Bomber-Bob

I just reread the PM exchanges on this from early in the thread. During the initial exchanges, it appears the buyer wanted to keep the book but get a refund/adjustment. Seller says he would like to see the book, see the damage so mail it back to him. He added he would rather keep the book than offer an adjustment. IMO, the seller's request to mail the book back was so he could inspect the book and render a decision. In the meantime, before the seller gets the book back to inspect, the buyer submits a PP claim for a refund. Am I accurate here ? If so, why is the seller obligated to refund ?

Regarding sending CGC books already in slabs, this is fine. CGC will remove them from slab. Or you can remove them yourself and send them in raw. Personally, I would send them in the slab but it would probably be easier, from a packaging and shipping standpoint, to remove them. Whatever you are more comfortable with.

I am not familiar with this video but it sounds like misinformation to me. There is no rule book for maximum grade. All these questions for maximum grade with a specific flaw cannot be definitively answered. Anybody that tells you the highest grade for a flaw, should qualify his statement with 'In My Experience'. It is only an opinion, not fact.

I agree with this. It is confusing.

A great point. Some flaws look worse after pressing. The lack of depth gives an unnatural appearance to the flaw. A vintage, beat up comic with lots of wear should not be flat. I also dislike it when I see 'dirt' burned into the book.

Glad to see there is some renewed backing on this. In the spirit of keeping the rule simple, IMO, it should only apply to the sales thread proper. I don't think the intent of the new rule should be to eliminate but to mitigate situations where an announced book is sold via PM. And for all the outlier, situational what ifs, it's all okay. If you announce a book and then change your mind, it's okay. @Crassus If you get a big time offer via PM for more than you were going to list it for, then simply list the book for that amount.

And the book may look good for a couple months but later, months to years later, you look at the book and the creases are back. Especially sad when the book is in a slab. I don't own a press so I have no practical experience but I recognize the fact that it is an art and you need experience and have a natural 'knack' for it. A two dollar hamburger will never taste as good as a 10 dollar hamburger. Sorry.

James, first off, I apologize that I am leaning toward the seller here. I believe your side of the story and I respect you as a Boardie. I don't think either of you should be in the HOS over this. But IMO, and it is just an opinion, your acceptance of the book takes precedence over the return. Regarding nominating the Seller, I had a similar situation where I was the buyer and upon receiving the books immediately recognized they were overgraded. Since the seller stated he bought the books from Heritage, I looked up the Heritage grades and he indeed overgraded. He agreed to send me another book as compensation. I never got the book and tried to nominate him. The overwhelming consensus was he was guilty of bad service and overgrading but not worthy of a nomination. I think the same logic may apply here.

Indeed, it's very possible the bag may have hidden the flaw. Upon receipt, the buyer looks at the book in the bag and is happy, makes perfect sense. IMO though, because he replied without careful inspection, the liability is over. I'm pretty sure I've been in similar situations as a buyer, notice a flaw later on but it's my bad. However, I acknowledge the fact that the seller agreed to a return of the book. Something he admits was a mistake and complicates this whole mess. So, I think we need to hear from the lawyers on the Boards on this one. Seriously, from a legal standpoint, who is in the right here ?

I really don't know how judgement can be passed as to where the damage happened. I'm not clear on the showing the book to Vincent part. Did Vincent review the book in hand ? Was this after the scans were taken ? To me, the question is when is a deal completed. The book was received by the buyer and he communicated his satisfaction with the book. IMO, that should be the end of any liability for the seller.

The example with the staple starting on the 4th page will be regarded as a detached staple, as in detached from the cover. The flaw will be ignored in the grade but it would receive a Green, Qualified label. The example with a staple tear on the back is pretty bad. It's one of those flaws that can get worse over time. It would be downgraded as such by CGC. BTW, there is no rule book for 'highest grade with a specific flaw'. It depends on the rest of the book.

Actually, your post answers the OP's question better than anyone else as to why this is a 9.8 . Because many collectors, like yourself, don't mind it.

Take a look on E-Bay, the BC to JLA #1 is revolutionary War Soldiers. This explains it, it is not the correct BC. Ouch.

I believe you but none of this makes any sense. In my experience, if they didn't think it was safe to encapsulate my book, they would simply send the book back ungraded. For them to encapsulate it without the back cover and then give you an Incomplete grade was not fair to you. I think you talked to the wrong person. You should have asked for a grader. CGC is very good about making things right. Call them again. Oh and be sure to report back to us here !

Perhaps you are right. I actually hope I am wrong.

Ed, no, I would not consider either of those hypothetical situations a problem. Regarding the actual events, maybe you had to be there. In the middle of the sales thread, the seller announced that later that day he would be presenting an ASM 1 and an X-Men 1 . The popcorn was flowing. I can only imagine how many times refresh was hit by numerous Board members. Anyone, upon his return, it was sorry I sold the books via PM. Again, maybe you had to be there live to feel the balloon burst. I don't think it was intentional on the seller's part. I'm not here to call him out. I just think it was handled poorly. I also don't want to see this become a new pattern of selling.

Okay, I can clearly see we don't want any more rules. I rescind my suggestion. Though I don't think it was the Seller's intent, he did expose a big loophole. The way the Boards seem to operate these days we may soon see it as the new normal. Announce a book but don't list it, list something else, wait for the PM offers. Cool.

Kudos to you for asking the right questions . However, it scares me that there are probably many others out there who do not ask and just go ahead and do it. I can only imagine some of the 'experiments' out there in the marketplace.

Okay, I am surprised no one is behind me on this one and nobody else chimed in for at least a discussion. BTW, I stated no rules were violated, just bad taste. My point is this 'loophole' can be exploited and turn a sales thread into a PM auction. I believe the VCC has a rule about no PM sales before the starting time. My suggestion would be analagous to this rule.

Clink win tonight. Never saw this before but I had to have it !

Someone has a sales thread. Someone announces he is going to list two, very desirable books later in the evening. The popcorn is flowing. Someone does come on that evening and says Sorry, both books sold by PM. Realizing technically no rules were broken, it still appears to be in very bad taste. I know there are a lot of vultures out there, scooping up every available book to flip, leaving the few collectors we have left wanting but that's another topic. I would just like to see everyone, especially those waiting patiently, be given at least a chance. Upon a pre sale announcement, it should be a Board Rule the books cannot be sold via PM until the books are actually for sale. Without such a rule, sales threads can turn into pimping announcements, effectively turning the announcement into a PM bidding war. Opinions ????? Anyone else agree with me ?

I agree, perhaps a separate thread should be started to discuss.

Makes sense. I've noticed these new slabs can really magnify certain areas, especially the bottom edge.

While I personally love ASM 13, I just don't think Mysterio has nearly as much going for him as the Black Panther. The way prices are escalating lately quit thinking and just buy something !