MAY1979

On 9/11/2024 at 7:24 PM, joeypost said:

TMNT 1

I was thinking the exact same thing. The question is; are they considered Superhero's ?

On 9/11/2024 at 6:23 PM, themoonwasblue said:

I'm sure there's a reason that I'm not thinking of, but why does a reholdering require opening the inner well?

 

due to the banana bend epidemic that have rendered most 2024 Modern 9.8's  .2 - .4 lower

Last on eBay assuming legit, which u cant do, was 8k even. Not looking so good for those who spent 15k,16k or more. Especially if they are oblivious to slabgate.

On 9/11/2024 at 1:03 PM, southern cross said:

What's this PC,  for the personal collection?

Do collectors have a non personal collection they're keeping.

My "PC" Collection starts at the front door of my condo and ends by the glass sliding door of the deck. (The dog owns everything on the deck as hers)

I've a buddy who collects trading cards. He is not a dealer or seller yet he refers to his collection as "PC"

As the kids say; he's so Mid and what he says is cringe

On 9/11/2024 at 10:40 AM, ajcomics said:

At most of the cons I've been to lately, it doesn't even make sense to start negotiations since most of the books are significantly over priced. Even suggesting a FMV price will most likely offend the seller and create an awkward moment. In those situations, I just keep walking. 

If I can offend a comic book seller then thats even better than getting the discount!

There are cultures where paying the advertised price is considered an insult. To not haggle is offensive behavior.

With collectibles its part of the fun.

So of the best recent memories I have at Cons are haggling with Anthony. Believe you me he doesn't need the money either way, but he like many dealers loves the game. Not that DeeDee boooggggg Boston dealer however best to just walk on by that Vile truthless grump.

Bottom line; Anyone who never haggles over a Comic Book IMHO is a rube

Sometimes the Tattooz was never inserted.  My opinion; as long as insert itself is intact and no evidence of tampering then the tattoo/sticker itself should have no bearing.

On 9/10/2024 at 5:59 PM, BlowUpTheMoon said:

Just got back three books from 1973.  Two out of three had a curve to the books.  

Tried to take pictures but couldn't do them justice.  So, I put two piles of eight slabs down on the scanner and put the two affected slabs (spine down) in between the piles of eight slabs.  I used the two piles of eight slabs to keep the two affected slabs from moving while being scanned.

Both books start at the top (near the label) with the inner well against the front of the slabs, and the bottom of the book (inner well) against the back of the slab.

One of the two books exhibits two "crunches" which I could not adequately capture on camera. 

If that makes any sense. 

 

yes it does make sense.

based on the pics the saddest part is those are less damaged than most. I'd crack them out before damage occurs. Regardless of what CGC's and one LONE poster to this thread message is, I'd not take chances; IMHO if they are 9.6 or 9.8's without newly introduced color breaking damage I'd crack them out and next year take Robert Plant's advice:

On 9/10/2024 at 12:08 PM, Wintersgate said:

Thanks. Took me two years to find a copy that I liked for my run.  Top Pop too.  Now it just makes my eye twitch

Makes me see red, as in the color of the next label/flip my next Comic Book sub will have.

On 9/10/2024 at 7:28 AM, mikenyc said:

Taking detailed photos of every book before being submitted has clearly become a necessity.

until they start claiming the before photo's are doctored or obscured.  If you do not think they will then clearly you do not understand whom you are truly dealing with. As proven by their statements, they will say and do anything to protect every cent of their bottom line.

On 9/9/2024 at 8:38 PM, 0r0d said:

Here are the results of my conversation with CGC customer service:

I sent them photos of 3 damaged books (all 9.8 from prescreen, all went in with ZERO spine damage).  The worst one now has a color-break and bend that measures 1/4".  But, all came back bent and all had spine damage.

First response from CGC: The told me the following:

There you go, they dont claim to have even seen ANY impact to the condition of books.

According to CGC, the color-breaking tick that measures 1/4" is "acceptable" for a 9.8.

I'm sure if I crack it and send it back in, it will get a 9.8 again.  Right?  Right???

and

Or, more like "there is no guarantee that the grade will stay the same".

I offered them 2 options that would be acceptable to me.  1) Press and re-holder the books at their expense and guarantee that the grade will not change.  and 2) I send them the books and they refund me their replacement cost FMV (for 9.8s) in exchange.   I think both are reasonable.  For #1, the books have clearly had zero damage done to the slabs after they left their facility.  The only damage is inside the slabs.  So if they graded them a 9.8 they should still be a 9.8, especially after pressing.  Any damage that would make them not a 9.8 is entirely their fault.  And #2 is also reasonable since I'd just like the value of the comic they sent me and I'm sending back.

Their reply:

They asked for images of the books prior to being sent in.  I dont have such images.  Also...

So I can pay... again... to have them graded, and possibly damaged again.

and finally:

So I can resubmit for ME, even thought the spine damage will not qualify as ME and they have already said that a bent inner well is "normal" and "acceptable".  And of course once they reject the ME I will have to pay shipping both ways.  

There you go, customer service as its finest.  I can either suck it up and accept that I paid CGC to grade/slab my books and now they're damaged, or I can send them in to maybe get even more damaged and maybe, just maybe they can press them and keep the same grade... but I have to pay for it.

No offer to even refund the grading fees, or acknowledgement that there's any problem.  In fact, they claim that the books with ticks and bends (in one case 1/4" deep) are acceptable in a 9.8.  And, while I'm not an expert grader, I think that's just total B.S.  If I send that book in I'd expect maybe a 9.4 or 9.6 at highest.

And so now I really have nothing I can do except accept that I spent money and the result is some of my books are damaged, and I have to crack and press them myself to TRY to get them back into their original condition.  And then... I'm not sure what else.  Start using another grading service?  Why would I use CGC again when they wont even make up for their mistakes or even do the bare minimum of offering to refund the grading fees the few books they damaged? 

I just hope that this serves as a warning to others.  Submit books are your own risk.  If they come back damaged, you're on your own.

Attached photos of 1/4" spine tick/bend for reference.

The Santa Ana winds can't blow east quickly enough for me. 

BTW: Their app scans the bar codes on the flips (their vernacular, which is cooler to say than labels) making registry input as easy as can be.

 

On 9/8/2024 at 10:38 PM, Collect Stuff said:

Perhaps they all are

On 9/8/2024 at 9:45 PM, LordRahl said:

A lot of people aren't on social media. The examples posted here of the books with obvious spine stress and creases in 9.8 books that are readily obvious is a small percentage of all of the bent books. The vast majority are only slightly bent and if you don't know to look for it, you most likely won't see it. All of that is a long winded answer of... I think it's sheer ignorance of there being a problem for a lot of people. Word is getting out but it's fresh enough that I don't think a large percentage is aware yet. Then there are also the deniers and the outright dishonest mixed in as well, but I believe that's a small percentage relative to the folks that just don't know there is a problem... yet.

YEP!

On 9/8/2024 at 5:51 PM, 0r0d said:

 

TRUTH!

On 9/8/2024 at 6:44 PM, Stefan_W said:

Holy click bait titles, Batman. 

I keep a deny list on my router to prevent playing of videos (not a domain block) on for sites like youtube and others  etc... However I'm strongly thinking of temporarily disabling as that title is true. 

We all get your OPINION however I have had books with new color breaking damage introduced by the banana bends.  At least be a true scientist and be open to the possibility that your "data" is not 100% accurate. 

On 9/8/2024 at 1:43 PM, Stuk said:

I cannot tell from the search string, but those numbers, ideally, should exclude 1) vintage (for the most part), 2) books that are below 9.4 (maybe? because the look or grade is barely if at all affected?), 3) books that are "newly" slabbed but still before mid 2023 (?), and 4) any books, modern or otherwise, that simply are not bowed (there apparently are some). Not knocking the point, just suggesting a refinement.

Your are technically correct!  I will update my original comment when CGC replaces my 9.8 1/1's with true  9.8's of those same books, or remunerates me for the books + emotional distress.   My guess is that occurs half past never.

On 9/8/2024 at 1:23 PM, WeR138 said:

OK. This helps me to understand where you are coming from with that statement.  

I'm sorry that you have had such a negative experience with dealers/sellers/flippers.

I have met quite a few great ones. Some on these boards, some in my local community.  They do exist.

I count only those met in person or dealt with one-on-one and that includes online sellers.  I will say my dealings, especially when there were issues with the book or slab, with MCS have been 100% excellent. However that is a business entity in my mind not an individual.

I do want to issue a Correction! I also feel very bad for forgetting him may he RIP, from the Mid 90s-early 2000's a small local con and via his self hosted "garage sales" I dealt a lot with a part time seller named Rino. He was honest and overtly fair.  Him and his wife were truly great people. He also had one of those great voices likley aided by his chain smoking which sadly did him in (found out last year he passed away in 2014).  RIP RINO and my apologies for not giving you your due.

I've posted a handful of times about Rino here is a link; https://boards.cgccomics.com/search/?&q=rino&quick=1&author=may1979&search_and_or=and&sortby=relevancy

On 9/8/2024 at 12:53 PM, WeR138 said:

So they have the audacity to not be shady? Are you wanting BANANAGATE in the title? Help me out here. I am truly trying to follow what you are saying.

I dealt and known many comic dealers/sellers/flippers/speculators for 40 years, none of them have anywhere near that level of honesty. Wish I did know some that are, but I don't. I've heard they exist and while I'm sure that's plausible, again I've never met a single one who even borders on being honest.

Thus I ask again is it being oblivious? Sheer Ignorance?  Cognitive Dissonance?  or some combination thereof that these eBay sellers proudly exclaim "Newly Graded" or "New Slab" as if that is a positive thing.

P.S. Those involved with buying comics I've met who are honest, are limited to collectors only

On 9/8/2024 at 10:36 AM, MAY1979 said:

Near 800 Slabs on eBay in which the seller smugly exclaims "Newly Graded"

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cgc+newly+graded&_sacat=0&_odkw=ms+marvel+23+cgc+9.8&_osacat=0

~1400 in which Seller proudly touts "New Slab"

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cgc+"new+slab"&_sacat=0&_odkw=cgc+newly+graded&_osacat=0

 

Given their nature most who sell comics would obscure as much as possible they are 2024 slabs.  For these sellers is it: Simply oblivious? Sheer Ignorance?  Cognitive Dissonance? 

 

On 9/8/2024 at 11:33 AM, WeR138 said:

I'm not following. Looked at quite a few of these and they all had the cert.# clearly visible in the pictures? Didn't check to see if they had it listed in the item description. What type of obscuring are we talking about?

You would think Sellers given their nature would not advertise the slabs are new and do whatever they can to draw attention away from that. Instead they boldly state they are newly graded.

Near 800 Slabs on eBay in which the seller smugly exclaims "Newly Graded"

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cgc+newly+graded&_sacat=0&_odkw=ms+marvel+23+cgc+9.8&_osacat=0

~1400 in which Seller proudly touts "New Slab"

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=cgc+"new+slab"&_sacat=0&_odkw=cgc+newly+graded&_osacat=0

Given their nature most who sell comics would obscure as much as possible they are 2024 slabs.  For these sellers is it: Simply oblivious? Sheer Ignorance?  Cognitive Dissonance? 

On 9/7/2024 at 3:35 PM, Stuk said:

This is great info to see. Thanks so much. Can anyone take a crack at explaining why almost every month there is either a massive (like 50k) dip or rise? The drop from 2/2024 to 3/2024 makes obvious sense (reholder-gate) but what explains 8/2023 to 9/2023 and 10/2023 to 11/2023 etc.? As for as the impact of bend-gate, I think we have to wait a month.  Remember that this data doesn't track submissions, it tracks census addition, so the census data in any month is for submissions from a month or two earlier. The numbers for September to October 2024 -- showing submissions in July and August when bend-gate started to really become known-- should be interesting.

Exactly. Near end of the year I think the data will paint a better picture.

Dips and swings can also be attributed to delayed updates and Holidays.

On 9/7/2024 at 11:38 AM, Stefan_W said:

The tough part about interpreting this trend is it also corresponds to a drop in the comic market after the comic boom. As prices drop fewer books are worth submitting and fewer books are submitted. 

Submission numbers will get lower. Blips and standard deviations aside, the bottom will never be reached and ever-heading down as more and more overall hobby attrition and shinkage continues.  Then factor in the Cali folks plausibly siphoning of a noticeable chunk of business due to this continued banana bending debacle, including CGC washing their hands of it with a metaphorical flip of the bird response.

My response to the statement is best said by Flatt and Scuggs; "California's The Place I Oughta Be"

Or by Robert Plant ;  "I'm goin' to California with an aching in my heart"

On 9/6/2024 at 12:50 AM, LordRahl said:

While everything you say is perfectly logical, the one thing that I don't get is, how can they not know the cause of the problem. I mean they've been slabbing books for 20 years and didn't have this issue then all of a sudden a few months ago, BAM. Now, bent wells. Also, it seems isolated to modern subs. In theory all CGC needs to do is a comparison between last year's processes and this year or vintage versus modern and they should be able to figure it out pretty quickly. I just don't get why they wouldn't be able to figure it out

I have it going back to 427 series which is June 2023. From 427-435 seems to be a coin flip, then a near certainty from 436+