Wayne-Tec

4 minutes ago, zen514 said:

logic is there... Are you bidding on this book? This is a 20k book big diffrence than 1-5k superman page of an action 1.

Superman pages from Action #1 cannot be had for 1-5K anymore. Some push five-figures.

4 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Maybe someone had the Bats story ?  Maybe someone was just happy an attainable Tec 27 came to market ? 

22K for a copy with no Batman pages and no centerfold is reasonable and I would not be surprised if that was someone just being happy to own the most affordable copy they could find.

But if CR/OW with 0% Batman is 22K, then SLB/trimmed with 100% Batman should be worth at least 2x that. 

When it came to brittle Superman pages vs. nice PQ non-Superman pages, the former sold for a lot more than 2x the latter. No reason the same logic wouldn't apply here.

3 minutes ago, Wayne-Tec said:

So CR/OW with 0% Batman is equally desirable to SLB, trimmed with 100% Batman?

Not in my book, not even close.

 

As a matter of fact, using the same logic that says the above is comparably valuable: Those brittle Superman Action #1 pages would sell for the same amount as the CR/OW Zatara/Pep Morgan/Marco Polo Action #1 pages.

8 minutes ago, zen514 said:

Its not cgc... also this is trimmed and almost to the borders and aslo remove from a spiral bound. The fact that its not cgc like the other and also heritage didnt nitice the missing centrfold till 5 days before the end of auction. Cgc would have caught it

 

 

If this was cgc it would be restored and the comicconnect one was not. 

 

Also page quality on this one is slightly brittle as mentinned instead of cream to off white

 

 

I think woo woo is right in the 20k range

So CR/OW with 0% Batman is equally desirable to SLB, trimmed with 100% Batman?

Not in my book, not even close.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but didn't a coverless copy with no Batman parts and also no centerfold sell for 22K or so a month or two ago?

If that's the case, this copy with 100% of the Batman story would have to be worth at least 2x that, so 40K+?

Hey guys,

Do you know how the new CGC slabs accommodate issues like spine roll, overhang and loose wraps, anything that widens the size of the book itself?

Are all slabs now the same length and width? I collect mostly Golden Age books, and there doesn't appear to be much room on the left and right sides of the slabs, and that's with books with tight spines and good structure.

Old CGC slabs would accommodate wide books with oversized slabs, it's my understanding that those no longer exist? So is there anything CGC does to accommodate books that, due to defects, have a little bit of extra length or width? If they do, where is the cut off to where they won't slab it at all?

27 minutes ago, Gotham Kid said:

Many of the restored copies likely started out as 0.5s

Respectfully, measuring the number of 0.5's on the census doesn't paint the entire picture here. Just talking blue labels...

In 0.5 there are 2 Cap #1s, 4 Marvel #1s and 11 Batman #1s.

But in 0.5-2.0 there are 6 Marvel #1s, 14 Cap #1s and 41 Batman #1s.

Of all blue labels, there are 27 Marvel #1s, 75 Cap #1s and 100 Batman #1s.

3 Cap #1s for every Marvel #1.

4 Batman #1s for every Marvel #1.

Due to demand, there's more incentive to slab Cap #1s and Batman #1s + old school collectors keeping their Marvel #1s raw (speculation on my end), I'd estimate there to be 5-10 copies of Cap #1/Batman #1 for every copy of Marvel #1.

2 hours ago, Jaydogrules said:

On the census now-

Marvel Comics 1, 0.5- 4

Superman 1, 0.5- 7

Batman 1, 0.5- 11

Captain America Comics 1, 0.5- 2

My predictions for this topic barring any additional economic crash and burns:

Superman 1 in 5-7 years

Captain America Comics 1 in ~10 years

Marvel Comics 1- Never (not enough demand)

Batman 1- Never (way too many)

-J.

 

 

I don't like to say "never", especially when all of the books listed above are as important as they are.

The supply of Cap #1, though not as common as Batman #1, is still high enough to make 100K in 0.5 tough.

Demand for Marvel #1 may not be as high as the two aforementioned, but it's historical significance is greater and supply is much, much less.

With that said, demand has still spiked for the book, however quietly.

The 7.5 Billy Wright sold for $113,525 in 2012. In 2016, a 3.0 non-pedigree copy sold for $77,675. If a 7.5 pedigree was a 113K book in 2012, what would the 3.0 non-pedigree have been worth in 2012: 30-40K? Tough to say with such a limited supply, unlike Cap #1 and Batman #1, we don't have the opportunity to see how much copies would sell for at any given moment in various grades.

The last Marvel #1 0.5 sold for $22,705 two and a half years ago. How much would that sell for today? 30-40K? With the 3.0 selling for $77,675 last year, I think 30-40K for a 0.5 in 2017-18 sounds about right.

Given the limited supply, could that value triple within the next 10 years? I don't think that's beyond the realm of reason.

20 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Maybe just the first printing in October

You would think that considering how tough October copies are to find, they'd sell at a considerable premium. Dealers who have sold copies would be qualified than me to comment on this, but I believe it's only been a slight premium.

The reason, IMO, is because Marvel #1 is so tough to find regardless that buyers don't get too worked up about OCT/NOV. Similar to Superman #1 in that respect.

At the high grade level, Cap #1 and Batman #1 could break records. But in the lower grade level, knowing that books like Cap #1 and Batman #1 are plentiful by comparison, I see Superman #1 and Marvel #1 (regardless of which printing) to be the next two in line, in that order, to crack 100K in 0.5.

Congrats! I recently hit 3,000 and have been posting since 2008. Sometimes on rare occasion, other times frequently.

I've always enjoyed your posts, especially anything Action #1 related.

37 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

That's probably the last book for quite a while at the rate things are progressing.  I'd give Supes 1 five years to hit the 100k mark.  Next in line are probably Bats 1 and Cap 1 in about 20-25 years ?? 

Batman #1 and Cap #1 are definitely next in line popularity/demand wise, but that interest is distributed amongst the number of copies in existence.

After Superman #1, and this would take a while, I think Marvel #1 would be the next in line for 100K at 0.5.

Supply a big factor in hitting six-figures for these types of books.

3 minutes ago, Chicago Boy said:

Guessing this club would be exclusive to Action 1 owners?   Maybe Tec 27 ?  What's the next book to join this club and how many years/decades down the road?  Anyone here own an Action 1 or Tec 27  .5  Blue ??

If a nice 0.5 blue label Tec #27 hit the market, it would exceed 100K in my opinion.

3 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

Is having the Winter Soldier on the cover make this book more attractive  to the young collector in 10-20 years?

Knowing that it's the 1st app. of Bucky Barnes, the eventual Winter Soldier definitely has appeal. I also think Captain America: The Winter Soldier was the best film to come out of the MCU. That doesn't hurt either.

Hey Gator,

In your opinion, what are the Top-10 Golden Age books right now by FMV and how much would it roughly cost to acquire each (equal presentation, PQ, etc.) in CGC 1.0 blue label?

Here is a coverless Batman #1 missing some wraps:

LINK

I put in an offer of 5K and it was rejected without so much as a counter-offer.

What we've been seeing over the past year or so is a strong bump in cost for coverless mega key GA books.

First low grade complete copies pulled out of range for most, then low grade restored copies pulled out of range for most.

You could have picked up a nice coverless Batman #1 for 4-5K as recently as 5 years ago (correct me if I'm mistaken), that's no longer the case. When certain grade-tiers get priced out for most collectors, they rush to the next rung on the ladder.

3 hours ago, thedude said:

this coverless, trimmed, married copy sold on Heritage back in August of this year for $8,962.50.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/batman-1-coverless-trimmed-married-dc-1940-cgc-no-grade-slightly-brittle-pages/a/7166-91047.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

 

I would guess that a nice complete coverless, that has no other issues like married pages, trimming, tape, resto, etc. would be around $12k. 

12K for a nice coverless copy sounds reasonable, if not even a little bit low. Many coverless copies are missing the 1st-2nd wraps and centerfold. If a trimmed and married example is pushing 9K, unrestored would be a lot more.

Not many books in the hobby better than this one though, so you can't go wrong.

3 hours ago, telerites said:

I am still a fan of the Fleischer animation series and although the serials were not great, I thought Kirk Alyn was a very good Supes.  Bud Collyer nailed the voice on the OTR shows and the b/w seasons of The Adventures of Superman with George Reeves (much grittier, imo) are still ones I rewatch.  I didn't grow up with those as I am 53 and do love the first Christopher Reeve film but I do wonder how generational it becomes.  I am an oddball with nostalgia to the early media and especially OTR and the serials.

Supes and other heroes being so much in the public eye anymore I believe goes a long way to momentum but for me anyway, I wonder to what extent market saturation, nostalgia, etc. drives prices by such factors.  Heck, most folks thought Mitch was nuts in the early for spending $1,801 on that Action 1.

I can relate to that. Adam West's Batman was a part of my childhood growing up in the early 1990s, ditto for Reeve as Superman. It doesn't have to be from your decade to be nostalgic.

3 hours ago, szavisca said:

The greatest impact of the current movie craze on these books may not be felt for 20 or 30 years (or at worst it may take longer than that amount of time for it to die down).

Just wait till today's 10-20 year old millionaires in the making learning these characters from today's movies, or the Christian Bale batman movies a decade ago, turn 40-50 and have money to spend and get nostalgic about their youth.

Who knows, maybe some of the action 1 craze today is technically being driven by love for Superman borne from Christopher Reeves' portrayal ...

There could be some truth to that. But will the Bale films retain the same sense of nostalgia as the Reeve films? I was a fan of the Nolan trilogy: enjoying the good and taking note of the bad while not letting the plot holes ruin the experience. The original Superman films were ground breaking though.

9 hours ago, Chicago Boy said:

any guesses as to the hammer price of the heritage coverless ??

A lot less than it would sell for a few years from now.

20 hours ago, GoldCap said:

That's cool!  How many do you have of the roughly 155 copies on the census?  Here's two I could find quickly on my computer...

I'd have to check my archives. I'm on my mobile right now. I've done this not just for Cap #1 but for others: Action #1, Tec #27, Marvel #1, etc. Not just slab scans but raw copies and photos from old price guides and books. Anywhere I can find I scan/photo, chances are I'll archive it.

What motivation did the publisher have for including this and how was this not met with objection? Or was it?

1 hour ago, Jaydogrules said:

Actually whiz is just an additional example of the impact of the movies IMO.  How relevant or enduring will the character end up being in that regard?  Time will tell.  But if you notice, my logic was two pronged for how and why I made my list as I did, and is actually not entirely inconsistent with your points (although I disagree about Bats 1, villain first appearances < hero appearances, and that includes the joker and Spider-Man and wolverine are both more popular than he is IMO).

-J.

I think Whiz #2 has been impacted, to a degree, by movie hype. But 2019 is a little bit distant, so I'm not sure to what degree that correlates (some I'm sure).

Did More Fun #73 pick up steam before or after the DCU pointed toward Aquaman? I don't think the TV show Arrow made much of an impact on the book.

As I predicted years ago, Tec #38 is back and there's no Robin film hype driving that.

How much of an impact did Man of Steel have on Action #1? Before the mixed reviews, I'm sure it helped to an extent. Personally, I really like Cavill as Superman, but I'm in the minority. Action #1, despite decline in Superman's popularity, despite mixed views towards his on screen incarnation, continues to soar.

15 minutes ago, Jaydogrules said:

Marvel comics 1 has already gone the way of Tec 1, and that trend will only escalate as the older guard ages out.  Cap 1 has already passed Bats 1 by some metrics. Superman 1, being essentially a book of reprints will lose it's lustre amongst the next, affluent generation as well but will always be a hard #6 or #7 (interchangeable with Bats 1).

-J.

Marvel #1 and Tec #1 are only comparable in some respects. The latter was not the first DC book, the latter did not feature any "superheroes", the latter's cover, though well known, is weighed down by offensive stereotype, something that will only escalate as younger generations take over the hobby.

If older collectors aging out of the hobby impacts the future hierarchy of the Top-10, by your reasoning, couldn't that knock Action #1 out of the Top-3? Batman (Tec #27), Captain America (Cap #1) and the Joker (Batman #1) are all far more popular amongst my generation (I'm 29) than Superman. If the scarcity of Superman #1 vs. Cap #1 isn't enough to keep Superman #1 on top of Cap #1, theoretically Batman #1 could jump ahead of Action #1.

For reasons stated in my previous post, I think the hierarchy of old will 1) not only be tougher to shift than you'd think but 2) might actually come back into play in future years.

See: Whiz #2 (#1) as an example of this.

A few thoughts on some of the things discussed in this thread:

I once argued that eventually, Tec #27 would surpass Action #1. As a 29 year-old collector in 2017, as someone whose generation loves Batman but often feels "blah" towards Superman, it stood to reason to me that when we rise to greater spending power, we will be more likely to invest into a character we love than a character we're indifferent towards and/or bored with.

My tastes differ from many "superhero fans" in my age group. I love Superman, I respect the hierarchy of old and I find many of the grails of yesteryear to be extremely desirable. It recently occurred to me that perhaps I'm more different than my age group than I am from GA comic collectors.

We are a unique group that has developed unique collecting tastes for different reasons. Yes, most people my age would pick Batman over Superman, but 99% of people my age will never buy a GA comic book. To be a GA collector is, usually, to have interest beyond just the characters themselves. I am interested in the history of the hobby: the development of comic books and the development of comic book collecting.

I am a bigger "fan" Iron Man than I am of the SA Flash, but as a collector, I'd rather have a Showcase #4 than a TOS #39 and it's not even close.

Where does that leave Action #1 vs. Tec #27? I could write a novel on that debate alone. Nearly 30 years of quality Batman memories lifts the importance and desirability of Tec #27, for me. But at the end of the day, Action #1 still has the slight edge. Batman can continue to grow in popularity, but he's competing against an even longer history of dominance with Superman. Superman was a catalyst for success during some of the most important times in comic book history.

Superman is an irreversible, indispensable pillar of comic book history. That carries weight beyond character preference and IMO, in the eyes of many GA collectors, that is one of the biggest reasons Action #1 has remained the most valuable book in the entire hobby DESPITE the undeniable gap that exists in current popularity between the two characters.