Jaydogrules

The countless paragraphs you've written indicate otherwise. No, its not. As it brings into question the value of these books. Except the comparison is made in this case with these incentive variants because people pay high prices for them for the same reasons they pay for OA. 1) They like the artwork 2) They like the artist, who usually has a substantial following 3) Limited production numbers These books aren't being collected to fill runs or because something noteworthy happens on the interior pages. Due to the reasons above they more closely resemble OA then they do most comic books. Thats why this isn't just another case of "you could have bought this thing instead, even though it has nothing to do with what you actually bought" That would depend on how it is said and the context in which it is said. That the book is slabbed is not irrelevant. These incentive variants aren't being bought and consumed like typical comics that are read. Your slabbed incentive variant is very much the same as a framed original or print. Its artwork, produced in limited numbers, behind a barrier. You use quotes around "the same" repeatedly. I never said they were "the same". They are similar because they are collected for many of the same reasons. Not saying its the same. In this case its comparable. So, don't bother. No, because the limited production numbers are one of the draws. An alternative to buying the incentive variant or the OA of said variant would be to buy another piece of published OA from the artist, a print of the incentive variant artwork, or a commission. You are doing that thing again where you put words in the mouths of others to make a point. I never said they were "the same". And I would suggest you quit talking down to people, but that seems impossible. For the reasons outlined above this discussion very much has to do with the thread in which it is currently taking place. 1) You don't know why any collector collects what they collect. Your points are all presumptuous. 2) This entire discourse has been about comparing some unspecified piece of OA to unspecified "variants". 3) If you have a piece of Dell'otto OA to discuss or showcase, please feel free by all means. Otherwise, please take this unrelated tangential discussion to the appropriate sub-forum. Thanks. -J.

Because the frequent contributors in that sub-forum would probably know better than the people who post here, -J.

Here is the appropriate sub-forum: http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=48&page=1 -J.

Yes, and if a collector has no interest in OA and only collects comic books, this is a moot point. I personally don't care about OA either, and even if you showed me coolest piece in the world, I would give props and probably keep my thoughts of what awesome or rare comic I "could" have bought with that money instead to myself. Buy what you like and to each his own. -J. Are you saying you don't see the similarities in the comparison? You realize comparisons can be made without you having to be an aficionado of one side or the other, right? Just to be as concrete as humanly possible here... I don't want you or anyone else to buy OA or have an interest in OA or ... really anything. I just want you to understand I'm making (what I believed to be) a simple comparison. No I don't think OA collecting (of what I am assuming you're referring to is a published work and not just some sketch that was done on a blank at a con) is comparable to comic book collecting. Even if you are looking at a singe piece of OA that's from the same comic book. Are they related? Yes of course. But owning one isn't "the same" as owning or collecting the other. It's a totally different collecting focus. -J. I think the point they are making is that with these incentive variants and the prices some of them are commanding a buyer could get original artwork from the artist instead. Artwork that would be one of one instead of one out of however many copies of the desired variant were printed. The comparison is valid since while the variant covers are comic books they aren't treated as such by collectors. Nobody is buying these pricey variants to read or because of the interior pages. Very few of them have any notable content that contributes to their demand (a 1st appearance for example) and these aren't books one would buy to fill holes in a run since they are variants and the cover price regular covers fill that void. So at the end of the day you have a book encased in plastic that you bought because of the cover art that was done by a specific artist and produced in a limited quantity. Not a huge difference between that and OA that has been framed. Yes I understand what he is saying. And again, it is still a moot point. A person could say "you could have bought a piece of OA for that price " just about any book at any price point , as there is also plenty of drekky OA out there that can be had for less than a hundred dollars. Telling somebody what they "could" have bought for the same money is presumptuous and has the slight stink of "what I collect (or like) rocks, and what you collect (or like) sucks". If you like OA, and think it's "the same" as a comic book, that's great. Go buy OA and cover your walls with it. These boards, however, are 99% about slabs and for slab collectors, so you aren't preaching to the choir when you attempt to compare a 1:1 single piece of OA to a comic book (that it is slabbed is irrelevant, slabs can be broken, and the vast majority of comics are not in slabs). But let's just say for the sake of argument, that a comic book is "the same" as a piece of OA. So there is one person in the world who owns the OA for the cover of Ms. Marvel #2 (Molina). Good for that guy. Now what about everybody else who would like to own that "piece of art"? By the extension of your logic, a framed colour copy should suffice for them. Except.... A framed colour copy isn't the original of anything. And guess what... Regardless of whether or not a copy of a Ms. Marvel #2 comic book is an "original piece of art", it is still an original comic book, thus making it unique (ie different, ie not "the same") from a single piece of OA (that cannot be owned by any more than one person). Like I said before, understanding why a Kamala fan or collector would want one of those pretty rare books in their collection, for whatever reason they want it, is as simple as understanding the collector's mentality. PS, If you wish to continue this conversation, I would suggest starting another thread in the appropriate sub-forum. -J.

Yes, and if a collector has no interest in OA and only collects comic books, this is a moot point. I personally don't care about OA either, and even if you showed me coolest piece in the world, I would give props and probably keep my thoughts of what awesome or rare comic I "could" have bought with that money instead to myself. Buy what you like and to each his own. -J. Are you saying you don't see the similarities in the comparison? You realize comparisons can be made without you having to be an aficionado of one side or the other, right? Just to be as concrete as humanly possible here... I don't want you or anyone else to buy OA or have an interest in OA or ... really anything. I just want you to understand I'm making (what I believed to be) a simple comparison. No I don't think OA collecting (of what I am assuming you're referring to is a published work and not just some sketch that was done on a blank at a con) is comparable to comic book collecting. Even if you are looking at a singe piece of OA that's from the same comic book. Are they related? Yes of course. But owning one isn't "the same" as owning or collecting the other. It's a totally different collecting focus. -J.

Yes, and if a collector has no interest in OA and only collects comic books, this is a moot point. I personally don't care about OA either, and even if you showed me coolest piece in the world, I would give props and then probably keep my thoughts of what awesome or rare comic I "could" have bought with that money instead to myself. Buy what you like and to each his own. -J.

People say this about OA quite often around here. It's apples and oranges. Some people don't care about or collect OA. OA isn't a comic book. Collectors paying X-amount for any comic book (or OA for that matter) "could" spend the money on something else. Someone "could" buy a spectacular house with the money it would take to buy a nice Action 1. Or they "could" buy the most expensive piece of OA on the market and still have 3 million dollars left over for a beachfront property in Malibu. The entire point is academic. Buy what you want and love and enjoy what you buy. Others will be doing the same. -J. My comment isn't meant to be a 'you could buy something else' sort of statement. That's a silly argument considering anything to do with this hobby is an extravagant expenditure of funds for something that is useless on a practical level. And I am aware OA isn't a comic... but at the same time it is certainly the essence of them. And I remain unconvinced with the 'apples / oranges' argument against (slabbed) books and OA. There seem to be more similarities than differences. That's true and it isn't. I just know many, many comic collectors have no interest in owning random OA. And if there's a particular comic that a collector wants or needs to fill a hole in a run or whatever, buying an unrelated piece of OA instead isn't going to scratch that itch. Understanding that is as simple as understanding the collector's mentality. But by the same token , if the original paintings of the ASM 667 Or X 23 1 ever came to market , I have no doubt that they would each sell for multiples of the comics. But looking at an awesome painting on the wall still isn't the same experience as owning a full and complete comic book, that while not as rare as a 1:1 painting, is still extremely rare and pretty awesome in its own right. -J.

People say this about OA quite often around here. It's apples and oranges. Some people don't care about or collect OA. OA isn't a comic book. Collectors paying X-amount for any comic book (or OA for that matter) "could" spend the money on something else. Someone "could" buy a spectacular house with the money it would take to buy a nice Action 1. Or they "could" buy the most expensive piece of OA on the market and still have 3 million dollars left over for a beachfront property in Malibu. The entire point is academic. Buy what you want and love and enjoy what you buy. Others will be doing the same. -J.

Memories. -J.

There's really no "premium" either way. Not enough people care. -J

Since you are asking for a subjective opinion I will give you one: The 1:75 just isn't anywhere near as good as the Dell'otto cover. And.... People only took notice of that series at all in the first place because of the Dell'otto cover (the Djurdjevic is just lucky enough to be there to catch some of those fumes). And now here's an objective answer as a bonus: The Djurdjevic is just one piece of an interlocking cover set for the month that crossed multiple titles, thus likely diluting/diminishing demand for it even further. -J.

Prestige = acclaim for a guy that I don't believe has ever drawn a monthly title and is now nothing more than a cover artist for hire. I do like most of what the guy puts out but I think it is fair to say he has become vastly overrated by some people to prop up whatever new variant covers he releases. ...or maybe people just appreciate and enjoy collecting a gifted artist's Renaissance-esque take on comic book heroes and villains and don't begrudge an artist's talent or ability to make a living... -J.

Yep- and considering the book was not even announced or offered by Marvel until after the retailer final order cut-off for that month, and then for only one week to those dealers who a) had qualifying orders (100+ of the regular cover only, none of the heavy orders of the other variant that was advertised that month counted), b) noticed the announcement and c) cared or took the time to go back into their accounts to order that one book- it's a pretty good one. -J.

Who wouldn't ? That would be like catching a lighting strike in a bottle, or nailing a winning lottery ticket. (Un)fortunately, the way the book was released , speculators (and most retailers ) never even had a chance at one, let alone a "stack" of copies. -J.

Yes they must be waiting for it to be a $10k book before they finally start rolling them out. -J.

Doubtful. It was selling big before Dell'otto was a "thing". Actually , this book is what put him on the map, and it was one of his first covers on the title. It's an ultra rare 1:100 (one of the last in the ASM tite, I think only #700 and #1 of the next volume had one later along with a plethora of others ) that very few dealers knew to order, even if they qualified. So they're just aren't that many out there (only 28 on the census , and the book is over five years old now). -J.

Yes, after the ~10% ebay/PayPal vig, $7300 would be the net on an $8k ebay price. Seller basically got his price and saved the buyer a little $. Hopefully the boardie buyer decides to post it when he gets it to officially join the club. -J.

It wasn't me this time guys, I swears! Jerome Spoke to the seller and he confirmed that his 9.8, ASM 667 did sell, almost right away for $7,300. -J.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amazing-Fantasy-15-Origin-Spider-Man-Coverless-/222302659704?hash=item33c2456478:g:~5UAAOSwImRYGkvE Flying Donut sold a coverless for $2500 just a couple weeks ago. This one just went for $3350, un-slabbed. -J.

*poof!* http://www.ebay.com/itm/381840383255?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT -J.

Little lull? This comic could be had cheap in high grade all the way to about 2013. I bought a 9.0 for $6100 that year and really wrestled with that purchase. It was one of the best comic purchases I've ever made. I want a do over so I can buy more. I was talking about the lull right before the movie came out. -J.

This movie made an insane amount of money. ST 110 will never be cheap again. I envy the people who were able to get in on the little lull it had. -J.

Okay WTF, that seriously dilutes what we are trying to do here. I want proof of that $3,500 EoS Land variant sale, they've been selling at what $500ish? *mega facepalm* THey don't even record the highest X-23 1 D'O sales price either if they are going by the biggest single sale. Jerome They're talking about the 9.9 sale of the EoSV #2 from over a year ago. It looks like they pretty much base the list off from "highest price ever paid" for a book, regardless of when that was, or whether or not it was an outlier. But yeah, a lot of their sales price data is wrong. ASM 688 Campbell also should have been on that list, along with WD #100 red foil/lucille, etc. It just seems to be "anti-variant" for some reason. -J.

Maybe the UXM 510 sketch and ASM 667 are so rare even they don't know about them. -J.

Basically everyone who hates modern books thinks every MA book will fail. Obviously they should return their Magic 8 Balls. Can't wait to see what it finishes at. EDIT: Awww 'only' $4,050 Jerome There was no usual last second bidding. Those people may be kicking themselves when they find themselves waiting six months to a year for the next 9.8 copy to un-peel itself from a long term PC. -J.