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1 year approval period?????

Started by MrNice-migration,

150 posts in this topic

MrNice-migration

MrNice-migration

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Boy, you're really teaching ME a lesson, Old Guy, by reciting insults of famous comedians from the past and present.

 

How long does it take you to copy word for word from Internet text?

 

Let's see, there's some Dice Clay, George Burns, Henny Youngman (you light up a room when you leave it), even some Morey Amsterdam insults to Mel Cooley from the Old Van Dyke TV show (you have that certain nothing), Dennis Leary (Amputee field hockey), and Chris Tucker too!!!!!

 

You're make some executive a helluva' secretary someday with your uncanny copying and plagiarizing ability!!!

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MrNice-migration

MrNice-migration

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Why would you want to debate with me why one book with color touch gets a BLUE label, and another with even LESS color touch, gets a purple? Wouldn't you have to debate that with CGC?

 

I have my opinion and you have yours. It's a message Board, right. A vast chasm of opinions. Your opinion is that every 9.2 is created equal, every 9.4 is equal, etc. etc. and that CGC should be exempt from guaranteeing their service. My opinion is diametrically opposed.

 

When I see an 8.0 that looks the same as a 9.4, and the 8.0 was submitted by a casual submittor, and the 9.4 was submitted by an official CGC dealer, I'm going to feel that someone got the clean end and the other guy got the 893censored-thumb.gif end of the stick. Especially when I see a repetitive pattern.

 

When I see some poor shnook who got ramrodded with an 8.0 on a 9.2 book, and then the same book is reslabbed, 9.2 a few months later, I'm going to be of the opinion that CGC cost this poor devil a substantial amount of money by not grading it 9.2 in the first place and should be libel for damages based on some kind of GUARANTEE.

 

When I see a book that was damaged in slabbing and the submittor was not compensated for it, I'm going to think that he should have been paid the difference between what it was and what it had become due to mishandled slabbing.

 

Now, do you want actual incidents...should I start off with 8.0 that became a 9.2, the Marvel 33 that Heritage auctioned as a CGC 8.0 that somehow returned a 9.2 a short time thereafter? Should I continue by noting the Marvel 2 that was auctioned by Heritage as a VF- that came back in a 9.0 housing? Should I keep going?

 

Somebody realized probably $700 for a VF that should have gotten the $3000+ the book acheived on its second coming as a 9.0. That's a $2300 loss due to faulty grading the first time, as I see it. Remember those two books discussed many times over on the Forum? There's plenty more like that as well.

 

A Det 27 with color touch in a Blue holder??? But the Mile high Cap 1 is in a purple holder for the same thing? A filthy Action 1 with 1/7th of the front cover missing is a 2.5 and a Marvel 1 with a VF appearing front cover but a split spine is a 2.0??? C'mon!! What the hell kind of grading is this? Make it up as the situations arise?

Grade them all on the same playing field regardless of the book or their submittors or don't grade them at all. And then STAND BEHIND THE FINAL TALLYING, with a guarantee, like any other service provider. It's so easy to sit in judgement if you're never held responsible for your opinions, isn't it? Only in the Comic-Hobby.

 

 

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BachelorOfComix

BachelorOfComix

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For those who haven't read it, here's a link to PGC Mint's article from 03Aug06. Mark Wilson's rebuttal to this forum's paranoia of Cgc giving preferential treatment to some hi-end registered submitters. Calm down everybody.

http://www.pgcmint.com/FrameArticles.html

It's too long. Can you give me the gist of it? confused.gif

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
For those who haven't read it, here's a link to PGC Mint's article from 03Aug06. Mark Wilson's rebuttal to this forum's paranoia of Cgc giving preferential treatment to some hi-end registered submitters. Calm down everybody.

http://www.pgcmint.com/FrameArticles.html

It's too long. Can you give me the gist of it? confused.gif

 

It says you're a troll...

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aardvark88

aardvark88

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House,

If u read the bottom 1/2 of Mark Wilson's article the gist is there is NO patronage grading perks given to Heritage or JP the Mint. Forumites are just paranoid thinking we, the unwashed non-corporate submitters, are getting harsher grading from Cgc. mad.gif

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
House,

If u read the bottom 1/2 of Mark Wilson's article the gist is there is NO patronage grading perks given to Heritage or JP the Mint. Forumites are just paranoid thinking we, the unwashed non-corporate submitters, are getting harsher grading from Cgc. mad.gif

 

lol... I actually did read the article... twice... before replying to BOC...

 

but he did ask to have it summed up... smile.gif

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BronzeBruce13

BronzeBruce13

Posted
Posted
I have my opinion and you have yours. It's a message Board, right. A vast chasm of opinions. Your opinion is that every 9.2 is created equal, every 9.4 is equal, etc. etc. and that CGC should be exempt from guaranteeing their service. My opinion is diametrically opposed.

 

Opinion is one thing when presented as such. Usually they are offered with terminology that clearly conveys an opinion is being offered.

"In my opinion"...

"I feel its likely that"...

"This is not fact, but I think"...

etc.

 

A declaration or accusation is a little different, they don't have any of the above, or similar "verbal qualifiers" that change the meaning of the statement considerably. I feel your statements sound like accusations (which you seem to detest without proof) and they are pretty strong ones not to offer facts to back them up... so that's why I asked.

 

Also... please don't put words in my mouth or "invent my opinion" as you just did on 2 issues. I never indicated any such thing. If you've read any of my posts you should know that I don't feel that way at all. I'm clearly not in the "every given grade is alike" camp. I'm known to buy multiple copies of keys and not because in each case I disagree with the grade. Often, I just want to keep trying to find one that "appeals" to my tastes and preferences and hopefully in the process find one that leans upwards, not downwards on the grading scale IMHO.

 

As far as the guarantee.. I never said bumpkis about that issue. I never really gave it much thought so I have no idea where you pulled that from? If you want a quick opinion, I think its rather impossible since even with a published grading standard most would agree there is still an "artistic nature" to grading. Someday maybe someone like James Rudd will develop a more detailed scientific method that will rely more on science than art... we shall see. That said, CGC's service is more of an "expert opinion", than lets say... how long my muffler will last from a Midas type guaranteed service.

 

Also, I don't know the answer to this, but has there been a similar precedent established in any of the other graded markets that preceded comic grading? If any of those offer a guarantee, I'd say your suggestion is worth exploring. If not, then I'd point out its probably been fully considered and no one on either side of the table thought it made sense or was doable.

 

 

Now, do you want actual incidents...should I start off with 8.0 that became a 9.2, the Marvel 33 that Heritage auctioned as a CGC 8.0 that somehow returned a 9.2 a short time thereafter? Should I continue by noting the Marvel 2 that was auctioned by Heritage as a VF- that came back in a 9.0 housing? Should I keep going?

 

That's an incident that you and many others, including myself were concerned over. However, Its not proof of anything unless you know something I don't. I also think if situations were reversed, you'd toss that theory away rather quickly as solid evidence. I believe explanations were offered in that thread that were at least reasonable to consider and investigate further before arriving at the conclusion you seem to have.

 

For what its worth, and it may not be much to you, I did look into that myself because it alarmed me. What I discovered and my opinions on the matter were already posted in that thread as I assume you saw. I'm not stating this as fact as I never experienced this first hand, but in a nutshell there are those that can apparently perform some "CGC legal" (or non detectable) defect reversals that may improve the grade considerably depending on the circumstance. I don't have to tell you... as you know a hundred times more about this subject than I (and that was not an accusation, but an observation from the contents of your posts). Pressing (flattening slightly rolled books), "wonder-breading" soiling off, carefully pushing out minor bends... and other techniques I don't know about can be accomplished by the right hands. Whether or not one agrees with the practice or not is another matter. Heritage obviously has, or can employ those capable of assisting in that regard. The question if that is an "unfair advantage" or if "they have a responsibility to inform their consignors of books that they identify as having a considerable upside" is also another argument. That's all I can offer on the subject and it was enough to satisfy me... otherwise I would have quietly unloaded my collection in disgust. You are entitled to your own opinion, but I would suggest following your own preferences as I understand them and make an opinion clearly sound like one.. and if you are making an accusation bring proof to the table. That's what I believe you would demand.

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Foolkiller

Foolkiller

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In the short time I've been on this forum regularly, there have been a few major threads concerning who hammer/mr. nice/comic keys etc. is... it's basically the same conversation repeatedly. To me, there's no point in really getting into it because it's so obvious that mr. nice is comic keys or is somehow closely tied to him. Either way, there's no doubt from reading his posts that a) he hates CGC and b) vigilantly defends somebody with one of the worst reputations I've ever seen on the boards.

 

I don't know everyone on these boards, nor have I met everyone here... but you get a pretty good idea as to who has a good reputation and who doesn't. Forget Steve Borock and CGC for a second... Steve had a great reputation as a stand up guy way before CGC, and to me, an indictment from him is saying that someone reputable has had many dealings with someone that is disreputable. Then there's Bruce's last post. Bruce is one of the least judgmental people on the boards. He's honest and fair and enjoys that reputation among many, many board members and dealers and collectors in general. I've met Bruce in person and read many of his posts... and I trust that when he thinks someone is comic keys etc., or is involved in fraudulent selling... it's an opinion to listen to. When Bob Storms tells you, steer clear of comic keys because he's selling fraud books, it's important opinion because he's built a reputation for honesty in selling himself and doesn't lie to people. It's overwhelming the other reputable sellers/buyers on this board who agree: comic keys isn't always (rarely) honest about his product. I say all this because of one thing: reputation in certain circles is EVERYTHING. If you are an attorney, your reputation is everything (and I say this from experience). If you are in sales or in teaching or any other profession, reputation is key. It's what sets you apart and allows others to get an idea of who you are.

 

Now, I'm sure Mr. Nice could say, well, here goes the board setting itself up as comic gods again... and I don't look at it that way at all. I'm very average in my buying and don't sell books at all. I'm not a big player in the comic book world... but I've been around long enough to know how fraud can burn a new beginner like I was 10 or so years ago when i bought a restored book from a dealer who didn't disclose it. Or a dealer who took advantage of me when I was 16 and knew nothing about grading, basically telling me things that were completely off base. Those things ruin it for people who want to enjoy comic collecting... because they get taken by people who are just trying to make a fast buck.

 

Not every reputation is earned, for better or for worse, but there is a collection of well respected people here in this relatively small hobby who think that Mr. Nice/Comic keys etc., is a fraud seller. It's important because everyone who reads these boards should be made aware of this. You don't have to believe everyone or anyone here... you can choose to believe Mr. Nice knows nothing about comic keys, and that comic keys sells only the highest quality books. For my money, I'll trust the reputations and the quality of the people that I know.

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DiceX

DiceX

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Posted
Also, I don't know the answer to this, but has there been a similar precedent established in any of the other graded markets that preceded comic grading? If any of those offer a guarantee, I'd say your suggestion is worth exploring. If not, then I'd point out its probably been fully considered and no one on either side of the table thought it made sense or was doable.

 

Grading Standards

 

Please note that they are mentioned as "Only a guideline" and that there is also an "eye appeal" factor.

So, it's basically guidlines that don't have to be followed.

 

And no, I don't think there is any kind of guarantee of a given grade.

If I remember correctly, the labels have disclaimers to the tune of "subjective" and "not guaranteed" on them.

The other card grading sites are similar.

*Disclaimer - This is AN OPIONION as I can best remember.*

 

Believe me, we have far less problems in the comic grading world than there is in the sportscard grading world.

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Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
Posted
For those who haven't read it, here's a link to PGC Mint's article from 03Aug06. Mark Wilson's rebuttal to this forum's paranoia of Cgc giving preferential treatment to some hi-end registered submitters. Calm down everybody.

http://www.pgcmint.com/FrameArticles.html

 

Nice article but he was talking about "Herritage" tongue.gif

 

another faux pax was comparing a mid run DC book (Flash 63-85? WTF? Who reads this and still wants NM copies of this anyway?) vs Iron Man # 1 ( a number one issue and Marvel zombies with cash asre still paying out the arse for it)

 

other than that, great article, well thought out, makes one ponder.

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