See all the oohs and ahs when a particularly sharp-looking GA gets posted here.

 

Ever go into the Show Me Your Beater Holy Grail thread? There's not much less oohing and ahhing on those books. With SA books it's relatively easy to find a 9.0 or better copy that reasonably represents what came off the newstand. Not so in GA, which is why I oohhd and aahhd over Fishler's Amazing Man simply because it's probably the only chance I'll get to see any copy remotely approaching it. There's actually a reasaonable amount of story discussion from AtlasT, Scrooge, Selegue, and other discussing Hank Fletcher, Frank Thomas, and who can forget Dickie and his magic whip? I'm sure you can cite counter examples but I would still suggest you've over-generalized.

There are plenty of collectors in the General and SA forum who've expressed antipathy to HG SA books and HG collectors too, and quite a few "beater" threads for SA and BA books.

[plady69]

I would ask any young Silver Age collector to pick up a Lou Fine Ray, a Jack Burnley Starman, a Reed Crandall Blackhawk, a Matt Baker anything (my favorite) and see if they don't catch the fever! Yes, the writing might not have been up to par with the Silver Age, but these dudes could draw. That's why I collect Golden Age.

[adamstrange]

But that doesn't change the fact that I haven't seen all that many (if any) real discussions of GA storylines here

 

I gave you some examples.

 

I just don't really think that you read the posts in the GA Forum that carefully. "if any" -- we had the recent thread about Dickie and his magic whip, much less Scrooge's A Month in Life (which needs an update!).. We've got a number of folks recently posting interior pages and comments going back and forth about them in the Centaur Thread and Show Us Your Atlas Thread. And we can't post an EC comic without several of our Ghoulantics discussing its artistic and literary merits.

 

GA stories are usually fairly short and many of them we've only read as adults. Perhaps we aren't looking at them through the eyes of a child whereby we can wax rhapsodic about the deep emotional impact but I can assure that I do spend discussing them when I get together with GA collectors. The board interaction is a bit different than real life which is why I specifically asked that question.

 

I rarely take you on because you're rarely you're rarely off base (except with those analogies ) but in this case the opportunity was just too juicy.

[Scrooge]

Scrooge's A Month in Life (which needs an update!)..

 

been stuck on what to say about Peter Porkchops for months considering I already covered his career in the anthology that Leading Screen Comics is ...

[adamstrange]

Scrooge's A Month in Life (which needs an update!)..

 

been stuck on what to say about Peter Porkchops for months considering I already covered his career in the anthology that Leading Screen Comics is ...

 

That's what been holding up the best thread in the forum?

 

Just post the darn thing, provide a ref to earlier the post and move on.

 

Or you could speculate on the amount of sausage we could make from him.

 

Pretty Please!

[Fazybones]

As a fairly new collector of four years and going after mostly Silver/ Bronze age books I had the good fortune to meet Billy Parker through some e-bay purchases and now seeing all these fantastic scans of GA books on these boards I'm slowing switching my thinking and have already purchased my first GA book.

 

And as far as the Silver collectors mostly wanting 9.4s I will take a beautiful 9.2 Silver anyday and I think it's still a good investment.

fay

[ciorac]

Fair enough.

 

My rant is not rooted in snobbery, but love of the books and the hobby. I wish you would have been behind my booth in the 90's and witnessed the Silver Age grade orgasm that elevated from show to show. I don't lump all silver age collectors into the category of show offs, the reference made by A1Kid was about the top couple of collectors in the Silver Age market. It is of those that I was referring to. I rarely generalize to the extreme you read my post in. Unless I am being overly simplisitc to exaggerate a point.

 

I think evidence that SA collectors chase the grade moreso than GA is abundant. Not many "cracking the slab" threads in SA.

 

However, I think it's important to keep a little perspective. It sounds like the old joke about why dogs lick their privates, but one of the major reasons SA collectors focus on grade is because they can. (although I still maintain that finding NM SA DCs from 1956-1961 is as tough as, if not tougher, than finding many GA books in NM). If GA books were available in the same abundance as SAs, in my opinion so-called "purist" GA collectors would also have gravitated towards grade as a way of maintaining the thrill of the hunt.

 

Also, there are less "cracking the slab" threads in SA because quite frankly most of us have read these books, in their original form or reprints. This is very different from GA, particularly more esoteric books, which collectors may have never had an opportunity to read until they purchased their current copy. Given that I've read the SA stories before, buying a slabbed SA book, particularly a NM copy, represents an attempt to "freeze" the condition of a particularly beautiful copy, therefore giving me no reason to unslab it. Please don't confuse unwillingness to crack the slab with not being familiar with or having no interest in the story inside or in the comic itself. It's simply not true and a disservice to SA collectors everywhere. Are there SA speculators? Of course there are, just like there are GA speculators.

 

 

Good stuff as always tth.

 

The range of silver age you mention above 1956-1961 is not the group I have been referring to. Again, not to belabor the point, I am referring to the Marvel superhero top grade only chasers.

 

And finally, I would put the SA to GA speculator ratio at somewhere in the neighborhood of 100-1, and that is a conservative ratio. The hobby needs them, I guess, to drive prices upwards and upwards...sigh...but I've always preferred the company of those, like you, who truly love the books, inside and out, and not simply view them as a commodity.

 

To them I say......buy stocks and bonds!

[Norrin_Radd]

I RARELY hear GA collectors talk about the stories. At most they talk about the art, the covers, or the thrill of the chase. There doesn't seem to be the same visceral emotional attachment that I hear from SA and BA collectors.

 

I talk about GA Batman stories.

 

In fact, there has been quite a number of collectors posting their interior pages lately so other GA collectors can see the stories.

 

I find GA Batman comics MUCH more interesting than any of the (frankly) watered down comic-code-adhering SA stories by Marvel with Stan Lee's overly-verbose, extraneous-exposition-laden writing with the art just shoe-horned in around it. They read like soap operas.

 

 

So I HATE the implication that GA collectors are real collectors and SA collectors (particularly the high grade mavens) are not.

 

 

And I HATE the implication that GA collecting is about just a few keys and covers. You've made a point of stating that GA collecting is exceptionally shallow and that only a few comics are being collected.

 

I'm glad this thriving GA board has been able to prove you wrong.

[tth2]

I find GA Batman comics MUCH more interesting than any of the (frankly) watered down comic-code-adhering SA stories by Marvel with Stan Lee's overly-verbose, extraneous-exposition-laden writing with the art just shoe-horned in around it. They read like soap operas.

Then perhaps it's time to change your name from Norrin Radd to Fang Gow or Roy the Superboy.

 

 

So I HATE the implication that GA collectors are real collectors and SA collectors (particularly the high grade mavens) are not.

 

 

And I HATE the implication that GA collecting is about just a few keys and covers. You've made a point of stating that GA collecting is exceptionally shallow and that only a few comics are being collected.

 

I'm glad this thriving GA board has been able to prove you wrong.

When did I say that? I'm a completist myself. Actually, Lou_Fine is the one who also says GA collectors should only collect keys and covers. (as I attempt to cleverly deflect all criticism towards another person)

[adamstrange]

I RARELY hear GA collectors talk about the stories. At most they talk about the art, the covers, or the thrill of the chase. There doesn't seem to be the same visceral emotional attachment that I hear from SA and BA collectors.

 

I talk about GA Batman stories.

 

In fact, there has been quite a number of collectors posting their interior pages lately so other GA collectors can see the stories.

 

I find GA Batman comics MUCH more interesting than any of the (frankly) watered down comic-code-adhering SA stories by Marvel with Stan Lee's overly-verbose, extraneous-exposition-laden writing with the art just shoe-horned in around it. They read like soap operas.

 

 

So I HATE the implication that GA collectors are real collectors and SA collectors (particularly the high grade mavens) are not.

 

 

And I HATE the implication that GA collecting is about just a few keys and covers. You've made a point of stating that GA collecting is exceptionally shallow and that only a few comics are being collected.

 

I'm glad this thriving GA board has been able to prove you wrong.

 

Soap Operas with brief interruptions of contrived fights between the superheros of the Marvel Universe.

 

Despite that I still love them.

[rjpb]

And I HATE the implication that GA collecting is about just a few keys and covers.

 

Yeah! It's also about cool splash pages!

[rjpb]

Silver Age has two advantages over Golden Age when it comes to attracting the attention of the casual or novice collector looking to expand their interests.

First, modern comics continue to connect to events that happened during the SA in their continuities, especially Marvel. Two, reader copies of SA books are largely affordable, often available for little more than a new comic. As these collectors become more immersed in the hobby they become the collectors willing to pay big money for high grade SA. Golden Age offers little in the way of inexpensive introductory books, especially when it comes to the more recognizable superheroes. I would guess that before a collector is willing to pay $100 for a GA book, he or she has likely paid that much for something from the SA or later. Still this happens with enough frequency that the ranks of GA collectors hardly seems to diminish with time.

 

To think that interest in GA books will wain while interest in SA books sustains or increases is myopic. If anything the interest in obscure and esoteric GA has increased with time, as the hobby matures.

 

If the day comes when the GA market collapses due to lack of interest, it won't be because everyone is spending their money on high grade silver and bronze. It will be because hardly anyone is collecting comics period.

[tth2]

Well said!

[phoenix215]

As a johnny come lately, i have found this thread to be quite interesting. First off i will say that i am a unabashed collector of the marvel superhero genre..x-men basically. It was the comic that got me interested in comics and collecting of them evolved from my enjoyment of the stories within. Yes some of them can be a bit hokey and as one poster stated "watered down etc etc", but i have also have found that to be true in the GA genres as well. And in saying that though, i will gladly read SA and GA side by side because effectively i don't see a defining line between the two as they are both forms of conveying a story primarily through pictures with the written word to go along with those pictures...which i have enjoyed reading.

Now i am no great collector (my meager collection of 21) of the GA era as a lot of the posters are here, mainly limiting myself to the LB Cole covers that i've been impressed by over the years and considering how i view x-men it would be a surprise to know that instead of picking up a key x-men issue like GS X-Men, i bought 2 Cole covers...Blue Bolt #102 and Great Comics, maybe i am an exception to the rule.

The one thing that i have felt that when i have read discussions about GA vs SA that there is a GA "looking down" on SA collectors, while there is a SA "those old fuddy duddys" on GA collectors. Now i am not saying it is intentional, but it is like any other topic one can care to name when people feel passionate about what they collect and what is the "better".

Now i can look at ciorac's comment about speculators in SA vs GA and i would totally agree with that, but it would be interesting to see those who are collectors who didn't have an idea of what their collection is valued.

Would i love to have a complete high grade collection of x-men? Yes, that is my dream, but i am also collecting reading copies of the same run, so that i can enjoy that which i have enjoyed reading all these years. But i am also willing to complete my run at the VF and upwards level. Plus, to give in to my small GA craving, i'd like to collect in Fine or better...mainly because the better the grade, the more impressive the book looks...but then again who wouldn't say that.

Now ciorac says he "cracks open slabs" that amazes me in a way(sorry to use you as an example), but i totally respect the reason why it is done...to read and enjoy the stories within rather than just admiring the covers behind the plastic.

I guess what i am saying is that when you read some of the posts they do come across as decidedly belittling, on both sides of the era line.

 

Just my .038 aussie cents worth.

[showcase4]

I'm sure most of you would agree Silver is the most popular class in comics at this point in time. Some key reasons release of marvel movies this summer as well as the substantial price difference in the top 10 gold versus silver books. Whiz Comics #2 comes in at $88,000.00 verus Amazing Fantasy #15 at $43,000.00..this is a perfect example of how undervalued a silver age comic is compared to gold. Also there should be a substantial amount of gold collections coming to the table as more older collectors past on. I don't think CGC helps matters much either when they preach anything below a 9.4 isn't investment grade. This type of mentality has collectors paying way too much for a 9.6 versus 9.4...last maybe the new Wonder Woman movie will revive the Golden age..don't count on it slowing Spider-man down.

 

Interesting how you try to prove your point by comparing Spider-Man (AF) to Captain Marvel (Whiz).........I would like to see how this thread turned out if you compared your AF15 to Tec27 for an apples to apples match up. When you compare the raw NM SPidey @ $43,000 to a raw NM Tec 27 @ $450,000, you realize that it's not that AF15 is undervalued, but Tec 27 is from a different, superior universe.

 

Sure Silver is hot..the books are everywhere...easy to find, come in all sizes, shapes, and grades. I am a GA collector now, but started as a SA collector, and I can tell you the main difference: with SA you collect the grade, and with GA you collect the comic book. Put another way, SA is high school, and GA is graduate school.

 

The Golden Age does not need to be "revived"...one look at prices of the big books over the past 2 years would prove that GA is as robust and healthy as ever. Once again, you chose to pair up apples and bananas.....Spider-Man to Wonder Woman. Why not compare Spidey to Superman and state your "revival" case? Looks to me like you're a SA collector who came into our world over here in the GA forum, feeling sorry for us and our dying marketplace, while you trumpet the greatness of your SA Spidey domination....that's fine, and that's your right to do so.

 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to continue my search for mid-grade unrestored pre-Robin Tecs....while you go look thru a dealers bin of 457 copies of X-Men number 142, hoping to find a NM+ 9.6 that you can have slabbed, and double your money from $225 raw to $450 certified.

[tth2]

Put another way, SA is high school, and GA is graduate school.

Once again, I must state that I find this viewpoint to be pure and unadulterated B.S. Some SA collectors choose to go on to collect GA, others don't. It is ridiculous to imply that those who don't are somehow stunted in their development and not as far along in the evolutionary scale.

[showcase4]

Put another way, SA is high school, and GA is graduate school.

Once again, I must state that I find this viewpoint to be pure and unadulterated B.S. Some SA collectors choose to go on to collect GA, others don't. It is ridiculous to imply that those who don't are somehow stunted in their development and not as far along in the evolutionary scale.

 

TTH2,

my entire response was really directed at LAstyle7, who started this thread......you are one of my favorite posters , and I appreciate your passion. The newbie ( LAstyle7 ) comes into our neighborhood, bragging how his bike is shinier and better than ours, so he has something like this comin'.

You don't see us going over to the Silver forum, starting threads about how great GA comics are, and stating that Silver is the new dog *spoon*.

 

With that said, I do believe the appreciation of and collection of GA comics is for advanced collectors, and something you work up to as the pinnacle of collecting. The SA arguement of superiority is ALWAYS based on Spider-Man's popularity and Spider-Man alone....remove him for the equation and what are you left with......Ant Man, Iron Man and Supergirl?

 

Remove Batman from our world, and you are left with some of the greatest characters and greatest stories ever written.....Superman, The Green Lantern, The Sandman, The Human Torch, Captain America, The Sub-Mariner, and the list goes on and on and on. Silver exists because of Gold...I think your pal LAstyle7 should take a step back and realize this.

 

If we move away from keys and talk about non-keys, then GA absolutely inihilates the SA books.....it's not even close. I'll give you a few examples....recent acquisitions, and I challenge LAstyle7 or ANY SA collector to put 3 non-keys up against my 3 non-keys, and we'll take a vote to see which is superior by a landslide......you can even copy and paste this post in the SA section and let those guys vote as well. I'll show you mine...now you show me yours

(Sorry GA guys if you have seen these previously posted pics...need to make a point here to the Newbie)

 

 

 

[whetteon]

Why are we talking about silver age on the GA forums?

I imagine it's something to do with selling all of one's silver to buy more gold.

 

Or is that just me...?

 

I see Golden Age collectors as the ones who evolved. Honestly, how many GA collectors eventually take up collecting Silver? Usually it's the other way around. Folks started with what they might have been familiar with from their own childhood, then moved on to the wonders that preceeded them. There will always be more Silver collectors--think of it as a funnel.

 

Just my opinion, fwiw.

 

I think this is a very good observation. When you realize that SA Marvels, even in high grade, are fairly readily available, people who would like to make the hunt part of the equation start looking for GA or other hard to find books.

 

I do too. We have seen evidence of it here on the Boards. Several silver and bronze age addicts have crossed over to gold, for the "thrill of the hunt" if you will.

 

 

The reason I crossed over is that while BA is fantastic, nothing beats holding a good GA super-hero war cover in your hands.

 

What draws me to the GA is the mystic surrounding these books. I never imaged that I, of all people, could ever really afford any of these books. And if you ask me, an old 1930-40 book from the WW2 era just has so much more historical value to it then some common 1960, mass produced comic book for the college kid. Especially since I've never read many of the GA super-hero stories (although I've tackled most of the SA characters origins). It's almost like a whole new solar system contained withing a familiar universe but one that's unexplored and uncharted.

 

nuff said.