BCarter27

Cary Nord's were final pencils and then digitally colored (more like painted). The originals are terrific. I think Tomas Giorello's were the same?

This isn't the first time I have seen this type of commission being done. I've seen examples of a different inker (not the production inker) being brought in to ink on the pencils. Or another inker's take over a blueline pencil copy. So, the hobby is definitely branching out. I think it is a trade-off. On one hand, the historical artifact is diminished. On the other, the piece presents better aesthetically. So I guess if the page isn't historically relevant, the work is quality, and it is documented if sold, then I don't have an issue with it. And I have far less issue with it in this case since it was the production inker recreating the work. But it's true, the only hand-touched art has been permanently altered. And I have pencil pages (that were later digitally-inked) that I would prefer to have preserved as is. If I wanted to ink them, I would ask them to be light-boxed. That all being said, the page looks great! (I am one of those oddball people who prefers inks over bluelines vs pencils. They present better and are closer to the final, published page.)

OK, then... Joe Potato... I need to know more about that guy. What's his history with Batman?!

Ah, OK. That's rough, but I guess you get what you contract for.

And how is the former spouse not getting gouged in those scenarios if they can't establish FMV? Curious to know if there are usually appraisers brought in.

Where on Earth did you dig up that gem? Bravo!

C'mon people... Buyers shouldn't be allowed to do any due diligence or market research! They definitely shouldn't be allowed to contact a network of third-party experts to verify pricing, provenance, or authenticity! And if you absolutely must let them do these idiotic things, only give them 3 days... MAX. Be sure to maintain the circle of silence at all costs. (Don't worry, this transparency stuff is just a fad.) Possible punishments may include making vague accusations on public forums. Seriously, I don't know the details of this transaction, but it was aired publicly and there are some examples here of the BS that buyers/collectors (of every level, even Frank Miller) have to put up with. Even if prices are firm, we have a right to know if we are getting raked over the coals. I also have mixed feelings about the collector who was consulted about pricing by Metropolis then reaching back out to Graphic Collectibles. Is that increasing transparency or is it someone breaching trust to stir up unnecessary drama? This has happened to me a few times. I'd like to hear what others think. Also, I can see how that could lead to the beginnings of shadiness. Buyer: "Hey, how much do you think this page is worth?" Consulting Collector:"$65K" Buyer: "Awesome, thanks!" Buyer hangs up. Consulting Collector calls Rep: "Buyer contacted me. I did you a solid and told him it was worth $65K. Now, about that cover that I want..." I feel like if someone contacts you for your help and your opinion, don't abuse that. And buyers should always consult with multiple fellow collectors or sources to verify pricing and guard against this type of behavior.

An updated version of Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast

Exactly.

All of those artist topics over there were landmines. Youch. I think the OA posters tend to be a little more respectful and forgiving about differing tastes. Maybe because we interact more with the artists themselves?

Looking up the above Image doc, I found a bunch of other stuff on Amazon Prime- Comic Book Independents https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AVA53CO/ref=pd_cbs_318_2 Rude Dude https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SU3THLM/ref=pd_cbs_318_6 Drawing Good Girls with Adam Hughes (paid) https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G1FQ1L0/ref=pd_cbs_318_11 ...Will check them out. Also, did someone already link this James O'Barr interview? It is pretty intense.

Really fun!!! I think this is a great way to appreciate the art and celebrate "the hunt" itself. I think the best of lists are always an unexpected window into the demographics of the hardcore collectors too. Maybe I am misreading or over-generalizing, but it seems like more often than not Marvel wins and Bronze wins. Which makes sense, no? And I love how Grell won the sketch category and yet everyone was ragging on him in Comics General this week. Justice is served.

COVERS Kyle K :: All Star Batman #1 Variant Cover - Batman & Robin VS. Rogues Gallery: Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Penguin, Killer Croc by Lee Bermejo http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8810 Charles Beaumont :: The Maxx: Maxximized #29 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8568 Raymond Bryan :: Uncanny X-Men 493 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8505 Raymond Bryan :: Uncanny X-Men #600 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8506 Ronan Killack :: Romita, Sr., John - Amazing Spider-Man, issue 125, cover http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8619 Honorable Mentions- Dave W (JadeGiant.com) :: The Fallen #1 Variant Painted Hulk cover by Chris Stevens http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8494 Martin T :: Spider-man and His Rogues Gallery. Philip Tan's SDCC artbook cover. http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8654 Chris Swartz :: The Crow #3 cover by James O'Barr http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8490 SPLASHES Jared Simmons :: Secrets of the Batcave http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8900 Jeff Singh :: Bissette/Tottleben Swamp Thing Splash http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8628 Dave W (JadeGiant.com) :: Hulk 228 Finale Splash page by Sal Buscema and Bob McLeod. http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8493 Karl-Erik Lindkvist :: Joëlle Jones - Lady Killer #3 - p14-15 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8609 Peter Venkman :: Chris Bachalo - Age of Apocalypse #2 p1 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8743 Honorable Mentions- Ted Latner :: S.H.I.E.L.D. pinup from Marvel Super-Heroes Vol 2. #6 Summer Special (1991) by Guice http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8463 Ankur J :: Wonder Woman Splash by Don Heck http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8716 Jon Hess :: Bruce Timm - All-New X-Men 25 page 6 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8770 INTERIORS Felix Lu :: NEXUS: THE ORIGIN p.28-29 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8861 ~ ephiny22 :: Batwoman #0, p. 20 (end page) - J.H. Williams III http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8955 Brian Peck :: The Rocketeer, Volume 2, Cliff's New York Adventure page 29 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8432 Felix Lu :: PREACHER #35 p.16 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8862 ~ ephiny22 :: Detective Comics #860, p. 18 & 19 (DPS) featuring Batwoman - J.H. Williams III http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8746 Honorable Mentions- Andrew Hanna :: Shadows and Light #1 Black Widow story pg. 12 by Gene Ha http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8845 Ricky Bobby :: Amazing Spider-Man #68 - pg 18 - Romita Sr and Jim Mooney http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8571 Mark Howland :: Kirby Sinnott Fantastic Four 99 page 12 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8843 STRIPS Benno Rothschild :: Tom Grindberg Tarzan http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8943 Rune Rasmussen :: Garfield Daily (8/8 1980) Comic Strip by Jim Davis http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8557 Brian Peck :: Secret Agent X-9 "The Key To Power" http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8429 Gary Land :: Jack Burnley Batman Sunday 2/17/46 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8517 Mark Howland :: Carol Day 135 by David Wright http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8800 Honorable Mention- James Halperin :: Flash Gordon http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8817 COMMISSIONS Leonard Richman :: Fantastic Four Vs. Dr. Doom by John Byrne http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8680 Terry Doyle :: AMAZING SPIDER-MAN # 4 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8634 Phillip Anderson :: Green Lanterns Arisia & Hal by Gardenia Lima http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8902 Alan Hamilton :: Daenerys Targaryen (Game of Thrones) by Jae Lee http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8685 Andrew Hanna :: Black Widow by Drew Johnson http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8779 Honorable Mentions- Jon Hess :: Bruce Timm - Savageland Rogue Commission http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8771 Thorsten Brümmel :: Andreas - The Spirit http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8896 Hans Kosenkranius :: J. Kirby - 1966 Robot Pencil http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8937 Ankur J :: Stanley Lau Mary Jane http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8720 Benno Rothschild :: Ian Bertram commission http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8854 Octavio D :: The Incredible Hulk Homage by Gary Frank http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8748 ~ ephiny22 :: Batwoman commission - Carlo Pagulayan http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8420 SKETCHES Phillip Anderson :: Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8903 Octavio D :: Flash Jam by Jim Cheung http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8687 James Bella :: DK3 Francine and Katchoo by Terry Moore http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8527 eewwnuk 1 :: Batman - Norm Breyfogle http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8786 Michael Diaz :: Jae Lee - The Sandman http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8588 Honorable Mentions- Karl-Erik Lindkvist :: Joëlle Jones - Lady Killer http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8613 Karl-Erik Lindkvist :: John McCrea - Tommy Monoghan, happy & content http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8612 OTHER Chris Swartz :: Kevin Eastman 1985 TMNT Raphael Pin-Up http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8492 Michael Diaz :: Matt Wagner - The Demon http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8584 Brian Peck :: Osiris and Isis (plate 3) http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8431 Hans Kosenkranius :: T. Charest - Drawings http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8939 Roger K. :: Roy Krenkel - Squa Tront John Carter of Mars http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8742 Honorable Mentions- Hans Kosenkranius :: D. Cooke - New Frontier http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8941 robert frey :: Barry Windsor-Smith Britannia http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8438 BEST IN SHOW Kyle K :: All Star Batman #1 Variant Cover - Batman & Robin VS. Rogues Gallery: Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, Penguin, Killer Croc by Lee Bermejo http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8810 Jared Simmons :: Secrets of the Batcave http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8900 Jeff Singh :: Bissette/Tottleben Swamp Thing Splash http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8628 Felix Lu :: NEXUS: THE ORIGIN p.28-29 http://www.comicartfans.com/LowryPiece.asp?Piece=8861 I try my best to vote outside of my personal nostalgia, except for my picks for Best in Show. A lot of pieces from books I've never read or seen. Thanks to all who entered! This was really fun going through everyone's acquisitions.

Now, I was always a bit confused by this... How did Duotone/Duoshade board work exactly? You drew directly on it?

As an added bonus, scrolling through this thread creates a moiré disco effect on my computer monitor. Apparently Zip-a-Tone can still create visual magic even in the digital age!

A poor inker is burning the midnight oil on deadline. He's jittery from caffeine and there's a baby crying somewhere. Or maybe that's just his inner child slowly fading away as he scratches out yet another panel of cross-hatching. There are presses ready to roll, delivery trucks sitting idle, and grocery spinners standing as vacant and empty as his soul. So what can he possibly do to get this ship into port on time? Get ready to cut and paste the old fashioned way, 'cause it's time for... Zip-a-Tone! Yes, our old yellowing, curling friend and every graphic artist's last refuge... It comes in many flavors and patterns. So let's see your Zip-a-Tone pages and panels!

This remains to be seen as those black hole collections (or those smaller "dark matter" collections of onesies and twosies) come to light. As I said earlier, WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE POST-1975 ART? (Or whenever the Big Two decided to actively give back art. When was that for Marvel and DC? Can someone clarify?) I was trying to articulate this point in another thread recently. The differences between a second-run Cockrum and first-run Cockrum may start to soften as that age group divests or dies out. And further proving my point, look how many people wouldn't mind taking home the "leg" Alex Raymond.

First appearance of Lady Shiva in #5! Got my copy signed by Denny O'Neil. Wish I could've gotten those pages that popped up recently from Richard Dragon.

This modern vs vintage argument is ridiculous from an aesthetic point of view. You want word balloons? Fine, go get an overlay made. But I could crash this forum with so much art from the last 17 years that BLOWS AWAY most pre-2000 art. The competition has gotten more and more intense... both internally and with other media such as gaming. Art schools are producing more and more talent. Gaming and concept artists are spilling over into comics. Digital art has helped artists not only work faster, but get better faster while learning from their mistakes. More sharing of techniques on places like deviantart. More publishers hiring. Faster feedback from readership. These all lead to better technique. The bulk of modern comic art is much more skilled than the bulk of pre-2000 art. It's like saying the athletes of yesteryear could compete in the same games today. Most human endeavors accelerate in their growth, building on the foundations that were laid before. And on top of that improvement curve are the outliers... More recognition of comic art as a serious medium worthy of study has led to true virtuosos spending their time in this field. You get guys like Alex Ross or Del'Otto or Bermejo or Suayan or JH Williams or James Jean. These guys would've gone into illustration pre-1960 or Salon art pre-1900, but instead we get them in comics now. Yes, you can show a ballooned page to your aunt and she can read it. But show your aunt an Adams/Novick/Aparo page and compare it to a Finch/Fabok/Lee/Barrows/Capullo page and see which she thinks is more exciting, took longer to complete, and has more appeal to the uninitiated. (And for the record, I would rather own the Adams/Novick/Aparo page for nostalgic reasons, but that is not my point.) And lest I limit my point to more illustrative styles, there are examples of cartoonier artists that are equally ground-breaking. Damion Scott, Nick Pitarra, or Geoff Darrow spring to mind. To think that the bulk of published newer art is not superior to the bulk of published older art is very much reliant on rose-colored nostalgia glasses. There are simply more great artists today than there were great artists of yesteryear. The industry is supporting more talent than ever.

Tales of the Jedi! That takes me back. Great page and not something you see every day from that title.

Yup. Beat me to it.

On the flip side, the common complaint about modern superhero OA is that the artists are so mindful of possible OA sales that they load up an issue with splashes. And most big-money collectors buy covers and splashes. So what do they care that panel pages have less story in them? This goes back to my own worries about ending up with a collection that is all covers and splashes simply because I have tricked myself into worrying about resale. The art of layout and storytelling won't be as well represented in my collection, if I am not careful.

The longer this thread goes on, with the more posters concluding that the fallout is imminent, the more the answers to the OP might be irrelevant... If the vintage OA market corrects/collapses in 15-30 years, then WHEN TO SELL? Answer: doesn't matter. Most collectors here on the boards have said they will welcome a drop in prices because they can finally afford art that has been out of reach. And those "dark matter" collectors, they aren't heavily invested enough to care about when to sell off either. Everyone will divest on their own schedule, until they reach that personal point where fetishizing the object is no longer important to them. Most have come to terms with the fact that the money is burned anyway. ("Collect what you love", right? Really means, "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.") Modern OA will live on in its own different market with its own time line. It will fragment and niche along with the rest of new media. I can't help but think these "sky is falling" threads are just to crash prices in order to pickup pages on the cheap. . The Anti-Cabal has risen!

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing that data. I think it puts a lot of questions to bed, and I would love to hear other modern OA reps weigh in on the same questions.

These are the "dark matter" collectors I was referring to. The "soft" or "casual" collectors who have bought art like this since the early 80s and will likely keep doing so in the same manner until digital production really dries up the supply for good. As for pen and ink recreations of digital pages, that's very interesting. Though they are just that to me... recreations. However, if they are all that is available, I might consider them. But given the choice between a one-off recreation of a digital page and a one-off print of the published digital page, I am not sure. I might go with the recreation since hands touched paper. I'd have to think about that. But modern OA collectors will have to come to terms with questions like these. We are already seeing it with the pencils vs blueline inks. (Btw, sell me all of your worthless blueline ink pages. I can't see those much-preferred pencil pages on my wall from 5 feet away!)