paqart

2 buls-eyes and a total of 4 points. If only the other two rounds went as well. To have a shot at 6th, I may need perfect scores from now on.

I have some hope this time. I got a Superman emoji.

On 4/30/2024 at 8:43 AM, CGC Mike said:

Still waiting on grades from:

@1337pino @Ahsoka Tano Jedi Apprentice @aj_curated @BlackOut21 @BrashL @brumil190 @canickus @Cerebus3000 @CHASEnBLUE @Cman429 @comicstock @Cushing Fan @Darwination @Deputy Dan @Doctor Dositheus @Dormian @frozentundraguy @grendelbo @jbpez @jcjames @KryptoMayor @Motor City Rob @Nschenks @Panda2 @paqart @pmpknface @TC33 @TheGeneral @thehumantorch @TheTallGuy @thingsofstuff @toro @TTG @WilliamLunt

Grades sent

On 4/28/2024 at 8:30 AM, Axelrod said:

You can't please all of the people all of the time.  Or some of the people any of the time.  I think mixing it up has been great.  

I appreciate these contests and everything you do for this community. 

I find the moderns much more difficult than GA, but I don't mind. Noticing the pain and wanting the pain to stop are different things. In this case, it's good practice.

On 4/28/2024 at 1:02 AM, Domo Arigato said:

Not trying to pile on, but just out of curiousity as well.  Since you've been a board member in here for almost 10 years, I would assume you have collected slabs for at least that long.  How have you previously never managed to see the older slabs with the wavy labels and the Title/Grade sticker on top?  

 

Not that I think it matters, but I have not collected slabs for that long, and I joined CGC during a period when I wasn't collecting comics at all. I was trying to find information on a store I used to grade comics for called Recycle Books, and that led to a post by someone here. To see it, I had to become a member. To my surprise, the guy remembered me, though I was doing that work back in 1978. I had almost no interactions after that until I moved back to the US after finishing my PhD in 2018. At that time, someone at the town dump gave me a stack of comics as I was tossing out all the boxes from the move. The stack included a Giant-Size Man-Thing #4, with one of my all-time favorite Brunner covers. At that time, I may not have ever seen a slab, though I'm not sure about that, because I had been to a couple of Strip Beurs (comic book conventions) in the Netherlands. However, my interest in those shows was to let my daughter have a good time while I talked to some artists I knew, and largely ignored the comics, which were almost all European. The GSMT4 got me interested in comics again, so I started looking for SA/GA comics, mostly GA Barks. 

I bought my first slab, a New Teen Titans 2, in 2020 or so, after reading about newsstand editions. I felt like an insufficiently_thoughtful_person for buying it, but since then have accumulated over 100, though 75 of those were sent in by me. The ones I sent in were all moderns and were put into whatever slab was current in 2022. The remaining slabs are mostly for current newsstand editions of modern comics that almost certainly wouldn't have been worth putting in a slab until at least 2010. None of my GA comics are in slabs. The CMA 51 would have been the first if I had kept it. The reason is that I don't like to have slabbed comics that I actually want to read. Since I don't read the modern comics, I don't mind they are in a slab and it seems to help their value for trading later, though I haven't sold or traded any yet. I do like reading the Binder/Beck stories, so I wasn't that happy about getting the 51 in a slab, but all the other copies were in such bad shape I didn't want them anyway.

I'd be willing to buy certain GA comics in a slab, but not many. For instance low grade comics that have great covers but are in such awful shape that they can't be read anyway (like early issues of Action)

On 4/28/2024 at 12:48 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

And succeeded brilliantly. Not sure why you use this video, because it makes it seem like you don't think you succeeded. What about my other question though? I'm  curious whether the inner portion of the slab is sealed on all six sides or not, meaning two layers of plastic between the comic and the outside of the slab.

On 4/28/2024 at 12:26 AM, newshane said:

No. But if you tell someone they are wrong, you better be sure that you are right. 

So if someone tells me I don't know geometry because of a misunderstanding about the shape of a slab, he has to know geometry better? Look, RMA ruffled my feathers, but I'm cool now. maybe you don't need to take this any further. I wanted some info and got it, though it was difficult because of the way I described the problem. As a teacher, my position is that the reward for ignorance is education, not a demand to be less ignorant.

On 4/28/2024 at 12:17 AM, newshane said:

I mean, if you're arguing about the construction of a slab, then yes...you should enter the conversation with some basic knowledge. 

So I have to know the answer to the question before asking? Is that right? Or do I have to know the answer to this question also before asking?

On 4/27/2024 at 11:37 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Andrew. Allow me to break my "vow of silence", as it were, for a second, because you're taking some very aggressive shots at me, none of which are justified. When I first responded to your drawing, I had no idea that you had no idea how the mechanics of Gen 2 cases (which is what you have) worked, so I was reminding you...yes, with my "crude" drawing...that what you had drawn was physically impossible without A. popping another corner post, or B. (and infinitely less likely) warping and damaging the inner well and comic inside. Most people I know who spend $$$ on slabs have seen one or two cracked out, or have done it themselves, or at least watched a crackout video on the internet, to familiarize themselves with how the product they're putting so much trust in works. You don't need to crack a 4 or 5 figure slab to do that.

And now, you're angry...again...because you didn't understand what you were dealing with, and when someone gently corrected you, reminding you of the properties of the inner well (and not knowing you didn't know those properties)...with a picture, no less, which is about as non-confrontational as it gets...you immediately assumed bad faith, immediately assumed someone was "making a joke at your expense." But nothing could be further from the truth. I don't need to be "right" at the expense of others. No, I want everyone to be correct, so that everyone works from a position of knowledge.

I am a buyer AND seller of slabs. It is not only in my nature to be factually correct about the things that interest me, but it is in my business interests to make sure that misinformation about slabs doesn't proliferate. While everyone was praising your admittedly excellent drawing, they had missed the fact that there was a glaring error in it: the idea that a comic is not sealed into the inner well, and can simply be "tilted" and "pulled out" if one corner post is broken. That is not correct, for ANY generation of slab.

My goal wasn't to make you feel stupid. My goal was not to anger you. My goal was not to belittle you. My goal was not to "tweak" you. My goal isn't...and I cannot emphasize this enough...to "shoo anyone away", but to make sure everyone goes into comics with KNOWLEDGE, because knowledge is power. People who know what they're doing are much, much less likely to be scammed, taken advantage of, or, as in your case, assume they're being taken advantage of when they're not.

My goal was to bring you to understanding, and prevent MISunderstanding in others who, like you, don't know the mechanics of these cases, how they're designed, and how they function, and might look at your drawing and internalize it, thinking what you drew is possible. It is not. It never has been. And it's important that that idea was corrected.

So, just so you know: for Gen 2 (which is what your slab was) slabs, the inner well is nearly the entire length and width of the case, and it is divided into two parts: the bottom part where the comic is is completely sealed by a sonic weld on all four sides and cannot, outside of QC issues, be opened without cutting on the inside of that weld. The top part contains the label, and is lightly welded into the label on both sides, while the top is unsealed and open. 

I get it. You're a very educated and talented man. You spent a lot of time and energy getting to where you are. And no one likes to be corrected, especially in public. But there are a lot of people who know a lot more than you AND me about many subjects here. And there's nothing wrong with that. Instead of assuming bad faith, perhaps just asking "what do you mean by that?" would smooth out the rough spots that may not actually even exist. Everyone has something they know that others don't, and learning is a lifelong process.

I hope my explanation brings clarity, if not reconciliation.

Excellent answer, thanks. The pictures weren't working for me. Now that we're both talking, let me ask something you may think you've already answered, but isn't clear to me: I'm thinking of these cases now as a box wedged between two halves of the outer shell, secured by the four corner posts. I didn't examine the partially open CMA closely enough to see if the inner box was sealed on all six sides. It didn't occur to me that it might be, or I would have put on my higher powered pair of glasses to see it better. I also may have used something to prop the corner open while I photographed it (something I didn't want to do for fear that doing so might make it worse). One of my photos did catch the label slipping slightly over the "wall" between the label's and comic's portion of the inner box, but from what you're saying, it could do that and the comic still couldn't be removed because both are essentially in the same box together, even if there is a wall between them. The reason is that the wall doesn't extend and join with a "ceiling" which would have to be transparent, because I didn't see anything like that. Another shot, a close up of the yellowed edge of the comic, makes it look like the label could, if so motivated, move completely over the comic, or vice versa. I don't see a layer of plastic over them, apart from the hard case which easily lifted from the corner. To me, it looked like, when viewed through the open cover, I was looking at paper, not a plastic cover over the comic. Are you saying that isn't possible?

On 4/27/2024 at 11:01 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

"As if". It's an important conditional expression. I didn't say it was your intent, but I was inspired to stop buying comics altogether for about 24 months or so. I was making up for lost time, but am feeling inspired again.

You don't get all the credit though. Getting back to this thread, what do you think of the situation with Zaneglor? It's beginning to look like this incident won't have any long-lasting impact on the hobby at all, and any losses suffered by collectors will be minimal.

Anyway, this is totally off-track now. My apologies, it wasn't my intent. RMA has a fantastic but risable talent for tweaking me (and others, apparently). Not a skill I'd be proud of, but it is undeniable.
In other news, anything happening in the Zaneglor cases? I'm glad to hear owners of tampered slabs will finally be getting compensation, though now I wonder how that will be determined. From CGC's perspective, it would be very easy to lowball collectors, and from the collector's perspective, almost any offer could be construed as lowball. This would recommend a higher settlement from CGC where there is no requirement to do it. Hence, the dramatic tension created by the situation. It seems to me that the individuals who bought from Zaneglor could have actions against Zaneglor even if compensated by CGC because they were inconvenienced, placed in jeopardy (if they had sold tampered holders), and may have lost opportunities to sell at higher than the settlement price.

In some cases where a buyer is duped, they can be attacked as incautious for buying something at a price so good that they didn't look carefully at what they were buying. That doesn't seem to be the case here, because the comics were won at auction, meaning, highest possible price. They weren't overlooking defects to save money here.

On 4/27/2024 at 9:25 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

On 4/27/2024 at 10:03 PM, Ccccccccccccc said:

I'm just glad this thread is capable of getting worse 👍

On 4/27/2024 at 9:51 PM, newshane said:

So…someone else is responsible for your…lack of information? I’m trying to understand your angle here…

The problem was that you didn’t realize the inner well had separate compartments for the label and the comic? Have you never cracked a slab before? 

No I haven't. Should I? Is there some reason why a collector, not a dealer, should busy himself cracking perfectly good slabs he paid thousands of dollars for? Good grief. I feel like I stepped into a world where the height of moral virtue is to know the exact location of every lemon peel in an alley, and where fights will take place to establish dominance. These conversations are much easier when there are no efforts to try and score points by making mystery posts understood only by the chosen few.

It was a conversation like this around 2018 or 2019 about newsstands that decided me to stop buying comics for about two years. That conversation involved RMA also, if I recall correctly. It's as if he wants to shoo people away from the hobby. This conversation is heading in the same direction, and I actually work in the industry off and on. I feel like an auto designer who meets a customer and decides, "that's it, I'm going to be a statistician."

On 4/27/2024 at 9:36 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

 

Namely, that the holder for the comic inside the main holder is connected to the label holder. I didn't know they were the same tray. You adding that black line looked like a mistake to me, not information. This is because you didn't write anything, you just made a crude adjustment to an excellent illustration, and assumed I'd know what you intended to communicate. And speaking of which, I'm still not completely convinced because I didn't see anything to prevent lifting the comic out of the inner tray and moving it separately. The label had slipped over the edge into the area reserved for the comic, and it looked like the comic was moving enough to pull it out if I used a thin piece of metal, like a palette knife, to scoop it out.

On 4/27/2024 at 9:14 PM, newshane said:

People these days are soft. Debate is squelched. Honesty abandoned. 

I admire the few straight shooters left in the world. I wish there were more of them. 

If you mean RMA, and my apologies if you don't, he is not a "straight-shooter." He too often assumes facts not in evidence for the sake of gotcha moments designed to make people look like insufficiently_thoughtful_persons because they were unaware of the information he withheld.

On 4/27/2024 at 9:10 PM, LordRahl said:

While I agree and enjoy his, let's say wordier posts (I know that's not a real word), he's doing a fine job of getting his point across with images and emojis so hey whatever works and doesn't get him banned. It's unfortunate that people are so thin skinned that they can't take a poster who has a very deep knowledge base on things he posts about, just because he doesn't sugar coat things. Sugar coating things isn't all it's cracked up to be but that's just my 

Sugar coating and leaving out essential information are different things. If a mechanic tells me I can't count and I am a certified CPA, I'll be inclined to argue. If he means I don't know how many pistons are in my engine, he's making a totally different claim outside my expertise that I might agree with. Doing things like that is a way for a person with expertise in one field to feel superior to people in other fields who may have less knowledge of the field in question. It is annoying more than clever.

On 4/27/2024 at 6:55 PM, Buzzetta said:

I guess anybody can stay at a Holiday Inn these days. 

Your "degrees" and "manifestos" don't amount to much in this area and when it comes to matters such as these, related to comic books and slabs I would defer toward RMA and quite a few others. 

Your slab was not tampered with.  This is eye rolling as now it seems you might realize your mistake but are trying to convince yourself and not the rest of us of your "side". 

 

This place is getting to the point that it's best to just read only.    

Maybe there are even more reasons than I realized that I have not bought a single comic book or piece of art this year.

Disney World was great.  Old San Juan was great.  Other places to go see, spend my money on and things to do.

 

I was responding to a snarky comment by RMA that implied I didn't understand Geometry, which happens to be a subject I know very well. What I was unaware of was that the label and comic section of the inner holder are joined, which has nothing to do with the "Geometry" reference RMA made. It would have been relevant, though impolite if I had been aware, but I wasn't. In any event, the real issue is that the corner was broken and others didn't seem to notice that. The tampering issue was settled with Adamantium's first or second post. That was not my interest in continuing. 

I don't understand the Holiday Inn reference.

In any event, you're right, the issue is dead. I thought I saw tampering. It wasn't. It was a dmaged holder, so no big deal, except the responses made it sound like boardies here thought broken holders were both normal and acceptable. That made me think, "to hell with this. If that's the case, I can't ever trust one of these again." That misunderstanding, on both sides, is what we were discussing. However, according to Adamantium, these aren't normal or acceptable, so I am satisfied.

The last few spasms of snarky posts are expected, so have your fun. Signing off.

On 4/27/2024 at 3:36 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

 

Okay, so you're saying that the comic and label section are connected and that the comic is sealed inside so it can't be removed separately? It didn't look that way to me. When I looked in through the open corner, it looked like the comic was separate from the label part of the container. Maybe they are both sitting in the same tray, but can be manipulated separately? It's gone now, so I can't check. You know, if this was what you were saying, a few words instead of all the snark would have made it easier to appreciate the possibility you had some real information to offer. I found a patent drawing for the case. It validates the idea of both being in the same tray, but it seems like the comic well is open, held open only by the top cover, which is what it looked like to me. If that is the case, then the comic could be removed as I illustrated. Otherwise, you may have a point.

Ten points. Holy cow. I do much better on GA comics than these new ones.

On 4/27/2024 at 12:12 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Call me if you want some lessons in geometry, dimensions, volume, etc. I've only written three books on computer graphics that cover the subjects.
EDIT: I just remembered that my PhD is on a related subject, and my publisher liked my thesis so much, it was published as a book also, so that's four books. Totally forgot about that, though the fourth book is technically more about topology than geometry. Still, it's related. It helps that I taught the subjects at university for twelve years also.

On 4/27/2024 at 12:36 PM, Dr. Balls said:

RMA not holding back this morning

It's been pent up for too long.

On 4/27/2024 at 12:12 PM, RockMyAmadeus said:

Right. You seem to be trying to say that the comic book is the size of the entire case, which it isn't. Again, nice comedy bit, but you need more seasoning before you go pro.

On 4/27/2024 at 11:44 AM, RockMyAmadeus said:

It fits, but thanks for the lame gotcha attempt, it was tepidly amusing. I wasn't drawing to scale. There is only so much time to make things like this when there is real work to be done elsewhere. 

On 4/27/2024 at 9:04 AM, DC# said:

Is no one going to say how incredible this illustration is?    Sorry the holder is messed up but huge kudos on your visual communication skills.    

Thanks. I used to draw comics for a living, in case you didn't know, and still draw them every once in a while: https://www.paqart.com/