Snake Eyes

Adventure comics 307

Blast fax KUDOS right back to you John. Thanks again for a fun sales thread

Kudos to you as well. Great prices, great packing, and a wonderful boardie to work with

Right back at you Mark (thumbs u Nice game for the Sharks last night!!!

and I re-raise you :popcorn: :popcorn: call... :popcorn: :popcorn: ALL IN :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: damn you being a bully with your big stack of popcorn...I fold...

and I re-raise you :popcorn: :popcorn: call... :popcorn: :popcorn:

Not that he needs a reference from me, but KUDOS to Foolkiller (Brian). Silver Surfer #3 arrived safe and sound. Never easy snagging a book from him, but always well worth the effort when you get a in on time (thumbs u Thanks again! SE

CGC shouldn't care one way or the other. The potential for fraud with PayPal personal is exactly the same as it is with check or money order. True, but I imagine CGC might have something to say if the sellers monkeyed with those forms of payment too. No one is dictating how you pay by check or money order if they accept the instrument. Further, no terms of use of these instruments by the post office/banks are being violated as near as I can tell. SE

Still don't see the point of explicitly banning PayPal personal payments. It's not to ensure credit card chargebacks since there's no requirement for sellers to allow them in the first place. Changed gears on your argument a bit there...only commenting that there is a protective element to using your credit card to pay via paypal. As for explicitly banning payments, I do not think this is what the board has done (unless I missed something). Instead, it seems to me they have banned it as a requirement and banned the use of advertising it in a commercial/sales thread. Both moves make some sense to me...as mentioned in the discussion a few weeks/couple weeks ago I skipped threads that demanded personal payment (found it mildly insulting and put me off on the sellers that did...seemed to be a number of boardies who felt similarly and took business to other threads). That is just a personal reason though...without speaking to them (and therefore talking out my butt ) I assume CGC ended the public and required use of it due to the legal reasons noted above. They were putting themselves at legal risk (debatable if they would have been nailed, but risk was present nonetheless) for absolutely no gain on their end. Seems a no-brainer to me :shrug: Also, as moderators that do not intervene is specific sales a blanket ban like they issued would certainly make more sense and save them headaches down the road (complaints and exceptions and case by case basis issues...all areas they have no desire to delve into in my estimation). SE

How? PayPal affords no protection to off-ebay purchases other than the lame complaint system, which at worst would only end up with the same penalty that asking people to pay with the personal option would--suspension of the seller's PayPal account. Scam artists have the same capacity to scam whether they offer any flavor of PayPal payment or not. This is not entirely true. While paypal itself offers no protection here, if you operate your account off of a credit card only you retain the protection offered by the card. Therefore, while you as an individual may not run a business and accept credit cards, by accepting my paypal payment you can. This allows me to initiate fraud and/or chargeback processes if some sort of scam or misrepresentation is being run. SE

No we don't - because we don't have evidence of that. Because it was done privately. All payments are done "Privately". Being that this is the "internet" and not a "convention sales floor" everyone pays everyone "privately". I would challenge you to show me a single instance where money changed hands in public on this forum. As well, the probation list was never for just sales thread violations, it was and is for ALL transactions that take place because of communication that began on this board, whether by PM or by posted message. Every transaction has several portions of it that are completed outside the all seeing eye of this forum. That doesn't mean, however, that they didn't happen. Based on your criteria, there is never an instance in which a seller can place a buyer on the probation list because no one here can "prove" that they weren't paid. Sure they "said" that paypal was never sent, or that a chargeback was made, or that they never got a check or money order, but since the payment was "private" they have no proof. Based on where you are setting the bar it would be nearly impossible to place anyone on the probation list. No one can prove that they "didn't get paid", can they? That's never been a criteria of the probation list and being that it allows for the ones committing the infractions to get off scott free it isn't going to be added any time soon. The buyer is more than welcome to come to this forum and state his case and present his side of it. If he refuses to do so, or doesn't want to he doesn't get a presumption of innocence he gets a judgment against him by default. Agreed Chris! (thumbs u In many cases, the transactions are conducted privately or solicited on the boards to be completed elsewhere (for example people soliciting sales on their websites or buyers who wish to remain anonymous except to the seller). This is all perfectly reasonable and should not abrogate the protections afforded to members of the community provided by the probation list. Two examples come to mind. I sold a book privately via PM that was offered on a for sale thread here. The buyer did not identify himself in any way on the thread itself and offered full asking price via PM. He never specifically said as much, but it was pretty clear that he preferred to do business outside of the eyes of the general forum. By respecting this, do I give up my right to request probation if the transaction goes sour (or recipricolly his right to do so as well). MY understanding is absolutely not. If either of us would have failed to fulfill our obligations (even made totally in private between the two of us) that person would have been eligible for probation status. In my mind this is appropriate and helps maintain an orderly community that mixes both socializing and business. The second example would be comic supply (or my understanding of the situation since it predates my presence). Apparently, he solicited sales on the forum, directing people to his site. He failed to honor numerous committments and caused quite the mess storm. He too, in my opinion, would deserve probationary status for this offense. It was certainly a point that was argued (so I am not at all saying the discussion is without merit). Nevertheless, in my opinion any of these types of offenses in my opinion are non-public in terms of the sale agreement, but would merit being placed on probation. Just my long-winded two cents SE

Kudos right back...pleasure doing business with you...will be reading for awhile given the stack of comics in the last purchase

And thanks/kudos to you as well. Books better than advertised, fast shipping, friendly seller...what more can a guy ask for? (a freebie you say ) Yep that was there too!!! Can't wait for the next thread! (thumbs u

Can the mods read PMs to confirm sales agreements through PMs? I don't want to question anyone's honesty, but we are talking about putting someone on the probation list without any public evidence that an agreement of a sale even existed. Branget's been around a long time, but this does introduce the possiblity for the probation list to be abused. Did you let him know this was a Presale before he sent the funds, or after? The mods are not going to read PMs or get involved in sales disputes. If the buyer disputes the facts as branget has laid them out and protests being on the probation list, he has a voice...and a keyboard (thumbs u Otherwise, I'm with Ryan and Fuelman...he belongs on a list. Not only did he back out of a deal, but he did so in poor form. I believe these gentlemen have the right of it as well. As mentioned, the mods will not involve themselves regardless of how the sale was recorded. To police ourselves as a community, this is how it works. Someone comes forward with a complaint. If the buyer has an appropriate defense, he will certainly be heard out. In the meantime, placing him on probationary status serves to protect the other members from also getting burned [see threads related to the Capfreak fiasco for reference on how one rogue buyer when not nipped in the bud can create a disaster]. It seems to me Jpolz that this process does help the probation list from being abused, which was the concern you voiced. If there is no case presented for the other side, he remains on probation. Should he successfully pursue a defense to backing out of the sale, then he will be removed and Branget will likely catch some heat from the community to correct whatever mistake he made (although he is a VERY well regarded seller and I find this a pretty unlikely outcome) (thumbs u

Very good, this makes perfect sense. I see no reason to change the 30 day period outside of this particular situation. I dont see a rash of complaints recently and I dont see people exploiting the 30 day rule. Sure rules are a good thing to have, but making up new ones and modifying the old ones on a whim seems like a waste. Not to mention that it will be confusing, and that confusion will be much more destructive than keeping the old rules in place. If it aint broke dont fix it. I would have to agree with this and Jason's early comment. For whatever reason of late Canada Post has not exactly been efficient in getting packages to folks in a timely manner. Currently, if I have a selling thread I am more than happy to ship internationally. However, I am not willing to put my good name on the line on a bet that something can make it across borders in a little more than two weeks. Think this would cause a bit of a chilling effect with sellers further limiting who they are willing to sell to. Of course, the counter-argument here is that when it arrives several days or a week later you are removed from the list. However, people here have a long memory for past misdeeds, but maybe not the details as much :shrug: It will be remembered that you were on probation and likely mentioned by someone, again hitting your reputation for reliability. Anyway, just some thoughts

That was worth more than 2 cents. Excellent post. Thank you sir! Got going on the post and before I knew it there were a few paragraphs (when I initially intended a few sentences).

That does not bother me at all. (thumbs u You are offerring me a choice instead of attempting to force it upon me as a fee for buying from you. I think I look at it more as someone intruding upon my decisions to INSIST/DEMAND that form of payment. Here you make your preferences clear and allow the buyer to make their own decisions

My two cents for what it is worth (as a frequent buyer). Many folks do use this site as an adjunct to their business, so many deals are not two friends working out a nice trade. Instead, two fellow collectors/colleagues doing business. Now some are friendly, so I admit there are both types... When you list an item for sale, you are choosing to do so in the hopes of obtaining funds. I, in turn, am shopping as I browse through the sell threads. Let me tell you, if I was going back and forth from stores at the mall...I certainly would not shop at the one insists I pay their fees...that is the cost of them choosing to do business with the credit cards companies (or paypal in this case). If they insisted on check or money order only, that would be fine with me as they are not trying to pass on their cost of business. Frankly, I almost always close the thread when I see this insisted upon (or am told a 3% surcharge will be added). This is a cost free platform for listing...just will not pay that fee for you. That being said, when someone cuts me a deal or I have dealt with someone awhile and consider them a friend I will add 3% to the total and pay via the purchase option (I know for sure I did this with my last three transactions). That is a choice that I want to have the ability to make however. Insisting upon my doing this does not build a trusting relationship in my opinion. So the long and the short of it is you are losing a potential sale to me (and as I read some of the complaints on the board to others as well). If the 3% is a critical amount to receive build it into your initial price...then I do not feel insulted (albeit mildly don't want to be overdramatic here )and you are still asking for the price needed. Or better yet...sell it at the original price, build a relationship with someone, and then discuss personal payments. Again, just my two cents... SE

It was a pleasure...thanks again for your business (thumbs u

And a pleasure to work with the Fat Comic Mafia as well (despite threats of broken kneecaps ) Well packaged, a freebie thrown in, and an excellent salesman! Look forward to your next sales thread

Point taken. Certainly helps me understand where you are coming from a bit better. I suppose we all come on for various reasons, and that can certainly create disagreement. Appreciate the response JC, have a good day (thumbs u SE

The same here, and lately with all these forum drives, social conscience and never-ending charity auctions, it seems that the CGC Forums needs a new logo: And is that a bad thing? To be honest such events are really what ramped up my interest in this board (and hope that over time I can become part of such a community that shares something beside Spiderman movie polls and threads to just buy and sell). Comics are a common interest and starting point for relationships on here. Some may progress beyond that, some may not. However, I have really enjoyed getting to know several folks on a personal level (which includes causes they may be involved in or unfortunately tragedies that may have occurred). My understanding is participation is always voluntary and you can offer financial or moral support as you see fit. I certainly have not had a single instance where someone tried to obligate me to any of these events/causes. Just my two cents, SE

All I can say is WOW :o :o Incredibly well-written Zonker. Certainly makes me want to delve into some research and my early 70's books to see what I can find. As an aside, I think this is an excellent way to approach a discussion about an age's starting point (if it can be pinned down at all). Helps eliminate the biases and my book suggestion is better than your book suggestion (or Jeebus help me the marvel zombies vs. the DC-ites)

oops..read the thread before posting...Count pretty much had my thought earlier Have a good night all