MAY1979

^ at my Fortune 15 firm, Bonus' are decided in Oct, distributed late Jan, then the skedaddlin' begins.  

meaning never say or do anything that could negatively affect a divisions bottom line before those bonus' are determined.  To rock the boat prior to that means a Code Red ordered on you by some 18-24month-er resume padding Exec.

On 8/29/2024 at 8:29 AM, RBerman said:

Yes, people have learned to play their cards close to their chest in those auctions since sniping is a feasible tactic. It ends up lowering the overall sale price since no one has a chance to consider bidding "just a little higher" than they thought their ceiling was.

Bit of tangent but I see the same thing at Hakes which is baffling!  This is why:

All items are on INDIVIDUAL timers. Each item will close once its 20 minute countdown clock expires.
Each item will close when it has not received a new bid for a period of 20 minutes after 9:00 PM Eastern on the published closing date of the auction.The soonest any item will close is at 9:20 PM Eastern on the published closing date of the auction.
Items that have not received any bids by 9:20 PM Eastern will close.
If the current high bidder raises their maximum bid once the 20 minute rule is in effect, the clock on that individual item will NOT reset. The 20 minute countdown clock will only reset when competing bids are placed after 9:00 PM Eastern on the published closing date of the auction.
The entire auction will close automatically when 20 minutes pass after the last bid is placed and no new bid is placed on any auction item. At that point, no new bids will be accepted after the auction closes and each lot will be awarded to the highest bidder.
 

Yet in my experiences its common place to see bids placed in last 2-5 seconds in 3-4 consecutive 20 min intervals. Simply no reason to do that, no advantage of placing with 1 seconds or 20 minutes remaining.
 

On 8/29/2024 at 11:43 AM, Sauce Dog said:

Just bought a pile of raw books that will need grading before I sell em and a bunch of them are moderns (including 1st Hobgoblin, 1st Deadpool, 1st Venom, 1st Morbius, 1st Deathlok), so I'm going to wait until the two other books I have at CGC come back and I can see if those have warped inner wells.

If they are warped then I 100% know this next large batch of books can't be going for CGC submission, and I'll inquire elsewhere since there isn't any meaningful timeline put forward by CGC in fixing this issue. 

Nitpick: 2 are not modern

- Astonishing Tales 25 is Aug 1974

- ASM 101 is Oct 1971

Sad part is I knew date/year off top of my head....

Physical aspect aside for the moment, for a sub-set of collectors at minimum; the stink of year 2024 cert numbers will persist even after the issue is (if?) corrected. The more Social Media pickup on this the more sheep will be influenced and the larger that sub-set will grow.

On 8/29/2024 at 11:02 AM, Stefan_W said:

If that was the case all books, or at least top and bottom books, from all orders would have that tick. There is no reason to believe that some rubber bands will cause ticks while others do not. 

Streamers have a reputation for a reason. 

Aren't you one of them ?

On 8/29/2024 at 10:01 AM, smarkjobber said:

I see some curvature on the majority of my slabs that were graded from 2022 and forward. Most of it is slight, or only raised on one end, but some books graded before Fall '23 are as "bad" as what I've seen in this thread, minus any "phantom ticks." Is the banana effect not something you guys see at all in your own moderns before 2023/post reholdergate?

Have now found some of my 427 series (Grade Date June 2023) are just as bad as post 2023.  I am now thoroughly sickened.

2024 slabs appear to be a much higher ratio of damaged books but issue existed to some degree going back at least a year prior. 

My new current SOP:

I'm not sure of exactly within which numerical series the issue begins, but for now I'm considering 416 and lower as "safe".  

ALL 1975-present:

CGC 426 series or higher is an instant swipe left for me.  In effect no slab by slab basis, I'm done.

CGC 417-426 must see the book in hand first or purchase only from a venue where the buyer holds the power - specifically eBay. Due to their no-return policies, No auction house purchases!

Pre-1975:

CGC 426 series or higher must see the book in hand first or purchase only from a venue where the buyer holds the power - specifically eBay.  Due to no-return policies, No auction house purchases!

CGC 417-425 Still considering this mostly safe but IF higher value comic, must see in hand first or purchase only from a venue where the buyer holds the power - specifically eBay.  Due to no-return policies, No auction house purchases!

On 8/29/2024 at 9:32 AM, EastEnd1 said:

If anyone receives an order back WITHOUT the spine curves, please post here and let us know.  I, and sounds like many others, are holding off on submitting new orders until this is resolved, and it's hard to tell whether CGC will make any announcements once the issue is corrected.  Thank you.

A few non-damaged books here and there is not enough for me. At this juncture I personally require 6 consecutive months of no bends reported to even begin pondering submitting Comics again.
 

On 8/28/2024 at 11:14 PM, wiparker824 said:

Anyone can tag them, they both will pop in if they want, but in terms of increased returns CL doesn’t allow returns as their policy states: 

“No Return Policy. All items sold by COMICLINK are guaranteed authentic unless otherwise indicated. No items sold by COMICLINK are returnable or refundable for any reason.”

MCS allows returns, but not for CGC items as their policy states:

“CGC and CBCS graded comic purchases are not returnable

When buying comics graded and encased by CGC or CBCS, please closely inspect the large, high resolution cover images we provide. When purchasing a third-party graded comic you are accepting ownership of the comic at the grade assigned by the certification company. Disagreeing with the CGC or CBCS grade is not an acceptable reason to return a purchased comic.”

Now MCS also lists books on eBay, where buyers can force returns for 30 days, so that could happen I guess but generally neither of these 2 are going to be really impacted by returns because of their longstanding policies. 

As for the concern of lower hammer prices, maybe this happens in time but I’m not actually seeing that from my poking around. Recently graded books on both sites aren’t getting lower hammer prices at the moment as far as I can tell.

The sellers most impacted by this if it continues to garner attention are going to be the smaller sellers, particularly those on eBay who can be forced to return within 30 days for any reason. And as one of these small time sellers with an eBay account I am quite alarmed and withholding a lot of modern subs at the moment because of it.

 

While bulk of issue seems reside with 435+ series (graded after Oct 2023) what you mention is all the more reason NOT to purchase any 420 series or higher slabs from those venues. 

BTW:  I've returned several CGC slabs to MCS due to Shaken Comic Syndrome. It was very simple and seemed rather routine to them.  CLINK have had no issues yet, but I now will be completely avoiding their auctions due to their policy you quoted. I for one am not going to get burned.

P.S. eBay sellers like you will be the first the feel the pain and it will also be more intense. Hope you're able to pivot to a revised business model in the next several months, perhaps with a Golden geographic component?

I just went through a box of 30 misc late 70's Marvel CGC 9.8 Slabs.

- All 18 2nd Gen Slabs books were flat like pancake - Beautiful!
- 10 of the 3rd Gen Slabs all 211 and 212 series were as flat or  virtually as flat as a pancake.
- 2 of the 3rd Gen 211 series has a very slight slope/slant from top to bottom.  Really had scrutinize to notice. They are just fine.

I have decided that regardless pre or post 1975, 420 series or higher that i will not purchase online unless it's a venue where buyer has all the power. Exception being certain books that due to their size or width seem immune.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

IMHO someone "well known" should tag CLINK and MCS to this thread and let them know why they may see less bids and likley lower hammers, plus increased requests for returns, as a result of what is going on.  At this juncture they need to care especially in what is and will be a long-term overall hobby bear market. 

Perhaps also tag other folks like Blazing Bob as well as at very least this will not help business for him - but again should be someone well known and respected who tags them not someone like me who is neither.

On 8/28/2024 at 4:58 PM, bc said:

Actually, since this seems to be impacting moderns (with the heavier cover stock and better inks) the most visibly, the greater the density would increase the probability of damage.

-bc

I do forget there are comics printed after 1990...

On 8/28/2024 at 4:43 PM, bc said:

Just watched your new video 

The observation about variable paper stock & ink impacting the warping was cool.

-bc

Makes sense, the less density the greater the damage.

On 8/28/2024 at 12:57 PM, LordRahl said:

Can we please stop with this garbage? No one is getting different treatment. All of the books coming back are bent on modern tier. 

I'm flexible and am considering your comment, but it means the larger submiters are either blissfully unaware or too scared to speak up, or figure speaking up could destroy their business models which depend on steady flow of new sub returns to sell at FMV or higher.

It's already starting to snowball so sales or amounts of legit bidders thus final hammer totals if at auction will dwindle.  The keeping quiet card may be played out soon.  The only next move for those large submitters is to agree the bending is normal and hope enough rubes believe that.

All this points to resolving the issue will prove too potentially costly as it proves the damage being done is not normal.

I do think the foundation for a paradigm shift has been completed the only question is if it will being a one story building or a soaring into the heavens skyscraper...

On 8/28/2024 at 11:43 AM, 0r0d said:

Problem for CGC is they have already admitted that their process bends books.  They have claimed that this bending is a "normal" part of that process.  So, whether they admit to all the damages or not, and IANAL, this might well open them up for a class action lawsuit.

The parent company will sell them off IF the flow on their pump and dump starts to weaken.

On 8/28/2024 at 11:16 AM, VinceVellCUSTOMS said:

so basically they will just fake a press or beholder and say problem solved?

Due to fiscal ramifications and probable legalities the issue will be denied.

The statement that the bends are normal will be where they permanently hold the line. To support that statement they MUST continue to damage Comics or the statement can be empirically proven false.

In effect they are in far too deep  and now must rely/hope on competitors not gaining in positive marketplace perception. 

P.S. based on either lack of awareness or cognitive dissonance in threads like CGC wait times and submission question topics for example the deny strategy appears to be working at least for the moment.

Nor do we have explanation why large submitters and influences receive premium treatment on 1975-present.

Joey recent posts prove at least to me his books are handled with extreme care while most others are not. Can't be a coincidence.

Keep in mind that color breaking bends are not magically healed by removing a book from a slab.

In addition why on earth bother to submit if you must crack out??  Absolute waste of money!

Asking prices is one thing, but is anyone paying that for Heathcliff?  or if at an actual auction would it be lucky just to get to $350 in limited bidding.  Or is that too high an estimate?

Now the real money for Marvel's Star Comics is in Hugga Bunch!  Even low grade raw copies of #6 the hens tooth rare final issue routinely approach 3 figures.

Except for #1 Just look at these nearly non-existent Pops

On 8/27/2024 at 4:57 PM, SpineTic said:

 

A simple Mea Culpa back in May coupled with immediately providing everyone the Pre-1975 and or Major Submitter/Influencer treatment and it's would of been the tiniest of blips and long since forgotton. Now however it may be on verge or have already "gone viral"

The folks in Santa Ana in their wildest fantasy never ever could envisioned how much of their foot is now already in the door.  This issue may very well cancel out their absurd mistakes with slab size and red bordered flip (get used to calling them that rather than labels). They may very well need to immediately revise their staffing count down in Newport Beach (and Jersey?) across the board 'cause as soon as they flip the sign to open they may be hit by an inbound Comic tsunami.

On 8/27/2024 at 3:52 PM, Berkfam54 said:

Wasn't CGC Mike saying to email service like months ago?

That was during the ignore, ignore, ignore stage,  now we are in deny, deny, deny

On 8/27/2024 at 3:17 PM, Berkfam54 said:

Received an email back. They said I can submit it back to CGC. They want Matt N to look at it. 

In principle great but given legalities and bottom line protection considerations, this may not be a positive thing. Might merely be to affirm statements issued thus far.

On 8/27/2024 at 1:29 PM, ExNihilo said:

I'm way behind on this because I haven't had a submission in two years, but I currently have a book for grading.  Is this occurring with all slabs or just a few?  Has CGC announced they're making changes or is this getting brushed under the rug?  Kinda nervous about my submissions now.

Current methodology on 1975-Current being followed is allegedly; deny, deny, deny / damage, damage, damage / say it's normal, normal, normal.  The middle is the most concerning as it clearly is in effect only to prove the latter which of course is being done to prove the former.

Hope it's not a book with deep personal connection or too rare or valuable for you to replace.  However if is either a Vintage book or 1975-Present and was sent in via a major influencer and submitter like Joey, then in all likelihood it will be just fine.

On 8/27/2024 at 10:17 AM, Stefan_W said:

That was my first thought as well. The fact that they put them in another inner well without pressing and slapping the 9.8 label back on is really doubling down on CGC saying that nothing is going on here. At minimum they all need another press. 

As was stated here by another member - my apologies to them as I cant seem to find the post - having 9.0 and 9.2 books in 9.6 or 9.8 holders is what rendered PGX totally irrelevant.

History is littered with mentions of those previously considered "too big to fail" or "unsinkable" or "undefeatable".   Do we have a potential fresh Oreo coming next year to replace our crumbling Hydrox ?

On 8/27/2024 at 12:02 AM, Buzzetta said:

I would not even consign.  Who is to really say that the book sells for the reported price so the store owner can pocket a few more dollars?  Saw that scam when I was a teenager.

I like your statement more than my own I have now struck-through the consignment part in it.

Only folks less trustworthy than a Comic Book Dealer are Trading Card and Original Art Dealers.

On 8/26/2024 at 9:57 PM, electricprune said:

This is the first video I’ve seen that shows inner well measurements of new and slightly older slabs. His measurements say they are the same size. He also says the books will lay flat a short while after removal from the inner well.

 

Do the color breaking ticks magically heal themselves as well ??

On 8/26/2024 at 9:48 PM, Math Teacher said:

I understand dealers have overhead and other expenses of which I am probably unaware. However, except for keys, you're lucky if you get 25¢ on the dollar when you sell a book. When you come back a week later, the same book is available for sale at 25% above GPA.

Agreed. However, in 2024 why would someone with knowledge of the hobby, who's not in the throes of withdrawal and needs a quick fix, ever sell to a dealer? Consign sure, sell nopes!