Lazyboy

Must be a preview of something else inside. It's actually the first published part of From Hell.

Unfortunately, the Hobgoblin became a mess after Stern left Spidey. Hobgoblin Lives revealed the truth, but still couldn't fix the damage done to the character. Not to mention the return of the original Green Goblin by the time Hobgoblin Lives hit the stands.

Ah yes, how dare someone hit the eBay/MCS BIN price... Ruining it for everyone to purely inflate the price! Are you saying that somebody trying to manipulate prices and screwing with people who are trying to sell their items isn't any kind of problem?

In which universe? Our Universe? From the CGC census: MTU 1 604 total CGC graded copies 3 @ 9.8 8 @ 9.6 59 @ 9.4 11.5% of the graded copies of MTU 1 are NM or better. 1/2 of one percent are 9.8 New Mutants 98 5821 total CGC graded copies 1 @ 10 8 @ 9.9 1432 @ 9.8 1622 @ 9.6 848 @ 9.4 Not only are the almost 10x more CGC graded NM 98 than MTU 1, 67% of the graded NM 98's are 9.4 or better. 25% are 9.8 or better. I think that counts as MTU 1 being extremely rare compared to NM 98 He didn't say in HG or UHG or in CGC cases. If you think the CGC census represents all copies in any way...

re: Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel, Eddie Brock/Venom, Jim Rhodes/War Machine, etc. That one would be a much better example if Eddie Brock made even a single appearance before bonding with the symbiote.

In which universe?

Exactly what part that was cropped out do you think supports your case? Is it the paragraph that mentions another great "first" and a brief "history" of TEEN TITANS? Maybe the paragraph that says our fabulous new foursome is the key?

Give me a break. Lots of groups of two heroes have referred to themselves or been referred to as "teams" in comic stories. That means nothing, whether they later team up with others or not. The original lineup of the Teen Titans is Robin, Kid Flash, Aqualad and Wonder Girl. Look at the cover of BB 60: "TEEN TITANS - 4 TEENAGE HEROES IN ONE BLAZING ADVENTURE!"

Because more corrected labels weren't the result of the flood of CGC 9.8 copies and 9.8 floods from CGC never drive down prices (regardless of any issue notes on the label) and that's not the argument you're making about ASM 361 second prints?

I don't understand the people posting links to search engines that enable a person to type in a card name to find values. We're discussing a collection that probably spans ten years and thousands of cards. Looking up a whole collection of cards individually in this fashion is nuts. At least with the link B3AST just posted (from the same site I linked) you can click on the sets and get a full price list for that set.

Every time you mention the DC Wikia (not run by DC), I am embarrassed for you. Especially, since that site which is contradicts DC's official position as reflected in the first reprinting of BB 54 (labeling it a Teen Titans story) and the official DC Teen Titans Archive. The rest of your statement above is gibberish and a strawman. The argument for BB 54 requires you to read and rely upon the content BB 60, most notably the exchange between Batman and Robin on page 5 and footnoted citation to BB 54 therein. The argument for BB 54 is in now way contradicted by the cover or splash of BB 60, neither of which states that it is the "first appearance" of the group called therein as the "Teen Titans." (I'm not disputing its the first use of the trademarked name for that group.) The argument for BB 54 being the first adventure of the Teen Titans is actually the same as the argument for Avengers 1 being the first adventure of the Avengers -- an argument you ignore. You can keep fighting the fight, but I think logic, history, and DC are against you on this one. P.S. Please don't mention the D.C. Wikia again. The front page of the wikia makes clear that "This is the world's largest DC Comics encyclopedia that anyone can edit, hosted by wikia." It is a Wiki. Not a DC corporate site. You, good sir, are the spouter of gibberish. Not a single comic comes to mind that officially announces on the splash page that its the "official first appearance" of anything. That is somewhat ridiculous. It's the first time the group is referred to as the Teen Titans. This cannot be disputed. If DC Wikia is so easily manipulated maybe you should go on there and change it back to 54? It probably wouldn't take you as long as losing. I'm tempted to sign up for Wikia so I can change the entry to "blazincomics SUCKS!" in the largest font size available just to prevent you from continuing to reference wiki sites as some kind of authority. And because I'm White and Nerdy.

Yeah, I hate when people equate census numbers to extant copies. I wish Death would claim those people.

The same thing happened for awhile with the asm 300 chromium reprint. For awhile that was actually "more" valuable than the first printing. Now it's not close. The second printing of asm 361 isn't a scarce comic at all. I fully expect the first printing to pull away from the second printing sooner rather than later for good, as happened with 300. Pretty much everybody wants the first printing of the first appearance of a major character, whereas "second printings" are a bit more of a niche sub-market with a smaller collector base. -J. I'm sorry, but some of what you said above doesn't hold up to scrutiny. First of all,the ASM #300 chromium reprint is not the ASM #300 second print. It came out 10 years later and is officially Marvel Collectibles Classic #1. The ASM #361 second print came out a month after the first print. That's a completely different comparison. Secondly, The ASM #361 second print is extremely scarce compared first print in universal 9.8. There are 917 blue 9.8's of the first print on the census, compared to only 47 blue 9.8's of the second print. I've been watching second prints on eBay and they don't come up much often. When they do they're bought within hours or sooner. But hes right that second (or higher) printings are a niche market compared to originals. They appeal to the bored and jaded collectors who already have the originals they want and don't know how else to expand their collections. It's only in the last few years that most second+ printings and reprints have really started to be sought out in any significant numbers and have achieved any value. Which obviously affects the submission/census numbers.

I hate to change topics, but I don't understand this assertion either. How is this not the first appearance of Wolverine?: * It is in story; * It features the character in all his glory, speaking even; and * It includes his trademarked name and costume. Now, I agree that it is not a better book than 181 which is a full story and cover. But, I don't understand why "cameo" is inconsistent with "first appearance." This isn't an ad, it's a plot development. If you don't get 180, you don't have the first appearance of Wolverine. To argue otherwise seems to confuse the concepts of "first appearance" with "first story" or even, if you want to confuse people with subjective terms, "first full appearance" (whatever that means). But, as a "first appearance," there's no doubt that 180 qualifies -- and $660,000 in competitive bidding evidences that point. Yeah, but it's a plot development which occurs at the perfect time to be obvious in its intentions to be little more than an ad for the next issue. Referencing the OA sale? Give me a break. I thought you just said the stories are what is important. As a single page devoid of context, it is the first time Wolverine appears. So what? BB 54 is the inspiration for the formation of the Teen Titans, both at DC (the company) and in DC (continuity). I don't think origin is quite the right word.

This link is much easier for people who don't know much or anything about M:tG. Sets are listed in reverse order, with expansion symbols beside them for easier identification. Within the sets, you can sort prices from highest to lowest, making rarity irrelevant. Core Sets are slightly trickier since they don't have expansion symbols until 6th Ed.

The Overstreet Price Guide has never been a source of perfect information (even ignoring prices). You better go tell those insufficiently_thoughtful_person War collectors and Overstreet that OOAW 81 is the first appearance of Sgt. Rock. That is straight from DC too. BB 54 is certainly relevant to the Teen Titans in that it is the first teen sidekick team-up without the adult heroes. But BB 60 is the first official Teen Titans and the first appearance of Wonder Girl (Donna Troy). It's never too late to correct inaccuracies and doing so is not a "retcon." As a matter of fact, calling BB 54 the first appearance of the Teen Titans is a retcon.

Good arguments. Way to totally blow it at the end.

If the team was officially formed after the events of BB 54, then how is BB 60 not the first Teen Titans?

When/where did DC say otherwise? Although I guess that's not actually from DC. Wow. There's tens of thousands of comics on that DC wikia. Is this orchestrated by a guy that has literally dedicated his life to documenting every DC comic ever printed along with its contents or is it something monitored by a represent the company itself? Either way, I think it would be hard to debate against the BB 60. Do you seriously not understand wiki sites?

DC doesn't have a Wikia site. Wikia has a DC site.

When/where did DC say otherwise?

Your right as of now,but in the long run Spawn is the tortoise, while Deadpool is the hare in this race. I for one thought Spawn was amazing from the beginning and still think the character hasn't touched his potential yet. The story line for Spawn was solid and the artwork was amazing in my opinion. Spawn #1s cover is still one of my favorites to this day. The B&W Variant Special Edition reprint of that book is still on my want list. Fixed. I think Spawn has had his day. Not that nothing could be done with him in the future, I just don't see it happening.

Yeah, that's the typical range of color. The Blue holos are all blue - no change in color. I love these production quirk books. They are so much fun to find. Back in the 90s you could see a lot of oddball books in circulation. Now sadly you just don't see as many as shops watch for them more closely now. I'm sure lower print runs and better production quality hurts more than shops.

The regular cover is almost always the lower printed version when there is an enhanced cover. ASM (v.2) 25 is not the exception to this rule. Funny thing though; I used to see almost all enhanced versions of this issue when I saw ASM (v.2) issues, but recently it's been all regulars.

I didn't miss your point. You're using the term "broke out" in a way that is not common. This thread is about the value of individual books, not (necessarily) the popularity of characters. "Breaking out" means that a book has become more popular and desired than the books around it, and that desire has been recognized. Spiderman #252, for example, is "broken out" from #240-#260. You're not understanding: the issue isn't whether or not Deadpool as a character is profitable for Marvel to publish him. The issue is the specific value of his first appearance. And, in that sense...that is, the value of his first appearance...Deadpool was forgotten for nearly 20 years. I didn't say Deadpool, like Fatman, the Human Flying Saucer, drifted off into unpublished obscurity. It's simply that the demand for his first appearance simply didn't exist for the vast majority of his 24 years. That's not true, it just wasn't off-the-charts nuts (like it is in the current rampant speculation phase) and didn't outweigh the large supply during the dark days and slow recovery phase. Many broken out books were also "worthless" during this time period, as I'm sure you know.