Wayne-Tec

I am going to stick to GA and measure desirability by this hypothetical: In the year 2,028, if a CGC blue label 2.0 copy of each book were made available for auction, in what order would they finish?

1. Action Comics #1

2. Detective Comics #27

3. Superman #1

4. Marvel Comics #1

5. Batman #1

6. Captain America Comics #1

2 hours ago, bluechip said:

Hard to say.   In my casual but regular check of key sales listed as buy it now versus auctions, it seems like the hesitation some people have to buying something with a fixed price has increased to the point they will pay much more at auction and/or even shun completely anything with a buy now price as if it's suspect just because it's not at auction.   Putting things on ebay with a fixed price has gotten to the point where it seems almost as pointless as it is risky to put them on ebay with no reserve.   At least two people bid  past 100K for a Superman 1 in 1.0 even though one was available on ebay for 83K.   And at least two people bid over 20K for an incomplete Detective 27 lacking any part of the Batman story while there was a copy on ebay that had all the same pages, as well as the three wraps with the entire Batman story.   Sure, there were page quality issues with both books and the 27 in ebay was priced at 50% more, but it's hard not end up asking whether PQ more important than having the actual parts of the book which make it valuable.   Or whether some people just can't believe something is valuable without somebody else vying for it in real time.  

 

I think you hit the nail on the head here. I've seen the same thing. When a book sits on eBay with an asking price that seems strong but reasonable, I believe collectors are afraid that the price isn't justified because they don't know that multiple people are willing to pay just as much as they are.

In auction format, if they win, they win at a price neck and neck with what others are also willing to pay, thus, confirming in their minds that said book really is worth it. There is also the hype and thrill of an auction. A book sitting on eBay as a BIN is just there, waiting. If you're bidding in an auction, you think it's now or never.

There are a number of quality books available for sale, that can be had for fair prices if you just talk with the seller and come to terms on a number that works well for both parties. For these mega-keys, the trajectory is usually upward, not downward.

Tape or no tape, we don't often see blue label Tec #27's up for auction. This one will be fun to watch. 

1 hour ago, LDarkseid1 said:

Here are the exact pages of story/ads I'm missing and the 15th wrap is detached. My copy is kind of weird because it was folded inside out. So everything minus the 15th wrap is attached, but the stories are essentially in the wrong order. I've thought about seeing if CCS can fix it, but we'll see.

The reproduced pages above are Wrap 1 (page 1 & 32), Wrap 2 (page 2 & 31) and the centerfold (page 16 & 17). I believe those page numbers are correct. I'm not sure exactly how your book looks inside and out, but if there were a way to get the wraps in the proper order, that would be great. I do not know of such rearrangement would warrant a green or purple label. Nevertheless, I think you have one awesome book. A "complete" coverless copy with lesser PQ just sold for 14K so I don't think 8K for a copy less three wraps is out of bounds.

17 hours ago, LDarkseid1 said:

I bought this Coverless Superman 1 from a dealer at comic con this past year. Through partial trade/cash it cost me about $8K. It's missing the cover, 1st wrap, 2nd wrap and centerfold, but I'm pretty happy. Pages are pretty solid.

Sans the cover and the 3 wraps listed, 29 of 33 wraps remain (including the cover as a wrap), which means 87.8% of the book is all there. Even without a dynamic Superman page to display, lots of great stuff is still there. A Tec #27 minus all Batman parts sold for something like $22,000 and what was displayed through the slab was a color copy cover.

All copies of Superman #1 are to be cherished. It's the No. 3 book in our hobby out of seemingly limitless comic books published over the past 75+ years.

I don't know if you have other pages that are loose, but I can tell you that in the picture you posted, the reprinted Action #3 story is displayed. There were well more than 2 wraps before the one on display. I'd do a page-count of all the parts you have to make sure you know what you have.

Hey guys,

Are the new CGC slabs, with the new label, hard case and inner well (not the one's with just two pieces of mylar) sealed around all 4 sides?

The classic CGC slabs were only sealed at the 4 corners, correct? That is why they had so much give on the left and right sides.

The new slabs don't appear to have nearly as much give on the left and right sides, but I've never attempted to crack one.

Just now, Robot Man said:

Oh, I would say so on that one. Not so much on Tec27 or Bat 1 though.

Oh, I misread your post. But for the reasons I stated above, I consider Tec #27 and Batman #1 to be classic covers. But I definitely get where you're coming from.

4 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

I wouldn't call either cover "classic". "Iconic" maybe on both. The first thing you see when you open a Bat#1 is "The legend of the Batman and how he came to be". Really starts the book and the series right. 

If the cover of Cap #1 doesn't warrant the "classic" label, I don't know what book does.

25 minutes ago, rjpb said:

I would agree that both these books are chock full of cool stuff that would make them exceptional first issues of a run, even if the characters weren't as significant. I'd also mention that Captain America #1 has the first Hitler cover in comics. I'd also argue that Batman #1 has a simple iconic cover deliberately meant to recall Detective #27, but I don't know that it's "classic". The measure being that if it were the cover to Batman #7 would it be a breakout book? On the other hand a Kirby cover of Cap punching Hitler would be in demand no matter what issue it was on.

I do not believe Cap #1 is the first Hitler cover in comics, although it is the first Hitler cover in the Timely (Marvel) universe.

Without question, Cap #1's cover personifies the meaning of "classic cover." But to me, "classic" is not always defined by the quality of artwork. To me, Detective Comics #27 is a more classic cover than Detective Comics #31. Most would likely beg to differ. But the historical significance of certain books, like Detective Comics #27 and Batman #1, elevate the status of their covers. If I can do to the mall and buy a Batman #1 t-shirt, the fact that something published over 75 years ago is alive today makes it classic.

Hey guys,

I have been saving scans and photos of every copy of Captain America Comics #1 I can find to add to my archive.

I've combed through this thread, past sales through major auction houses, eBay, etc.

If anyone has scans/photos they'd be willing to share, please post them here in this thread or shoot me a PM. 

Thanks!

14 minutes ago, Robot Man said:

I would agree but I have to throw Batman #1 in there. What a book. Origin of the Batman, First Joker and first Catwoman. Just packed with great material. If I mention to my non collecting friends that I have a coverless copy, their first question is "What is it worth? Can't be much without a cover" When I tell them, they can't believe it. They have no idea what Action #1 or Detective #27 are until I tell them but they all know what a Superman or Batman #1 are. Has always been one of the biggest "holy grail" books.

You can't top the 1st appearances of Superman and Batman, but from a first page to last perspective, no Golden Age books have more historically significant content than Captain America Comics #1 and Batman #1. It's unbelievable that so much relevant, withstanding the test of time content made its way into both two of those books.

Captain America Comics #1

-1st app. of Captain America

-Origin of Captain America

-1st cover app. of Captain America (classic cover)

-1st app. of the Red Skull

-1st app. of Bucky Barnes (later to become the Winter Soldier)

Batman #1

-1st and 2nd app. of the Joker

-1st app. of Catwoman

-2nd app. of Hugo Strange (final pre-Robin story)

-3rd app. of Robin

-Classic cover

Superman #1 CGC NG Coverless

$14,200

Cap #1 CGC NG Coverless

$9,556 

I think LT-OW page quality held the Superman #1 back a little. Still, Cap #1 sold for 67% of what the Superman #1 sold for. There has been some talk about Cap #1 eventually replacing Superman #1 as the third most valuable book in our hobby. Personally, I don't think that will happen. But is the gap getting shorter?

I think one of the biggest issues with brittle pages is a collector's desire to thumb through a raw book. If preservation of condition is important, raw thumbing through pages, even carefully, presents issues. Slight bends and creases, stress on staples, all of these things are possible when thumbing through a comic book, even one with better PQ. Inability to recognize slight stress and damage makes this possible, and when the books remain raw, you're not quantifying handling damage. Who's to say a 4.0 became a 3.5 as a result of regular thumbing?

The lesser the PQ, the greater the risk, so of course, brittle pages are an issue. If slabbed however, they are what they are. Crumbling flakes at the bottom of a slab is unsettling. But if visually, outside of color, the pages look no different than if the label had said OW, I think certain books can still be extremely desirable.

As a collector, what do you value more: condition or content? If it's the former, thumbing through pages goes against the heart of your interest. If it's the latter, you'll probably find more value in a brittle Action #1 than an OW Action #2.

If money were of no object, you'd choose better PQ. But for the best of the best, value and rarity sometimes makes brittle pages one's entry-level. At that point, it's a personal choice based on your preference.

1 hour ago, Chicago Boy said:

250kish right?  What does the highest lone graded sale at this price say about Archie hanging with the boys with capes ?

I considered bidding on the Archie #1 restored 0.5 but eventually decided against it. Not because of the condition/restoration but because of other factors. I'm not an Archie fan and I do not read Archie comics. But as a GA collector, and as someone with an appreciation for history, Archie #1/Pep #22 are still very desirable. I'm sure to an Archie fan, they would mean a lot more, so I can only speak for myself.

Unlike the top superhero books, Archie's modern day connections present far fewer options. You probably won't find yourself at the water cooler debating an Archie adventure but you might find yourself discussing the MCU. I can go out and buy games from the Arkham series and live though Batman's universe utilizing technology that immerses you in a way comics don't.

Apples and oranges for sure. But if we were to look at Archie and superheroes as equally interesting characters, there's no doubt that the latter provides considerably more outlets to enjoy the character's universe.

7 hours ago, sfcityduck said:

Here's a thought experiment:

What price for each of these -

* coverless Action 1 in VG

* cover of Action 1 in VG

* married cover with coverless Action 1 in VG

I could see the two parts individually, potentially selling for more than they would together.

Completing a copy is an incredible achievement, but what is sometimes overlooked are the collectors who buy coverless books, loose covers, wraps or pages, not necessarily to "complete" a copy but because that's entry-level for the biggest books.

In the same way that we have seen record prices for 0.5's or 1.0's as "entry-level" copies, books like Action #1 have pulled out of range for 99.9% of collectors. Some swing for the fence for coverless copies knowing they'll never find a cover or be able to afford a cover in the rare event one ever surfaced.

For the best of the best, you treasure whatever parts you can acquire. Complete copies of far less significant/desirable books are nice, but there are only so many true "holy grail" type books.

9 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Oh yes no doubt.  And the price that the coverless Cap 1 just went for only a plus or minus $500 what another coverless copy went for earlier this year.   

-J.

Cap #1, to me, is one of the most desirable GA books to own coverless. Like Action #1, the splash page kicks off the origin and first appearance of the character. Joe Simon's Captain America on the splash page (correct me if I'm mistaken) predates Kirby's classic cover. Like Action #1, of course you'd prefer to have the cover, but the book is chock full of content which enhances the desirability.

13 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

Looks like huuuuge discounts for coverless copies across the board, regardless of the book.  

-J.

Discount vs. a copy with a cover, no doubt. But if we're talking one of the Top-5 as in Action #1, Tec #27, Superman #1, Cap #1 and Batman #1, you're looking at five-figures with all of the interior wraps.

5-10 years ago, those same coverless books could be had for half that price, if not less.

1 minute ago, ThothAmon said:

Very cool.  Were you happy with the result?

Yes 

11 minutes ago, jabats said:

Yeah I gotta think a complete coverless Tec 27 is a 50k + book at this point if a complete coverless Action 1 is worth 100k? Can't be far behind.

*I am biased though.

Has a coverless Action #1 ever sold for 100K?

Just now, jabats said:

Hammered for ~22k.

My guess was 15K+, this price was strong. Still, there are only so many Tec #27's out there. It's also worth noting that Tec #27 has some good material inside, in addition to Batman.

If you don't have 35K, 40K, 50K...whatever it would take to land a "complete" coverless copy, this would be your opportunity to acquire the #2 book in our hobby.

8 minutes ago, Knightsofold said:

I wish we could find out where the other coverless ones went. 

I just picked up a coverless copy (not the one in the event auction). Mine is missing 4 pages and has trimming, but I love it.

2 minutes ago, jabats said:

Coverless Tec 27 at $18k + in extended bidding.

IMO still seems like a "deal" (even though it's missing more than just the cover as posted above)

Agreed.

45 minutes ago, Knightsofold said:

I think the demand for these coverless books is low.  If only one showed up a year then there could be crazy bidding wars, but there have been 5+ Cap #1s offered in the past 2 years.   But then again if you need a centerfold you gotta do what you gotta do.  Then piece out the rest.    

Not too long ago, a coverless Cap #1 could be had for 5-6K. My experience, as it pertains to demand, has been the opposite.

I thought this copy would sell for 12-15K, so we're not there yet. Congrats to the winner if anyone on the boards won it. 

Just now, Sqeggs said:

Cool book.  Best of luck with the auction.

Thank you.

It was one of the coolest books I've ever owned.

The history behind it really gives you that "wow" feeling when the book is in-hand.

On 9/11/2017 at 3:39 PM, Dark Knight said:

And I do remember you saying that . I agree with the above as well.

Agreed.