VintageComics

There were no straw men. I simply replied to your post as best as I could. Oh, there's a list is there? What is this? McCarthyism all over again?

That's an veiled way of saying I'm lying. Why would I do that? I'm not. Red84 was one of them. There are several others. One that I believe is waiting to receive something from Chip if I understood correctly. I'm not bringing it up to show that there are numbers on my side or to validate me. I'm bringing it up to show that not everyone agrees with the majority. And I don't blame people for not wanting to jump into the fray. It's no fun being painted a certain way by the mob only to have it thrown into your face at a future discussion. Some people just don't want the trouble of having to argue with a group on the internet.

Let's take the board players out of the scenario for a moment and substitute someone like... Lance Armstrong, instead. I can hear your ludicrous defense now, "He's a cancer survivor and has been through a lot, the personal attacks are unnecessary and makes you all look bad". Uh, no - because he survived a major illness it does not give Lance Armstrong a license to be a liar, cheater, bully, and manipulator. And once his true nature is revealed, it's only natural that people will express their utter frustration over the egregious situation (and the damage done). I don't understand how this applies to RMA or Chip. RMA is getting spanked by the mods for talking to much on the internet but the people goading him and talking about him incessantly are not being moderated. That's inconsistent IMO. Chip is getting nominated into the HIOS for not shipping or communicating in a timely manner. NOBODY is arguing that Chip shouldn't have his knuckles rapped for bad behavior. All me, red84 (and a few other boardies who have PMd me who probably don't want to wade into this discussion) are asking is that mental health not be swept under the rug and be treated respectfully. That's not sanctimony. I actually don't understand what you're saying here. Who is us? Do you assume everyone agrees with you? There are actually respectable boardies who don't .Some who are even waiting to receive items from Chip from what I understand. Are you saying that because I don't want to call Chip names I'm going to draw ire? I'm OK with that. I've been sticking up for the unpopular position my whole life. I can take it. My manhood isn't vested in who I agree with. Sorry if I don't understand the above.

I simply asked people to be factual rather than emotional because mental illness is a possibility. If you want to throw a grenade because it makes you feel better rather than just say he's guilty and vote, go ahead. Back later, I guess.

I love you.

And I still disagree with you and with moderation about RMA. RMA is being over moderated because he won't stop talking but the flip side is that other people won't stop talking to him either. It's ludicrous that people can make fun of the guy, poke him in the eye, call him names and talk smack about him but RMA gets the rod. I don't care about a backlash. If I did I would post things contrary to what other people believe. I do think it's important to point out when people turn from factual conversation to personal conversation. I'm a dove, not a hawk. I prefer a gentle touch rather than a hammer to solve issues. If someone disagrees with my approach I'm OK with it.

It's a holiday weekend and I've not taken the time to read all of the posts or the links to Chip's previous behavior. That's why I said he is looking very guilty to me. But I do trust in the decision making of my peers and if he needs to be put in the HOS or PL or both I support them in that. Isn't that the way things generally work around here? Or does everyone need to shout out 'off with his head' to be accepted as a member of this group?

My bold above. The problem is not people trying to "defend what he has done". No single person has posted defending any of his actions. For me, the problem with the discussion of mental illness is that the only source we have for the existence of his alleged mental illness is Chip. Ok. Not "defend what he has done", but make excuses for and try to mitigate what he has done and rebuke and turn down the level of criticism thrown his way. Nobody tried to 'turn down' anything. All I (or anyone else who was willing to be patient and reasonable) wanted was to make sure that we were proceeding on the straight and narrow and acting on facts and not emotions. I shudder at the thought of having a jury decide my future based on the way this thread has taken it's turns. And judging by the PMs I'm getting I'm not the only one. Yes, Chip looks very guilty. Yes some of you were right. No, the way we got there was not very cool.

Thank you. As more facts come to light I agree that Chip looks guilty. If all of us were found guilty on bad feelings there'd be nobody to hold the key to the jail cell.

If you are referring to me, there is no enabling. Coming from a history of mental illness, I thought the name calling and torch lighting was in poor taste. I don't think anybody (including myself) denied that Chip should be held accountable for his actions. I don't see any enabling. Do you? Yes, I do think you're enabling his actions, both by sending him comics to sell at a time when he should be looking for a real job, and by defending his behavior. And by saying "I think he's wrong, but..." You most definitely are defending his actions. I respect the fact that he's your friend, and that you choose to see the good in any situation, but how can you defend him looking to buy toys at a time when he's claiming that he's destitute? He should be looking for work, signing up for a class to learn some skills...Not looking to buy the limited edition Leia with camel toe action figure. I guess the people that sent him checks should sit and spin while he uses their money to buy another bandaid for the bullet hole that is his life, because who could possibly pass up a deal like that?! Yuck. As for his "mental illness", did he show you medical records? Or are you taking his word for it? Because speaking only for myself, his word means mess. I also have people in my life that suffer from mental illness, and I think it's disgusting that someone would toss that out there as an excuse to swindle people. I see what they go through, and what the people around them go through. You know as well as I do, there's a difference between clinical depression and "feeling depressed". This will be my last post on the topic as I think we're going in circles (and this is a reply to all who feel I'm defending the indefensible). I no longer use Chip. The last time I offered for Chip to sell my books for me was earlier this year. At the time I felt he could genuinely use the help and I'd rather throw a lifesaver and be wrong than not try to help and be wrong. Chip is a friend in the sense that many board members are friends. We've interacted over the years, we've talked on the phone, we've emailed many times and we've never met. And while I was speaking about [possible] mental illness, I preferred to keep the adjectives, name calling, posturing etc to a minimum. Being that mental illness is a subject that is close to home for me I'd rather err on the side of caution rather than just call someone names on the internet. I think it's the mature thing to do. Did I speak to his doctor? No. I didn't launch a full scale investigation. I'm too busy to micro manage someone on the other side of the continent when I have 6 kids and a small business to worry about. I spoke to the hospital he was checked into and left it at that. @ Comix4fun, yes I did leave that part out. I wasn't trying to make any excuses for it. It's my opinion that mental health can affect things like coping mechanisms, communication with other people, digging yourself out of a hole you've dug yourself into and just routine things that we all take for granted. I'm not saying that Chip is necessarily mentally ill at thjs point, or making excuses for him, I'm just saying that it's a possibility. How do I know? Because I used to have the same issues 12 years ago. When money was tight for me I used to have anxiety about getting back to people in a timely manner. As I said in the Jimbo707 discussion, people are complicated. Not everything that is straight forward to you is straightforward to everyone., @ Chrisco - I just thought the name calling was over the top. Other than that I agree (and have from the start) that he needs to be held accountable for his actions. If his behavior falls into HOS or PL territory then he should go in there. And if Chip reads this, a very important lesson I learned [often the hard way] is that it's not the big things you do once in a while that define you, it's the little things you do all the time.

Chris, Am I in the Twilight Zone? Where did I say I was a dissenting vote? I have repeatedly said that Chip needs to be held accountable for his actions. Do you guys need me to roll up with my guillotine to make my point?

It is pretty funny.

It has nothing to do with Chip. I'm just trying to show that the craiglist entrapment incident put on by Brock really doesn't prove anything (as I agree with crassus and FineCollector). And it shows a lot more about Brock than it does Chip IMO. As I have repeatedly said, Chip needs to be held accountable for his actions. I just disagreed with the way it was initially handled.

If you are referring to me, there is no enabling. Coming from a history of mental illness, I thought the name calling and torch lighting was in poor taste. I don't think anybody (including myself) denied that Chip should be held accountable for his actions. I don't see any enabling. Do you?

I'm inclined to agree, but for the record, reading the for sale listing with an asking price for the toys of $150 (for 45 figures and 3 ships) with the implication that some are in their original boxes and never opened, can I ask just how tempting this ad would be? I do not know anything about vintage toys, so I am asking as temptations go if this is a potential lottery win, or just a decent potential flip, or pretty much all they would be worth? For the record, the craigslist entrapment scenario doesn't sway me. As I said earlier, Chip's lack of communication and lack of performance is enough to indict him. When I joined this forum 12 years I was so broke I used to have to borrow money from Louise just to pay for gas to visit her some days. Thankfully, she saw a long term investment in me. But if I saw a deal like that pop up somewhere online I'd have been all over it and figure out how to pay for it after the fact, thinking that I can make my money AND repay debts. So it's a non-sequitur for me. Maybe the fact that crassus, FineCollector and myself are all Canadian is the reason we agree?

Personally, If it's not an acute situation where someone else's well being is in harm's way I'd rather err on the side of caution on the topic. The topics of mental health and accountability can both be satisfied. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Brock, Thanks for showing what an insensitive (and pompass) person you can be. I can verify my previous posts with details but I don't want to talk about someone else on the internet needlessly so I'm done on this topic now that I've made my point. If someone needs more details they can reach me privately.

We know.... Do I jerk the one on my left or right ? What is the etiquette of a circle jerk anyways? Do we all start at the count of 3? Go with the flow.

As I said, holding someone accountable and lighting torches are two different things. If someone caught Chip with a kilo of cocaine and a room full of hookers that he bought with everyone's money I'd say light the torches. But when you are dealing with mental illness, it's not about 'good ole' know how' and elbow grease. There are deeper issues and they deserve a little more respect. I know first hand. Want to nominate him? Throw the book at him. I'm with you. But can we please stop with the derogatory comments? That does nothing positive. You keep talking about "mental illness". Why are you so certain he suffers from that? After some board members called the authorities, he was checked into a local hospital. While he was checked into the hospital he had 5 figures large in books of mine that he couldn't get to. His hospital called me on his behalf because Chip wanted me to know that there would be a delay in auctioning the books. I missed the call, googled the number because I didn't recognize it and it was a hospital in Myrtle Beach. I called and spoke to someone at the hospital.

And I just want to comment that I remembered someone offered to help but didn't remember who it was. I think it was really cool of you to offer to help.

You are my right hand man.

As I said, holding someone accountable and lighting torches are two different things. If someone caught Chip with a kilo of cocaine and a room full of hookers that he bought with everyone's money I'd say light the torches. But when you are dealing with mental illness, it's not about 'good ole' know how' and elbow grease. There are deeper issues and they deserve a little more respect. I know first hand. Want to nominate him? Throw the book at him. I'm with you. But can we please stop with the derogatory comments? That does nothing positive.

You're a total finger wagging, know it all, jerk off sometimes. In cases like this it's better to just not say anything than show everyone how right you can be. Its funny that you take this "holier than thou" attitude. I'm SOOO sorry that someone you befriended on the internet has turned out to be a lazy loser. Yup....said it point blank: Chip is a loser. No other way around it. He preys on others using his self-inflicted poor choices and when people, out of the kindness of their hearts decide to help them, he continues to be his worst enemy. How long do you throw good money at bad problems? How many people does he continue to deceive until people actually get it?! And for the record, you can kiss my ! You think you're so much better b/c you fail to call a spade a spade....or that you'll "help out a fellow man." Well I have the balls to say exactly how it is. And it's not one time, or two times...its YEARS... YEARS of Chip cheating and manipulating people. Theft....yes, it is theft. When you buy something and hold the items for weeks/months/years in some cases...then yeah, that's theft. So you keep on walking the straight and narrow. You keep on thinking you're better. You're not better than anyone.....and yeah, I'll continue to rail on your Facebook friend.... B/c at the end of the day, he's nothing more than a leech who's admitted on more than one occasion that he's too lazy and unmotivated to MAN up and do what's necessary. It has nothing to do with better or worse. It has nothing to do with Facebook friends and it has nothing to do with tribalism. Didn't I just post that people need to deal with Chip at their own discretion? It has everyting to do with maturity. "I told you so' and self righteousness is for immature people. Let's hope your children don't grow up to be 'losers', because quite honestly nobody knows how they or their offspring are going to turn out but if they do let's hope someone gives them a soft place to fall once in a while. Seriously? Once in a while? Are you that naive or just stupid? It's a pattern...over YEARS and multiple places. Its ok that you cannot see the forest for the trees Roy. Chip is a loser, plain and simple. He's 44 and will not get/keep a job, cannot keep a place to live and constantly tugs at people's heartstrings to solicit donations to pay off a PayPal loan. There comes a point where he needs to be called out for his repeated mess. That time is now. As for children, it would be wise for you to take care of yours and not concern yourself with mine. Pretty sure mine will be just fine.... As I said, put him on the PL. But your self righteous bashing and posturing is nauseating. Not because I don't like you, because it's high school behavior. The truth is you have no idea what the future holds for you or your family but in my experience, being sure that everything will be fine is usually an open door for that not happening. Life has a way of humbling us that way. I concern myself with the well being of all children, sorry to offend you. And thank you again for reaffirming to the general public how self righteous you are.

One of the major problems with society is that we are taught to act out of fear of punishment. Many current members of society were not taught to act out of want but out of need. I know I wasn't raised to think that way. "Wear your seat belt or the cops will write a ticket" "If you work it just right, you can scam your insurance company for this much" "Pay your taxes or the taxman will come after you" "Wait til your father comes home" How about we teach kids that paying taxes is a good thing because it pays for all the awesome liberties we have? Society is until this changes. Another one of the major problems with society is a lack of accountability. As it relates to what's going on in this discussion, if people were accountable, the Probation List (and fear of being put on it) wouldn't even need to exist. Dude, that goes without saying. Having 6 kids, I've learned that consequences are my only sanity. But holding people accountable and circle jerking each other and bashing people struggling with health issues are an entirely different thing. Most of the people here know that Chip was dealing with depression earlier this year. , one of the board members even called the police on him to make sure he was OK. And yet many people who witnessed that are happy to just sit and talk about what a jerk Chip is. That tells me that people don't believe that mental health is a real thing. And that is the biggest struggle that we face as a society today. Mental health is real. It's killing people and injuring those that don't die because of it. I know first hand. My sister committed suicide. Another attempted it. Two aunts attempted it. I have a brother who is estranged. You want to hold people accountable, I'm all for it. Put Chip on the Probation List. But continual posts about how dishonest someone is, is not profitable to anyone except someone's ego.

Oh, just mentioned that because I'm known for posting a lot but I made my post about Chip short. Get off me, Canuck!