Tony S

On 6/6/2024 at 7:34 PM, NewWorldOrder said:

I agree every collector should look at the book and if they believe the grade matches then they should buy it, etc.

However there are many people in the hobby with basically unlimited money.  Where 100k is like 1K to us.   So they are buying the "bragging rights" and not the book.  Feel me?

There are certainly people like what you describe. But there is another reason. There are many in the hobby that have little in the way of grading skills. They can't "buy the book not the label" because they lack the experience to see defects and assess their likely impact on the grade of the book. And restoration. It's easy for experienced collectors to miss small amounts of professional restoration and tiny amounts of amateur. 

So for a good number of newbies and amateurs - "buy the book not the label" really should not be a thing. New collectors or legally blind collectors or just lacking enough experience collectors should be able to count on professional grading and encapsulation is an equalizer. What's on the label is what it is. 

On 6/5/2024 at 10:43 PM, wombat said:

All I know is if I was contemplating a 9.9 prescreen service I would be giving people a reason to use it. 

That is a profound observation. 

On 6/5/2024 at 9:46 PM, LordRahl said:

This is so spot on, I'm going to repost it every time someone says this change shouldn't happen, with your permission.

Sure. Post away 

On 6/4/2024 at 9:56 PM, LordRahl said:

I've said it multiple times on this board over the years that CGC artificially holds back 9.9s and 10s. The only responses I got were "take your tinfoil hat off" nonsense. Now everyone is up in arms about it

You and others that are very concerned with these 9.9/10 grades all of a sudden coming out (which they should have been all along) are blaming the wrong people. You seem to think CGC is creating this market. They are not. Collectors are. You have a problem with it? Blame all of us that create the market. We are the problem. CGC is doing what any other rational for profit business would do, they see a market and they cater to it in order to make money. 

I'm sure this wasn't some evil genius plan that was a 25 year plan by Borock when he helped found CGC all those years ago. It's something that probably evolved over time. But it most definitely started back then as they have always held back those grades.

On 6/4/2024 at 10:24 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Back when Matt Nelson ran his own comic pressing and restoration business - Classics Incorporated - he had an article on the website that demonstrated mathematically how there should have been more 9.9's and 10's in the CGC census. The article was quite convincing. The moment CGC purchased the business and renamed it CCS, that article went poof - even though the Classics Inc website stayed active for a time. 

I think Matt was right then.  Maybe Matt still feels the same way - and as President can now do something about it.  This basically started with the infamous interview about "how is there is not a single 9.9 or 10 on a book like Ultimate Fallout ". Matt's answer was along the lines of maybe they were to focused on 9.8 and were not looking.  So lets go over those numbers. Between the 1st and 2nd printings and the variant covers of each, CGC has certified over 8,500 copies of UF 4 at 9.8 (published 2011)  and not one single book at a MINT grade of 9.9 or 10. That seems pretty darn unlikely. 

So yeah - I too have said here on this forum before that there ought to be more 9.9 and 10's. Especially of real "modern" books - say published the last 25 years. Better printing, better paper. 

On 6/5/2024 at 9:07 AM, october said:

How they choose to format their grading standards is not nearly as important as the consistent application of those standards. This change fails that test. 

100% agree on consistency being the most important quality of grading. But if something has been done consistently wrong, it needs to be fixed. Books should get the grades they deserve. Or as Steve Borock has always said, give the book the highest grade that is not wrong.  CGC has arguably not been doing that. Despite the existence of the grades of  9.9 and 10, those two  grades were more like winning lottery tickets. 

The change may be disruptive and it may generate more submissions to CGC  But that doesn't mean it should not happen. Or I suppose we could do away with 9.9 and 10 and say the ones that exist were mistakes never to be made again.  

This is the best Friday thread in years! The responses are golden! 

Mary Jane Watson. Netflix and chill.... 
 

On 5/15/2024 at 5:38 PM, Homeboy32 said:

That is correct. The book was bent from the original CGC case, which are the last 2 pictures. That's the biggest reason why I decided to have it cracked out and pressed to fix that issue. However, the book still came back with the bend. I understand the crease may not be perfect after press, but it's the fact that it's still bent is the issue.

It's just going to get bent down again by the inner holder.  I don't believe pressing is the problem. The problem is the cover hangs too far over the interior pages of the book and the inner well will bend it down.  If CGC doesn't make the inner well fairly snug then the book can slide around which causes other - and potentially worse -  problems. 

The early Marvels had great first page splashes - sometimes nicer than the cover.  When Stan was still alive and signing books I would often have coverless books signed by him and then encapsulated. 
 

The book will get a NG (no grade) from CGC and as KCOComics noted, will be worth at most a couple of hundred dollars. Maybe only in the $100-$125 range.  I would consider sending a coverless  Avengers 1 or 4 in for grading, but not much else from that title. 

On 5/10/2024 at 7:59 AM, MachoGrande said:

It could be that proper authentication requires complete removal of the comic

JSA employs the Video Spectral Comparator (VSC) to reinforce the expert's findings. This state-of-the-art authentication tool is a powerful workstation that uses sophisticated color and infrared imaging, magnification, coaxial lighting, side lighting, and on-screen, side-by-side or overlaid autograph comparisons. In doing so, the VSC can detect erasures, reveal masked and obliterated signatures, differences in ink types, and several other signs common in autograph forgeries which cannot be detected by the naked eye.

I wish Kirby was around to draw the Video Spectral Comparator

Reholdering requires the complete removal of the comic. New inner holder, new outer holder, new label printed. 

On 5/8/2024 at 7:25 AM, MattM CS said:

Correct

So a green label - because of unwitnessed signature(s) - CGC slab is submitted in the intact, undamaged and untampered with holder for signature verification. Could the book not be treated as a reholder for grade/encapsulation purposes?  

With regrading there is a chance that books come back grading lower.  That could result in negative feelings by the owners of such books and less interest in sending in unwitnessed signatures/green label books. 

CGC's listed TAT for pressing is 15 BUSINESS days and is only an estimate. "Almost a month" isn't far enough outside 15 business days to be concerned about and falls within "normal". 

On 5/8/2024 at 4:02 PM, troydivision1 said:

What does the Signature Series hive mind think -
Will books (like mine below) that took the grade hit to keep a solid label yellow label fair better in the long run vs. a higher grade new yellow and black stripe label?
(presuming the current yellow and green labels on eBay will resubmit for the new label)

The books were dropped off at Kirby's house for his signature and picked up later. The belief is that most were signed by Kirby's wife as Kirby's health was poor.  I'm not aware of any passing authentication by BAS - but maybe some have. 

On 5/7/2024 at 9:35 PM, Flanders82 said:

Can I resubmit comics with a CGC Qualified green label for JSA autograph authentication?

Yes. Autographed comics with a CGC Qualified green label are eligible for CGC x JSA certification. Submit these books under an applicable grading tier and select “JSA Autograph Authentication” as an add-on service. JSA will determine if the autograph is genuine, and CGC will regrade and encapsulate the comic.

So if I submit a qualified label slab, the book will be regraded and I'll be charged a grading fee in addition to the authentication fee? 

Yeah --- this is a big deal. Not just the cost - but the chance of the grade going down.  It would seem logical that if a green label qualified grade book (because of unwitnessed signatures) is submitted - with the slab intact and not tampered with - that JSA would review the signatures and CGC would otherwise treat the book as a reholder. Not something the graders need to look at again. People are going to be really unhappy with their green label books getting signatures verified but dropping in grade. 

On 5/7/2024 at 11:34 PM, DELTA 62 said:

Hi.  When you go into your CGC account online, create a new submission with the online form link.  Click on "Start New Order."  Select your collectible type and then click on Signature Series.  You will then see a drop down box for CGC Authorized Facilitator Event.  The top drop down option is the list of facilitators.  You can click on each facilitator and then use the second drop down box to see which events they will be facilitating.  Just look for a facilitator attending Fan Expo Dallas.

Just an FYI... @Triston Pence is facilitating Fan Expo Dallas.

I had no idea. Thank you for sharing this very useful information!

On 4/30/2024 at 12:21 PM, DocGo said:

And this would be awful and put CGC on the same level as :censored:. I realize people really want to put their green labels in yellow but the Signature Series brand would effectively be destroyed. No one wants to squint to figure out if what they’re looking is witnessed or verified.

"Member" (what a great name) said it well. CCG  did not spend what was most likely a dump truck full of money on JSA just devalue the purchase by creating some new disliked and looked down on label. It' is near certain that verified books will have a  yellow signature series label.  It will either be in the text on the label that JSA authenticated the signature. OR - maybe more likely - there will be a snappy looking JSA logo somewhere on the label. 

If it's a JSA logo maybe people be able to see it without squinting

On 4/29/2024 at 6:07 PM, DocGo said:

I’m starting to get nervous about this. Not that I buy a ton of CBCS slabs, but the way they use the same label color for witnessed and verified sigs is terrible.

I would have to disagree. Multiple label colors are a distraction.  It's reasonable to assume comic book collectors have basic reading skills.  CBCS's labels clearly indicate if the book was "signed by xxx on xxx date" or if  "signature verified by BAS". Either way, it's a book with a signature. To those that it matters which way - read the label. 

So my hope - and expectation - is that CGC will treat verified - by JSA - signatures  to the same yellow SS label. 

I don't know what I could say that seems worthy after the first few posts..... 

I don't see any moisture damage as well.  Most collectors will be put off more by the tape and color touch than whatever you are seeing that suggests moisture damage. Like Paul's comments above, I believe what you are seeing is a result of the tape on the spine. The tape is plastic. the rest of the book is paper. Some puckering can occur. 

I would suggest leaving it as is. If you want to try to improve, then your #2 is the best option. Restoration removal by CCS requires screening (screening is optional for pressing) . So send it in -  pay for screening -  and then CCS will tell you if restoration removal and/or pressing is likely to be beneficial. (not guaranteed - but likely) Once you have their expert, in hand opinion you can make a better decision. 

Yes, CCS does clean book and press books.  The book that I believe you are talking about is not all foil, especially not the back cover. It's a glossy black and those are near the very worst about picking up finger prints and smudges. As far as cleaning all that can be done is some light buffing because anything more aggressive like erasers just removes gloss and ink and that defect is as bad or worse than fingerprints and smudges.   

 

On 4/7/2024 at 9:30 PM, Withering Wind said:

It looks like there are several color breaking finger bends on the back cover which are likely what pulled the grade down.  

Yes....Proof again that grading notes matter far less than people want them to matter.  The color breaking finger bends are easily the defect most affecting the final grade - and they are not even mentioned. 
Even with the finger bends 6.5 seems a bit harsh. But just a bit. An 8'ish range grade seems out of the question. 

$200 is probably a fair enough price as it is 1/2 of what a 4.0 would cost.  Keep in mind that in the future the book will always be worth less than a copy with no restoration and will likely be harder to sell. 

Personally, I think you'd be better off with a lower grade unrestored copy for a bit more $$. Mycomicshop has a CGC 3.0 for about $300. it would almost certainly be - over the long term - a better purchase financially. 

 

It will get restored as others have said.  To elaborate, the standard CGC employs - entirely at their discretion - has to do with if the glue was applied to do something...idk... meaningful.  Very small amounts of glue had been applied to the covers of some golden age books to keep very tiny splits or tears from getting worse. CGC sometimes gives these a blue label with notation of "small amount of dried glue on cover". 

With your book, the glue was used to attach / reinforce the cover. Very much a restoration/conservation attempt. Nor does it appear to be what most would call a small amount of glue.   

You need to post up a picture to get an informed answer. But generally speaking, stains cannot be removed with methods that will not count as conservation/restoration if the book is sent to CGC. 
Non-restorative cleaning removes dirt and pencil marks from the surface of paper (say the cover).  Stains penetrate into the paper - usually visible from both sides of the paper - and require solvents of some type to remove. The use of solvents risks a restored or conserved designation from CGC.