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Wayne-Tec
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Posts posted by Wayne-Tec
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Outside of tiers, I've ranked the Top-6 books individually. In my opinion, not only are these the Top-6 GA books today, but they may remain the Top-6 for a very, very long time.
Action Comics #7 and Detective Comics #31 have rarity and incredibly desirable early cover appearances to their credit. Whiz Comics #2, All-American Comics #16 and Flash Comics #1 mark first appearances of early GA superheroes. The GA has some truly great books to offer, but the Top-6 are in a league of their own.
The combination of the Top-6 feature all of the following: the birth of the DC and Marvel superhero universes, the 1st appearances of Superman, Batman, Captain America, The Joker, The Red Skull, Catwoman, Jim Gordon, Bucky Barnes (the eventual Winter Soldier), The Kents (Clark's parents), The Sub-Mariner and The Human Torch, all with classic covers of the highest order.
There are the Top-6, and then, there's everything else.
1. Action Comics #1
2. Detective Comics #27
3. Captain America Comics #1
4. Batman #1
5. Marvel Comics #1
6. Superman #1
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Very interesting Detective Comics #27 CGC NG (missing cover, first 3 wraps and centerfold, but replaced with color copies).
No original Batman pages but the majority of an original Tec #27 is there.
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I saw this on a baseball forum, where a collector used some kind of white bead moisture absorbers (lose beads, not specifically silica gel packs) and it caused damage to his collectibles in a safe deposit box.
1. Has anyone ever experienced any kind of damage to their comics stored in a safe deposit box as a result of silica gel packs?
2. What happens if you don't replace old silica gel packs in a safe deposit box?
3. Do the packs fill up with moisture or do they just dry out and become useless?
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14 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:
Sorry but disagree. Supes started it all. AC1 will always be king and Supes 1 will always outpace Bats 1.
Cap will watch the battle from a distance.
Doesn't Cap #1 now out-sell Batman #1, grade for grade?
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Has anyone ever had issues with silica gel packs backfiring within safe deposit boxes? I have not, but I've read about it on other forums. From what I understand, they can sometimes absorb moisture, then dispense it in a way that creates water/humidity damage. Has anyone had this experience?
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16 minutes ago, sfcityduck said:
A lot of well argued opinions being tossed out on this thread. Thanks for starting the discussion Wayne-Tec.
And thanks to you, and others, for sharing their thoughts. I've said this before, but it's as true today as it's ever been. Discussions like these, regardless of whether we agree or disagree, are a testament to our passion as collectors, which is a testament to how special these books are.
Any chance Siegel, Shuster, Simon and Kirby thought 75+ years ago that readers would be arguing about which of their comic books are the more historic comic books through their television-electronic-keyboard-communication-devices?
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2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:
CA 1 is a great book. But, it is not the "1st app. of a superhero debuting in his own self-titled series." It is not even the first appearance of a Timely hero debuting in his own self-titled series. I believe that honor goes to Red Raven (Aug. 1940).
I also think it is mistake to view CA 1 as containing a "real life connection to world history," but not Superman 1. Superman started out as a New Deal liberal crusader for social justice. In Superman 1, he stops a lynching, stops an unjust government death penalty execution, tackles a corrupt Senator, travels to South America to stop a war fomented by munitions manufacturers, and tackles unsafe conditions for mine workers! That is far far far more "real world" in the context of its times, and much more adult, than Captain America engaging in the fantasy of punching Hitler or battling the Red Skull.
My previous post stated that: "Cap #1 is the only GA book to feature all of the following in one issue: 1st app. of a superhero debuting in his own self-titled series, origin of the superhero, 1st app. of that superhero's arch nemesis, 1st app. of the superhero's sidekick (who would go on to become a major villain, having a feature film named after him), classic cover and real life connection to world history."
No other GA book, to my knowledge, contains all of the above mentioned feats. In respects to Superman #1's historical-significance, you stated: "he stops a lynching, stops an unjust government death penalty execution, tackles a corrupt Senator, travels to South America to stop a war fomented by munitions manufacturers, and tackles unsafe conditions for mine workers!"...that's all Action Comics #1-3 content, not anything original to Superman #1.
I've touched on the real-world historical significance of Cap #1 earlier in this thread. Phrasing it as "engaging in the fantasy of punching Hitler.." comes across as if you're trying to belittle the content. My apologies if that's not the case. Yes it's fiction, but I believe Simon and Kirby had just as much heart behind their creation as Siegel and Shuster had behind theirs. One crusaded for social justice, the other against real life evil.
If you value "comic book history" over all, from a marketing perspective, Superman #1 tops Cap #1 and Batman #1 and it's not even close. From a marketing perspective, Superman #1 also tops Action #1 and Tec #27. It was the dawn of Superman's money making machine, and that is significant, especially for the history of comic books. I suppose it's apples and oranges to compare the importance of that to the importance of 1st appearances, classic covers and such.
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On 7/6/2017 at 0:12 PM, sfcityduck said:
It's all a matter of opinion, but personally I think the very first comic devoted 100% to a superhero is of similar or greater historical import to the first comic published by Goodwin, the first appearance of Joker, and CA 1 (which isn't even the first patriotic hero). People like to downgrade Superman 1 as a reprint, but it includes some new material and the cover is a classic (and the back cover isn't bad either). So, for me personally, the gap from Action 1 and D 27 to Superman 1 is far smaller than the gap from Superman 1 to CA 1.
As I've said before, Superman #1 is far more than a collection of reprints. It completes Superman's first adventure from Action #1 with new pages of art/story, it expands Superman's origins, it features the 1st app. of the Kents and it has a page devoted to the scientific explanation of Superman's powers. There's as much new Superman material in Superman #1 as there is new Wonder Woman material in All-Star Comics #8. Being the first comic book devoted to a solo superhero character marked a pivotal point in the evolution of the industry. All of these factor in to making Superman #1 one of the most important comics ever published.
With that said, both Batman #1 and Captain America Comics #1 are packed to the brim with historically significant, interesting, desirable content that trumps the interior of Superman #1 in my opinion. Batman #1 features the 1st app. of both the Joker and Catwoman, the 2nd app. of the Joker, 2nd app. of Hugo Strange in the final "pre-Robin" story in history, the 3rd app. of Robin, a classic cover, reprinted Tec #33 origin story, reprinted Tec #34 Batman splash image and a classic cover (both front and back). The Joker remains, arguably, the most legendary villain in the history of comic books and he's right up there amongst the greatest villains in the history of popular fiction. The inclusion of his 1st app. on Batman #1, to this day, is significantly overlooked. Batman #1 is too often treated, in some respects, like a Green Lantern #1. A book targeted for the "No. 1 factor" without much consideration for what lies beneath the cover. The Joker's first appearance is common knowledge, but the depth of its content is often overlooked.
Cap #1 is the only GA book to feature all of the following in one issue: 1st app. of a superhero debuting in his own self-titled series, origin of the superhero, 1st app. of that superhero's arch nemesis, 1st app. of the superhero's sidekick (who would go on to become a major villain, having a feature film named after him), classic cover and real life connection to world history. For as much as I've argued that Superman #1's interior is under-appreciated, because it is, there's just too much within the pages of Cap #1 and Batman #1 to go toe-to-toe with. Due to factors of rarity, it being a 1939 book and the historical significance that it possesses, I've put Superman #1 in the same tier as Batman #1 and Cap #1, that by other measures, warrant their placement amongst Tier-2 books.
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3 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:
When's the new overstreet come out. San Diego weekend ?
Should hit local comic shops July 19th.
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On July 19th, 2014: I posted this in the Captain America Comics #1 Club thread. It sums up well my feelings pertaining to the historical significance of Cap #1.
"IMO, Cap #1 has only begun to scrape the surface of its potential.
It's long been recognized for its "classic cover", and as a very desirable book, but it's really so much more. Unlike any other GA book that I can think of, Cap #1 has a real word connection that makes it undeniably unique. Not only was it Simon and Kirby's first breakthrough creation (akin to FF #1 being Stan Lee's first breakthrough creation), but it was a real world response to the evils of Nazism. Simon and Kirby were both Jewish and Cap #1 was a political, personal statement to show their desire for the U.S. to enter WWII.
Lex Luthor, the Joker, Two-Face -- they're all great villains of fiction. But the real world of the early 1940's was facing a real life threat, a real life evil unlike anything ever seen in modern history. Captain America's origin was tied in, storyline-wise, as a direct response to that real world threat. He was America's answer -- physically, emotionally and symbolically. That real world relevance puts the character on a different level than his contemporaries of the time. Because of this, Captain America can be appreciated by both comic book fans and students of history alike. The voice and vision of the American man was captured in Cap #1.
Beyond that, Cap #1 has ascended to claim the spot as the hobby's most valuable "Marvel" comic book. And as I've stated before, that's very significant to the many collectors who was "Marvel zombies" and don't really care for DC. To them, Action #1 and Tec #27 don't hold the same appeal -- they want the very best of what their universe has to offer. The fact that Marvel has gone on to become the industry's No. 1 company is highly significant. Because we're not talking about Cap #1 as the top book of a cult company -- we're talking about the top book, born from THE top company.
We've seen the T206 Honus Wagner card (a player with little modern day relevance, comparatively speaking) break the $2,000,000 mark. We've seen stamps sell for millions of dollars. When you consider the very direct, very relevant connections Captain America has to modern day forms of entertainment, and the vast room comic books still have to grow in a world record sense -- I don't think it's a stretch at all to think that a CGC 9.8 Cap #1 could be a $2,000,000 book.
Before the $1,000,000 sale of the CGC 8.0 Action #1, the perception of how valuable a comic book could be was vastly different. In a short period of time, that changed tremendously. Due to factors of both nostalgia and modern-relevance, comic books are very unique. And there's a plethora of reasons to think that there's still a lot of room for significant growth."
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46 minutes ago, porcupine48 said:
I'd take Marvel or Cap 1 over the others anyday.
And you're not alone.
I would take an Action #1 over anything. But every time I watch a new MCU film (Spider-Man: Homecoming anyone?), I'm not thinking about Action #1. I trace my thoughts back to the early days of the Marvel Universe. From a GA perspective, that's Marvel #1 and Cap #1.
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22 hours ago, ComicConnoisseur said:
Tier-1:
Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #27, Captain America Comics #1(Fourth of July when I write this Happy Birthday America!)
Tier-2:
Superman #1, Marvel Comics #1, Batman #1,
Tier-3:
Action Comics #7, Detective Comics #31, All-Star Comics #8, Whiz Comics #2 (#1), All-Star Comics #3, More Fun Comics #73,
Tier-4:
Sensation Comics #1, More Fun Comics #52, Action Comics #10, Detective Comics #29,
Tier-5:
Wonder Woman #1
Detective Comics #1, Action Comics #2, Action Comics #13, Detective Comics #33,
Tier-6:
Detective Comics #28, Adventure Comics #40, Detective Comics #35, Detective Comics #38
Due to scarcity and the popularity of Cap vs. Superman and Batman, it's tough for me to see Cap #1 moving into Tier-1. But as I stated previously, one has to consider the mentality of the "Marvel Zombie" GA collector. Some just don't care for D.C. And vice versa. Cap #1/Marvel #1 then becomes the "Action #1" of the Timely collector. In that respect, there sits massive potential.
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On 7/4/2017 at 1:28 AM, gino2paulus2 said:
Cool idea!! I see Cap 3 creeping up into tier 6 land sooner than later. It's definitely about on par with Adventure 40 as far as price is concerned lately. It also has everything going for it as far Cover, 1st Stan etc. i could go on and on but us GAers know the book is hot and for good reason
It's rising up the ranks for sure. After Cap #1 and Marvel #1, there is a significant drop off as far as Timely's are concerned. Something to consider is the mentality of the GA collector who loves Marvel but is uninterested in DC. We saw tremendous growth in Pre-Robin Tecs after Tec #27 and Batman #1 pulled out of range. Cap #1 and Marvel #1 have now pulled out of range for most collectors. For Marvel Zombie's, what's next? Cap #2-3 and Marvel Mystery #2, #4 and #9 come to mind.
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2 hours ago, sfcityduck said:
My only thought is that Superman 1 is a Tier 1 book. It is very rare (may be only one copy above 8.0 - and that is without factoring in the multiple printings issue), super-important historically (first solo superhero book), and the top copy would likely sell for well north of any book other than copies of D27 or Action 1 (a 5.5 sold for $500k).
It's a good argument. I'd say Superman #1 floats between the books I listed in Tier-1 and Tier-2, but is still closer to Tier-2. FMV might put it closer to Tier-1, but the historical significance of Marvel #1, Batman #1 and Cap #1 cannot be denied. Content-wise, Superman #1 would rank towards the bottom of Tier-2, so it's FMV isn't enough for me to put it in Tier-1.
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8 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:
Love me some Wayne-Tec threads! Here's my take :
Tier-1:
Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #27
Tier-2:
Superman #1, Captain America Comics #1, Batman #1
Tier-3:
Action Comics #7, Detective Comics #31, Marvel Comics #1 , All-American Comics #16, Flash Comics #1
Tier-4:
Action Comics #10, Detective Comics #29, All-Star Comics #8, Whiz Comics #2
Tier-5:
More Fun Comics #73, Detective Comics #38, Detective Comics #1, Action Comics #2, Action Comics #13, Detective Comics #33, More Fun Comics #52, Sensation Comics #1
Tier-6:
Detective Comics #28, Adventure Comics #40, Detective Comics #35, All-Star Comics #3, Wonder Woman #1
Solid list Corey.
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43 minutes ago, thedude said:
Bat 1
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38 minutes ago, thedude said:
hey, nice list. I got me a tier 2 book.
Which one?
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- Popular Post
Over the years, many of us here in the GA section have put together "hierarchy" lists. I'd like to consider my list ever-evolving: the result of passion, research, knowledge of the past, feelings at the moment and projection for the future. For the sake of discussion, I'd like to see where my fellow collectors are at half-way through the year of 2017. There are no right or wrong answers. Collector's criteria can and will be different. I've taken into account historical significance, nostalgia, desirability, FMV, connections to both the past and present, interior content and exterior display (covers). My list is limited to "superhero" DC/Timely/Fawcett books, but feel free to expand your lists to include whatever you're interested in. I've separated the books in my rankings by tier, then listed them from earliest-latest newsstand appearance. While I could rank the books within each tier, I feel them close enough to be grouped together, with each book having the potential to move upward or downward. Without any further
, here we go.
Tier-1:
Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #27
Tier-2:
Superman #1, Marvel Comics #1, Batman #1, Captain America Comics #1
Tier-3:
Action Comics #7, Detective Comics #31, Whiz Comics #2 (#1)
Tier-4:
Action Comics #10, Detective Comics #29, Flash Comics #1, All-American Comics #16, All-Star Comics #8
Tier-5:
Detective Comics #1, Action Comics #2, Action Comics #13, Detective Comics #33, More Fun Comics #52, Sensation Comics #1
Tier-6:
Detective Comics #28, Adventure Comics #40, Detective Comics #35, Detective Comics #38, All-Star Comics #3, More Fun Comics #73, Wonder Woman #1
When I looked over the list above, a few things stood out to me, so I imagine they might also stand out to you.
1) If we were strictly talking about historical significance, I wouldn't rank Action Comics #13 over All-Star Comics #3.
2) If we were strictly talking about FMV, I wouldn't rank Detective Comics #33 over Detective Comics #35.
3) If we were strictly talking about rarity, I wouldn't rank Batman #1 over All-American Comics #16.
The combination of the factors I first listed above helped to arrange my list. To the old-school collectors out there, I understand how ridiculous it looks to see a book like Action Comics #7 ranked above Flash Comics #1 and All-American Comics #16. Part of my logic was taking into consideration the history of the desirability of certain books. Early Actions and Pre-Robin Tecs have long been desirable, but over the past 10 or so years, that desirability has skyrocketed and it has done so during an era when values have reached higher peaks than ever before. What does that monetary-effect tell us beyond investment potential? That these books are, arguably, more desirable than they've ever been before...for collectors. The same collectors who might not have paid more than four-figures in years past are now willing to pay five-figures to get the same exact books.
Action Comics #7 has been a top-tier book for about a decade now, so peaking and holding a place near the top during the "Golden Age of FMV" has to count for something. By the same token, I couldn't neglect history and I felt it appropriate to include books like Detective Comics #1 and Adventure Comics #40. In the not so distant past, Whiz Comics #2 (#1) appeared to be a "grail of yesteryear" that had fallen off a cliff. Fast-forward to 2017 and that appears to be a different story.
So that's my list, as of July 3rd, 2017. It could change as early as tomorrow and I expect it to continue to evolve over time. I'd love to see what other collector's lists look like.
- Sqeggs, KirbyJack, circumstances and 2 others
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5
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10K as an entry point isn't all that shocking IMO. It's been a long time coming and I suspect we will see this tradition continue for classic, mega key GA books.
Slabbing has been going on for nearly 20 years and census-wise, there's not much supply. Prices have continued to escalate, driving mega key GA books out of collections and still, not much is happening census-wise.
When 0.5 copies of non-Batman/Superman books push five-figures, it makes it harder and harder for collectors to keep copies in private collections. The fact that these books are still tough to come by may be a testament to their rarity.
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13 minutes ago, Hudson said:
Cap 1 - $35,000
Cap 3 - $31,060
Congratulations to the winners!
The Cap 2 that sold for $3,477 looks like an absolute steal in comparison.
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If Bill Finger autographed the inside of the Tec #27, that adds a bit of luster IMO.
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Someone is getting a bargain if the Action #1 closes at 355K.
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In our hobby, the term "reprint" 1) has a negative connotation, depending on the situation, to which this would qualify and 2) is most often representative of copies printed well after the "first printing." Typically, this could be 1-year, 3-years, 50-years, etc. If by definition, the changing of a plate to account for the NOV stamp constitutes the label "reprint", then so be it. The wording isn't anywhere near as important as the context. Red sharpie on a red GA cover might be labeled "restoration", even if the book, both physically and visually, fails to match the definition: "the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition."
Were "NOV" copies printed 1-month after "OCT" copies? I believe the general consensus is yes. The addition of the NOV stamp, strictly in my opinion, does not make the book any less desirable than a copy of, say, Action Comics #1 that was printed 30-days after the first copies hit the press (if there were a way to confirm this -- there likely isn't). The preference for an OCT copy, for me, wouldn't be any greater than it would be for a book printed in Week 3 vs. Week 5.
What you would be getting is a book that is 99.9% identical to one printed weeks earlier, using the same inks, same paper stock, and slightly modified cover plate, leaving the cover art 100% in-tact...changing only the month listed. Technically, the OCT is still there, just covered up by NOV, so you're getting 100% of the original "first printing" in a physical sense, printed within a window that matches many other books that happen to fall under the label "first printing."
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4 hours ago, bluechip said:
I was prepared to give seller the benefit of the doubt but he didn;t post my question and then messaged me to "stop harassing (him)".
Didn't even mention that the missing last page is convenient since I am guessing it has something other than the original Action 1's black and white first page of the Chuck Dawson story.
If he believed he had an original copy, I'm sure it's heartbreaking news to discover it's a reprint, but he could have at least showed appreciation for the fact that you did your homework and provided him evidence as to what he really has. No need to insult the customer who had done his due diligence. It's not your fault he doesn't have an original on his hands.
, here we go.
Silica packs and CGC storage
in Comics General
Posted · Edited by Wayne-Tec
Are you saying that the old silica gel pack would then eventually contain moisture that could harm the comic books in the safe deposit box?
Or just that an old silica gel packet that has absorbed as much as it could would then become dry, useless and you'd lose that extra measure of protection?