grapeape

3 hours ago, Bronty said:

No idea how you or any particular person would act but most people waiting for that day will be scared poopless by it   .   If the market tanked tomorrow and the shine came off the apple a lot of people would suddenly see the art as a little less special, and they’d suddenly have a few more real world expenses, and suddenly be afraid that things are going to fall further , or tell themselves they are going to be smart to wait for apocalypse 2 because apocalypse 1 left too much value.   

Whats the right time to buy?  When things fall 10% ?  20? 30? 40? There’s no clarity about what happens next at any of those points.   IMO some people who say ‘I’d buy more if it was cheaper’ are in fact justifying their current purchases to themselves rather than making any kind of analysis of what they’d really do if the market took a poop.   

Ie it’s easy to say that on a surface level but I think we underestimate how much of a bummer it would be mentally if the market deflated.    Whether we consciously admit it or not, rising prices keeps us interested to some degree

My window was 1996-2004. I bought at prices i'm comfortable with. With very few exceptions I won't get caught buying over FMV today. I don't want the market to collapse. Accept a cooling period and some correction. Sure? There's enough for everybody to enjoy. Bronty you always make thoughtful points. There's tons of information out there and on the boards. It's up to us to make use of the correct information.

5 hours ago, Twanj said:

I have to agree with mistake too. They'd never sell for $2950 what HA sold for $2270 in 2016.

There's a number of other Kirby / Alcala (attributed) stuff that was sold there too.

https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-alfredo-alcala-attributed-thor-animation-cartoon-concept-illustration-original-art-ruby-spears-/a/7124-92143.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Thanks Twanj

3 hours ago, zhamlau said:

!!!! But I must save all my money for  Brien Taylor! Can’t be diverting those funds.

I joke but I bought dozens of Pete Alonso 2016 Bowman Chrome auto cards last year after seeing him in the Minor League All Star Game last year.  His raw base auto Bowman’s were going off at 20 dollars a pop. I even bought the full color spectrum in psa 10 and BGS 9.5. Been selling some off but here was my set at its height this April. 

Freaking love Pete Alonso. Still waiting for his home run to come down in Minnesota. Go Mets!!

6 hours ago, vodou said:

If this one eluded your younger self, booking for $8 at issue:

fear not, eBay to the rescue:

How many do you need?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-Donruss-GREGG-JEFFERIES-RC-50-CARD-LOT-ONCE-A-HIGHLY-TOUTED-PROSPECT/183785744972?hash=item2aca7bea4c:g:ii8AAOSwAWNcv6Ij

I'm a huge Mets fans. Love Greg Jefferies. Wow look how many cards lol.

On 7/24/2019 at 8:31 AM, RICKYBOBBY said:

I emailed comic connect to inquire about this piece and after 1 email exchange I requested to purchase the piece. They responded the piece is actually 5k and I can go on their website and make an offer. I told them that’s a nice way to get rid of a customer 👍🏽

RB

 

RickyBobby I truly understand why you are chapped. I saw this on Friday at $5000 and some have suggested seeing the same price on preview night. I liked it too however I thought for sure it was inked by someone other than Kirby. A rep said he believed it was all Kirby and I let it be. Glen Gold who I trust on Kirby and on original art in general says Alcala worked on the piece. I'm with you so sorry you had your heart set at that price. I truly believe it was an error.

Did you pick up anything cool you want to share?

On 7/24/2019 at 1:58 PM, Ironmandrd said:

So that picture is before they realized their mistake and then put a $5k sticker on it?

I think that's what took place and I feel sorry for Ricky. I hear it was 5k on preview night and I saw the page on Friday afternoon listed at 5k.

On 7/24/2019 at 5:33 PM, comix4fun said:

Could be. Possible they changed the price during Preview Night...since Preview "night" actually runs from about 10am to the evening.

When I walked by I was sure it said $5k and that was towards the 5-6pm portion of preview night. I could be wrong but the price for a piece that no one could really identify where it was used, etc. was excessive enough to leave a memory-mark on me. That's why I thought maybe that pic was from the Torpedo show the previous weekend. 

I took my pic at about 4:30 on Friday at SDCC. The 5k sticker was on the display.

15 minutes ago, zhamlau said:

You know what’s sad. I keep finding myself thinking that if the comic art market collapsing and prices drop 60-70% like predicted. I’d go on a huge buying spree and pick up art I either sold off years ago or never had and always wanted. 

What a beautiful way to look at this possibility. 

1 hour ago, MR SigS said:

I was there when this happened-  He was telling the story behind this print I was buying.

I wondered if you were able to get it anyway. 

 Hey I hope didn't spoil the moment. Great piece of art. I swear I was trying to be unobtrusive and discreet. The "bodyguards" reaction made it chaos for 4 seconds. I'm glad you enjoyed the show.

4 hours ago, vodou said:

Comic art, by definition, being a luxury versus commodity marketplace means that the high margin:low volume sales model must prevail. As Bronty correctly states, the supply of art bought (or acquired as consignment) with a 1990s and earlier cost basis is diminishing very rapidly now. Why? Because even the deepest black hole collections are now being plumbed, or at least are preparing to be, at HA, CLink, and Metropolis (ComicConnect). Oh, and Hake's (lol). This means that what persisted for years, so-called 'fair' pricing and reasonable expected growth over time, was actually a market operating in exception to the sales model. Or more accurately, a few of us (but ever more and more over time) were taking advantage of information arbitrage as the hobby was expanding into the online age. Some of us (me) saw that arbitrage disappearing as early as late oughts and backed away from ongoing speculation. The margins (reward) just weren't there anymore to justify taking on new risk. Notably this is also when the bigger names in the professional dealer community started taking more consignments on, dealing less out their own wholly-owned inventory, and even stepped up consigning to auction themselves (some using certain unsavory methods to make sure nothing sold too cheap though). Some older and new entrants to professional dealing also entered the 'repping' end of things, which is just taking on consignments from artists (primary sales at 'zero cost basis' floor) instead of other collectors (non-primary with cost basis floor).

We're now at least a decade into this. And the overall situation is visibly threadbare. I know some of you still seem to flip things profitably in comic art. I'm happy for you, but not with my money

Dealing luxury really does result in high margins and low volume, as a rule. And, if you're a very active buyer that insists on holding out for 'that one right guy' most of the time: inventory backlog on a climbing curve. Like Anthony's is. If he dropped his prices in half, I think half his inventory would sell in three months. But I don't think he can do that, cover his cost basis and his operating expenses and put enough in his pocket at the end to make it all worth it. That's the rub. Again, not for me, and not for over a decade.

Intelligent assessment of reality. In one way or another we members are saying the same thing. I think.....

when I buy I want a great deal

when I sell I don’t want to lose money. Inherently these are luxury items as you say and they come with the trappings of potential risk.

—there are pieces bought to flip or saved for permanent NFS collection 

—we want the market to stay healthy

•••the chat board is great

••¥ this is all good info with shared experiences good and bad. If an individual or dealer has what I want, I’m going to find a way to get it done. Even if I have to hold my nose.

But it has to be for a grail. The best art that I have was obtained from 1996-2004.

Folks can put any price they want. They can “take this one home” if not motivated to deal and sell.

We collectors reserve the right to exercise our common sense to not chase. Better to search on and earn the next great thing.

5 hours ago, Bronty said:

Grapeape:   I think that’s just a sign of dealers having less and less inventory that they bought when they had access to the artists or while prices were still cheap.   As more and more of their inventory is bought at FMV at auction, double+ FMV asks become more and more the norm.  Not to say that anyone will pay that necessarily but they are going to be more choosy about which sales they take because they have more sunk into it.    When they say “I’ll happily take it home” what they are saying is “I’d rather take it home than get no return. I’ll wait for the perfect buyer.”

Very good point. The issue of trade is something we haven’t factored in. Some of these bloated prices could be protection against being locked into a low trade value. Having a crazy valuation or undisclosed price gives you room to “come down” or neutralize valuation items being offered in trade  to get a deal done.

40 minutes ago, batman_fan said:

More expensive OA has a floor price where it will never sell below.  Just an example.  HA has several Peanuts Dailies up for auction right now.  I have no strong interest in any of them, although some are pretty nice and I wouldn’t be upset with them in my collection.  With that said, if they are at a price below my threshold, I will bid on them until they are over my threshold even though I am not highly interested in them just because I see it as a good price for a piece that I will hold for many years.  I do not think I am alone in doing this.

Very solid point. I do agree this is an approach some collectors are using.

1 hour ago, RICKYBOBBY said:

I emailed comic connect to inquire about this piece and after 1 email exchange I requested to purchase the piece. They responded the piece is actually 5k and I can go on their website and make an offer. I told them that’s a nice way to get rid of a customer 👍🏽

RB

 

This had a $5000 sticker at the Con. They should honor that no? I took it as a fixed price item when I looked at it in person.

On 7/18/2019 at 12:19 AM, delekkerste said:

One of my favorite covers! 

16 hours ago, Rick2you2 said:

I was wondering if the pricing at SDCC seemed specially priced high for the con, or reflects a market disconnect generally? Are perhaps dealers are unwilling to lower their prices because it will reduce the value of their inventory, perhaps to avoid a problem with loan security?  

Some dealers are choking this market by hoarding and playing no listed price games. Best way to buy is to make a deal privately (but factor market data that is out there) or auction with a company that respects you. You have to push...make HA or any other auctioneer earn their commission when you're selling. When you buy don't spend F U money unless it's for your private collection.

I saw mountains of art with no prices. Sad. Very few pieces deserve the inquire B S. Used to be that would be for something extraordinary like the ASM 299 cover mentioned in the thread. Now it's for interior pages with moderate content on the page?

Let the market work please dealers. Mike B is one of the best because he always lists prices. Now there are times where Mike leaves meat on the bone for the buyer and there are times where he eats all the left overs. His model is sound however as collectors paying attention can gauge what Mike is doing price wise and over time can make a little bit if they want/have to sell. Mike influences the market but he also keeps art moving through the pipeline. It's good for market health.

Then there are those that choke the market...I won't name the dealer but a splash page listed for 24k on his site a few years back never sold. I was surprised to see it at the Con because he had taken it down from the site. How much? I asked.  85k was the dead pan response.

So there are a few who play a game: buy it now or get punished down the road. They simply have a crazed notion that the piece they have listed and unsold for years is "flying up in price." They continue to move the price up. I say let the market decide on some of this inventory so we can have a healthy collector market into the  future. It's bottle necking the inventory. We're going to wind up with a ton of over priced material that will crash down on most collectors. Those that came in late will have to figure out how they were left holding the bag. It's like buying a $300k house in Southern California for $600k because that's what everybody is asking. Eventually it's a long way down and should you have to sell,,,,,ouch.

3 hours ago, igotnogame said:

Wasn't able to attend this year unfortunately, but it didn't stop me from being able to complete a collecting goal of getting Dave McKean to do portraits of the Endless.  Despair was the last one I needed and had him revisit Delerium as well.  Couldn't be happier with the results.  Hopefully will be back in 2020 if I can land a pass.

Thanks to everyone who posted updates.

Grotesque Immense discarded isolated disturbed...........hypnotic.....dark........lovely

It's true. Banks give out minimum ten page disclosures and you're not protected like you think you are. This was a part of my line of work. You'd be amazed how many people would toss the contract agreement aside. Natural disasters? Wrong box drilled? 

Now before you pull your art portfolio out of your large size SDB and put it under your mattress, take heart. Read your contract lease agreement from your bank. What's covered and how much? Do you have insurance if something goes wrong?

£7,026 of £10,000 goal

As you all may or may not be aware, our wonderful friend and artist Conny Valentina has recently gone through a horrendous house fire where she lost 2 of her beloved pet cats and $500,000 (her entire life's collection) worth of art, plus any commissions she was working on, which she has no way of refunding. 
 

3 minutes ago, exitmusicblue said:

Good to "see" the syndicate... errr, coiterie... errr, cabal lookin' chill and happy.

What happens in Vegas usually stays in Vegas, with the exception of that photo of the Blue Man group.

7 hours ago, KirbyJack said:

GrapeApe, love the Thing pin-up!

Not so sure about the Thor piece, tho. Great stuff, though! I went to the con in 2010, and saw more OA than I have before or since, combined! Have fun!

Kirby and Alacala! Thanks Glen Gold for the info.

5 hours ago, glendgold said:

 

Very nice piece, and inked by Alcala (as per when it sold at HA in 2016 along with a bunch of other Kirby/Alcala animation pieces).

Thanks for confirming G...I knew it wasn't all Kirby from the art. Thanks to you I know who else did some work.

9 hours ago, MagnusX said:

I wonder why?
he drew the character in the past
is not like he is not familiar with it...

Yeah it just seemed like he was "over" it. Triumph and Torment one of my all time favorite stories(and art). I respect him still and maybe I'll try again should we meet again.

2 hours ago, Bird said:

When Albert Moy opened Timm's commission list last month in advance of SDCC I jumped on it immediately and asked for Clea. I got denied! I had been waiting some time to get a shot at Timm and am sad that is didn't happen. For the $1800 pricetag I guess I could have flown out to SDCC and begged Bruce for it instead!

I'm sorry you didn't get what you wanted. Mike Mignola was my heart break. I asked for Dr. Doom at the Wonder Con a few years back. He wouldn't budge. I asked him to name his price. It was dead. No excuses. he just wouldn't do it.