Andahaion

22 hours ago, Hekla said:

I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread, but a couple of Arizona comic artists, Scott Godlewski and Ryan Cody, have a podcast where they discuss comics and beer. This latest episode they talk about how they, as struggling artists, collect comic art and feelings about selling their artwork and doing commissions.

Coincidentally (or not?), this particular episode was sponsored by Felix.

The Illustrious Gentlemen (also on iTunes)

https://tigshow.com/

Thanks for the heads up.  Listened to it on commute in this AM.  Always enjoy hearing new perspectives on the hobby.  

@JadeGiant  Appreciate the thoughtful response, thank you.  As luck would have it, I received a few personal notes from other boardies who read my previous posts where I expressed a bit of frustration.  One gentleman was kind enough to jump on the phone a few times to discuss OA (Twanj).  As you and others have pointed out, that is really the best way to learn.  And, I'm attending Baltimore Comic Con this year so will look forward to perhaps connecting with some folks.

Not sure if you saw my update in another thread but I have acquired my first piece.  It is a work by Jim Starlin from Death of the New Gods.  Starlin is a personal favorite of mine, but I've never read that book.  To your point, it wasn't very expensive (about $300 shipped) and it's in a new frame and up on the wall already.  I'm not looking to fill portfolios with $300 pages, but I might be in for one more smaller page as a learning experience.  I have toyed with posting a WTB ad here, and am starting to really believe that may be the best avenue to pursue additional purchases.  Obsessing over dealer sites and google searches gets one only so far (ie, further confused, ha).  

Here's another illustrative example of how little I know.  Maybe someone else would like to comment, or not, but it's interesting to me at any rate:

I found a Starlin cover (not trying to collect just Starlin, this is just happenstance) for sale on CLink for $2,900.  In my opinion it's a nice modern Starlin cover that he did as a variant to the Superman Unchained arc.  It is a nice big rendering of Supes and Mongul (a Starlin creation) engaged in fisticuffs.  At first glance, I thought to myself $2,900 is a good price.  Maybe even cheap.  I'm not 100% sure why I thought that, I think perhaps based off all the  interesting market info I've read about OA in the past 6 months or so.  

So, a google search for the cover revealed a thread from this board from February 2016 where that cover sold for $1,600 at auction.  And now the ask is $2,900...I'm not sure what that means other than I probably should wait to buy something like that.  That said, is it the market?  Did it sell low a year and a half ago?  Is what Felix purports on his podcast about buying high and selling higher needed to be applied here?  These aren't directed at you, just questions that entered into my mind.

I'm over-analyzing, sure, but for good cause.  And if I'm going to spend the kind of money I think I'm going to spend on comic book art I'd like to better understand the landscape.  Cheers.

This thread is eye opening.  Not sure what else to say.  I've also come across an example recently.  And one really doesn't have to look very hard either.  Makes me hesitate to pull the trigger on anything.  

On 8/20/2017 at 3:38 PM, MagnusX said:

I am not a fan of Jim Lee "For Tomorrow" or "Unchained"
but that is just because of the writers
the stories are both weak or bad,
the art is great, but without a solid (Story) foundation they are Mehhh at least...

There are pages here and there that are just Amazing;
but if you are looking for Great Superman / Jim Lee pages
go for: "Batman / Hush" or "Justice League"
All Star Batman is another place to look
Miller dialogue and Lee art it's a perfect combo...

21 hours ago, rocket1312 said:

For Tomorrow came right on the heels of Hush, during an era which I think a lot of fans (especially those who weren't around in the early 90's) consider to be "peak Lee."  He hadn't been doing regular art in a decade at that point and the buzz was off the charts.  Unchained is much more recent, obviously, and there's probably little nostalgia for it yet.  It's also a New 52 title, which for a lot of people means not the "real" Superman.  I don't think either story will stand the test of time the way Hush has, so the two may eventually blur together in terms of market value.  I think For Tomorrow will always remain slightly ahead though primarily because of the New 52 thing.

Thank you both, appreciate the responses.  I'm going to continue to ramble on here, so feel free to poke holes in my thinking...

I re-read all three stories within the past month (Hush, For Tomorrow, and Unchained).  There are undoubtedly other factors involved, but it's  quite amazing to me how much impact the story has on each arc's OA value especially when I believe two of those stories, Hush and For Tomorrow, are very similar in quality of work (artistically).  

Using the OA community's general rule of what constitutes a more desirable page (ie, costumed action vs. talking heads, splashes vs. panels, etc) I could acquire a page from For Tomorrow for about half of a comparable (or even less) Hush page; and purchase Unchained for even less.  It's likely my own short-comings within the OA space, but this is something I'm having a difficult time absorbing/processing.  I suppose I should just look at the silver lining and feel good about potentially spending less on work that I feel is on par with Hush.  But the appeal of owning a Hush page is quite real and is hard to ignore, even for a Superman fan such as myself.

I dig "under-grails". Might employ that.  Also like cornerstone, though. 

18 hours ago, awayne83 said:

I get the feeling sometimes though, that this is sort of an elite community, and you have to be in the know to be in top of things.

Just going from my own experience as a new art collector, I've felt the same way.  Didn't take long to come to that conclusion either, but I'm sure we're not the only ones who experienced it coming in.  I recently posted some thoughts about coming into the OA market and a few board members reached out, which felt good.  It definitely helps to have friends in this sphere, even if they're virtual friends.  If you ever want to chat, or vent, please feel welcome to send me PM.  Happy to help in whatever limited ways I could offer.  

Would anyone here offer to comment on Jim Lee's various Superman art?  I know what I like, but am relatively new on the OA circuit and would appreciate some context from a holistic perspective.  "For Tomorrow" seems to be regarded as one of his artistic high points, but "Unchained" is beautiful also and appears to have a lower entry point.  I suppose I'm trying to balance several factors that will guide my decision on which to pursue and it's helpful to hear different views (especially from veterans).  

Happy to take responses here, via PM, or over the phone if anyone is so inclined.  I'm a relatively nice person.  

That is great!  I love Jock and would love a page from Black Mirror.  Love the artistic, "painter quality" of his work.  Big fan.  Congrats!

4 minutes ago, fsumavila said:

what did the Hush page end at?

 

$9,560.  After a few minutes to recollect, I'm not sure my initial reaction of "yikes" is appropriate due to the final number, but I was bidding on it and you know...emotions and all. 

2 hours ago, Hekla said:

Comiclink has to feel good. On the day of the Summer HA auction, the biggest CGC OA discussion is about an auction that doesn't start for another 19 days.

 

... or this is a good diversion tactic by some board members to keep attention away from the current auction

Didn't distract from what I wanted.  Hush page for $10K.  Yowza.  Uh, guess I'll find another Lee story to purchase from or something.  

2 minutes ago, comix4fun said:

Fist fight ensuing for the first Hush page.

No.  Joke.  Yikes.

@Panelfan1 This was a custom order.  

After a long while researching, note-taking, and feverish twiddling my my thumbs, I finally decided to make a purchase.  Starting slow at first with this piece as I wanted to get some OA in hand and feel it out.  I found it on Black Line Fever's site and aside from the "we only take checks" thing the process was pretty flawless.  I'm a big Starlin fan, so am happy that my first piece is by him even if I've never read this particular series.  I also like that it features Darkseid who was an inspiration for Thanos, so it comes around full circle in a way.  Decided to have it framed as it's art and should be looked at in my opinion.  I will likely frame most of the pieces I acquire, but you never know.  The frame is from Michael's and I'm actually really surprised by the quality...all archival materials and they tell me that the glass has some kind of acrylic infused or laid over top to prevent damaging the artwork should it fall off the wall.  Pretty neat.  

53 minutes ago, BCarter27 said:

And if you've traded/resold your way to a grail piece while on a budget, you worked a lot harder for it than the so-called "true collector" who just wrote the check.

There certainly is something super satisfying in working hard to achieve a goal.  Seems part and parcel to America, makes one feel big and strong.  That said, I'd also assume that lots (not all, but lots) of people worked hard to attain a position in life to "just write a check".  I bet they feel pretty good in their achievements too.

1 minute ago, darkstar said:

Actually its much easier than this. You don't even need a website. Just make sure your store shows up on google search results. Make sure the address and hours are correct. And make sure you have a couple of pictures showing the interior of your store that gives inquiring minds a good idea of what you carry. That is all you need.  

You'd think it's easy, and obvious, but I run into this all the time.  Quite irksome and maybe a little lazy, but who knows with people.  Could be anything.

1 hour ago, drfate said:

A new addition to my CAF Gallery...HULK SMASH!!!

http://www.comicartfans.com/gallerypiece.asp?piece=1407957

Very cool.  Since looking into OA, I've a new appreciation for Bagley.  I've always liked his stuff.  I've also noticed that when you strip away the color and see the core a lot of artists are speaking to me in new ways...case in point, Bagley.  

2 hours ago, rocket1312 said:

It's crazy how much your experience/situation mirrors mine.  I'm 37 and started in on all of this about 2.5 years ago.  Our tastes seem to have a lot of overlap and I also don't really know anyone else who's into this stuff.  The only difference seems to be that I was much quicker to jump into actually buying art.  You're smart to do your research and to be cautious, but my experience over the last year+ is that a lot of the art (especially early 90's) that I'm interested is quickly becoming unaffordable (to me).  That's not to say it's wise to get caught up in the bull market and wildly overpay out of fear, but I'm starting to realize that maybe I'm better off overpaying a little now for the stuff I know I really want while prices are still within my budget's stratosphere, rather than finding a deal down the road on something that doesn't completely scratch my itch.  Obviously your own budget and priorities will have a lot to say on the matter.

I've never dealt with Anthony Snyder before, so I can't comment on him specifically, but I will say that I have been somewhat turned off by the way some dealers/reps communicate in this hobby as well.  While the vast majority of my experiences so far with collectors, artists, dealers, and reps have been positive, there is an "exclusive club" sort of vibe that inevitably hovers over the comic art world.  It can be intimidating and I've definitely found there to be a learning curve when it comes to knowing how to communicate with certain key players.  I can sympathize with dealers in particular who are likely being bombarded with questions/requests on a daily basis and need to be able to weed out the looky loos almost immediately so that they are able to devote time to known quantities, but I also know it can be devastating to a new collector trying to find their way to be given what feels like a cold shoulder.  I'm not much of a networker, so I know I'm never going to be on the "inside" with any of these people, but I've generally found that as long as you're direct and confident (without being overbearing), willing to put your money where your mouth is and don't take any of it too personally, you'll be fine. 

Whenever I lament about a lack of close friends in the comic world I always laugh at myself and think about Paul Rudd in "I Love You, Man".  Great film and very apropos here.  

The value question is an interesting one.  I'm assuming here, but I'd wager you didn't grow up with much exposure to Kirby or any of the other early titans, right?  So, guys who are 20+ years our senior...who are they going to sell to?  I'm also pretty certain that you and I absolutely have an appreciation for Kirby et al., but here is where nostalgia kicks in...it's just not my bag.  Counter to that, who am I going to sell to when I'm ready?  Will there be a strong market?  I certainly hope so for all the above.  

All this aside, I'd like to think that whatever I buy I will be mentally prepared to take a loss primarily because I love it.  Insert the old cliche, buy what you love and you'll always be happy.  But, to a degree that doesn't make much sense especially if I'm "investing" $2,000+ into a piece of comic book art.  And as I continue to grow professionally, that dollar figure I'm ready to spend will go up.  I've already spent several times that on individual comic books.

And I really didn’t mean to drag Mr. Snyder’s name into it, at second thought I should have left names out of it.  Again, I’m sure he receives many inquiries like mine.  In fact, I tried to preface my communication to him…something like “I’m sure you receive these questions a lot but can you please help me find…”  But it does speak to an issue of entrance into the hobby.  Cheers

8 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said:

This. I've been doing this for about a year, and finally went to C2E2 to see all the Big Boy dealers and art there. I eventually bought a piece, but I did get the impression that the art dealers were almost like car salesman in some respects. They are not like your friendly neighborhood comic shop owner, who wants to talk comics and stuff. They are more interested in pumping up a piece and selling it to you. I get that this is how they make their living, but it was a bit offputting. I guess if you establish a longer term relationship with them as a reliable buyer, they may change their attitude. But, its hard for newbies. 

Which makes very little sense to me because one of the themes I kept hearing in Felix's podcasts (aside from discussing Dark Knight) was "where is the new blood" or some form of "where is the new blood coming from" to sustain/grow the hobby.  And this is coming from stalwarts of the hobby who are rightly concerned that Gen Xers like myself won't get in.  So, here I am an affluent guy in his 30s looking to invest thousands of dollars into this hobby and I'm already disinclined.  But at the same time, I'm not too surprised.  It is a close community at certain levels.  Maybe Felix should get a group of guys like us on his podcast to discuss from our perspective.

@ O.  Thanks!  I will certainly take you up on that offer.  BTW, I think I've mentioned this before but I really enjoy your column.  Requisite reading for me, very informative.

Thank you all for the thoughtful replies.  If I'm being brutally honest with myself I believe my biggest issue is that aside from this board/computer screen I don't have any other outlets to discuss this stuff.  And so much gets lost in translation within these pixels.  None of my close friends are interested in this space (comic books/art).  And I think a lot of my concerns could be sorted out if I had someone to get a drink with who understands and shares love of this hobby.  That makes me sound lame, but none of my close friends share this interest, it's just how it is.

So I'll just put this out there and see what reaction it may elicit…

I'm 38 and grew up when Jim Lee and company were just about the coolest thing ever to a 12-year old.  And Infinity Gauntlet blew my mind.  I love Jim Starlin's cosmic stories (Warlock/Thanos) to death.  But Superman is still my champion.  I love Daredevil and would love to own something from both David Mazzucchelli and Alex Maleev's work on the title.  Ron Lim's Silver Surfer is the greatest.  There are many more characters and stories I enjoy, but those are the biggies in my world.

Now to the artwork I've looked at purchasing.  I lost at auction on a piece from SS #103 by Tom Morgan.  Being picky as I am, what kept me from going harder at it was the artist's signature placement.  Borderline ruined the page, in my opinion.  

I lost at Heritage’s last auction on a tremendous page from Infinity Gauntlet that featured Warlock/SS/Thanos.  I did my best research and put in what I thought was a strong bid only to lose by $1,000.  I wasn’t available to bid live, such is life I suppose.

Albert Moy has a nice example of Jim Lee's work on Superman Unchained (Issue #6, page 18).  It's $2K and has a great half splash of the protagonist giving the business to Wraith.  Batman is also on the page.  Aesthetically, I think it's great and I might be in the minority here but I really dig the story.

Anthony Snyder has a couple pages I've looked at.  One from Infinity War (Issue #6, page 40).  It's the one of Thanos talking to himself in the cornfield at the end of the story.  I like this page more from a character perspective.  Plus, there’s actual text on the work!  I realize he represents Maleev, but when I inquired about said work I was not impressed with the reply.  I would think that a representative would approach their business in a different way...you know, to produce a sale.  I don’t mean to be snarky/rude, maybe there was a legit reason for the curt reply.  Just doesn’t lend itself to me feeling good about moving forward with a purchase.

Romitaman has a pretty interesting piece from a historical perspective, being Mignola’s early work on Daredevil.  I like the chiaroscuro effect very much.

More budget friendly pieces abound…some on Anthony’s site (Trinity Bagley art); Felix’s site (Black Road); and Black Line Fever has a neat Starlin page from Death of New Gods.  Never read that though.

Thanks for indulging the lengthy post and happy Friday. 

I think it's very interesting that in the six weeks or so that I've been seriously shopping for my first piece of OA (after around a year of slow research) I have basically not even thought about comic books.  I've been binge listening to Felix's podcasts in the car and at my desk and have to say I'm a little freaked out by how invested I've become without even owning a page yet.  I've heard/read about this phenomenon a few times, but didn't think it'd happen to me because I love my books and I love the hunt, but there's some kind of magic elixir that has me under a spell.  I'm still hesitating pulling the trigger mainly because I'm still not sure what the hell I want.  There's a lot of good stuff available, but I don't want to buy to just buy.  I want focus and purpose.  I'm also still fumbling around the context that comes with these pages.  I may see a page that, from an artistic sense, presents very well but I find myself compelled to research the story to find out about the page and greater story arc if I'm not familiar.  This is not an issue I've faced to such a degree with my fine art endeavors.  

Pretty sure this is nothing new to most of you, but I find the need to vent somewhere.  I almost started a journal to document what is looking more and more like a transition from books to art.  What the hell?

9 hours ago, stinkininkin said:

At least you've listened to the best one.  

Scott

I'll tell you as someone who's trying to find their way into this hobby, those podcasts have been practically a godsend.  I found them about two weeks ago and have just a few left to get through.  I really appreciate your perspective of looking at these pieces as an artist.  That really resonates with me for a list of reasons I won't bother to include here.  Funny thing is that I'm actually considering two pieces that you've worked on as my first purchase.  And here I am interacting with you on this board.  It's just really cool and surreal, you know?  Cheers.

http://www.albertmoy.com/SaleAll.asp

Thank you, everyone.  Alas last night was not meant to be, but it was instructive nonetheless.  I'm not too heartbroken with the loss, and look at it as an opportunity to acquire something better.  Lemonade from lemons, as they say.  If you're curious, I was after the Surfer piece by Tom Morgan.  Per my "blueprint" I thought it a very nice Surfer moment, indicative of the character.  Plus it was plain cool.  I wasn't a fan of the signature placement though, which is probably why I didn't chase ti harder.  I wasn't too far off in my estimate and my bid held on til the last few minutes.  I was proud of myself for sticking to my guns and not upping the bid.

Now looking at a few pieces on some of the bigger dealers sites...and away we go

"Well, Nuke's scared because his eyelids are jammed and his old man's here.  We need a live...is it a live rooster?  We need a live rooster to take the curse off Jose's glove and nobody seems to know what to get Millie or Jimmy for their wedding present.  We're dealing with a lot of sh@t."