MGH

On 5/18/2023 at 6:20 PM, fastballspecial said:

Well the cat is out of the bag now on ASM 26. Now this will really test how popular that 
character actually is. Out of all the characters they had to play with why they killed this
one really doesn't make alot of sense.

will anyone care? 

A)  no doubt will return in near future anyway.

B) even if it was permanent, is it really going to upset the comic fandom like Marvel was letting on?     

On 8/28/2022 at 12:33 AM, Dr. Balls said:

I won’t speak for CGC, but this is pretty much the current state of everything everywhere. I am an employer and can tell you that we experience this, and so does every other employer I speak with across many different kinds of employment.

I have zero doubt that they are experiencing the same problems trying to add barely-trainable employees to an already-struggling workforce that is buried with work.

At the risk of sounding like a 49-year old fogey, I will say here what I say to everyone I talk to who complains about this problem:

”It’s the millennials world now - this is how they want it to run. We just live in it.”

On 8/25/2022 at 10:42 PM, shadroch said:

That all well, but it doesn't explain the grades the submitted books were given.  Thats the much bigger issue, to me.

That's explained by them only grading  the acetate cover and ignoring the actual comic it was applied  to post production ..   

That in itself blows my mind because typical ( correct)  procedure  would be to grade the comic  as if the acetate  cover wasn't attached..   And apply a green label to recognise the score ignores   the damage caused by the extra staple holes 

On 8/25/2022 at 10:35 PM, FFB said:

I'm sure they knew what it was in that regard, without having to check the barcode.  I believe them when they say they knew exactly what they were grading, and to an extent, I agree that they knew exactly what they were grading.  It was an acetate, aftermarket cover stapled on to an already-released comic book that didn't sell through the first go-around.  

What I do not believe, and won't believe unless someone from CGC were to admit it out loud, is that they knowingly aided and abetted Black Flag in infringing Marvel's intellectual property.  I think CGC did not realize that what they were doing was illegal, either because they got bad legal advice or no legal advice on the matter before giving the project the go-ahead.  

Cgc grading it  is not illegal.    But recognising it as a legitimate book was pretty stupid.   

On 8/25/2022 at 8:21 AM, FFB said:

Black Flag is the one who had (and violated) the Exclusives contract with Marvel that prohibited them from doing this in the first place.  I doubt that CGC knew (or perhaps "realized" is a better word) that Black Flag was doing something unlawful when they made acetate versions.  I don't think CGC would have willingly gone along with the plan if they realized that what Black Flag was doing was illegal, as that would have made CGC potentially liable for aiding and abetting copyright infringement (which has civil AND criminal liability).  

All cgc has to do when receiving a  book they hadn't seen before was check the barcode and they would have known straight away it was an augmented version of the previous variant,  not a new comic 

This is something I personally assumed cgc does as part of their verification process.  

Evidently,  they do not 

On 8/23/2022 at 10:52 PM, jaybuck43 said:

In reading into what Mike said, I think they kind of did (without coming out and explaining it).  They treated the Acetate as the cover and the cover as "interior pages".  The grade has always been dependent on the cover and spine, not the interior pages.  Once the corners and cover are graded, they then just count the interior pages and make a page color determination.  So a dinged cover gets covered in 3 mil acetate which is going to be perfect or near perfect, and suddenly the corners and spine are perfect and you see a proliferation of high grades.  

What you are talking to is pretty reasonable for near mint and below provided there are no major defects in the interior such as staining tears creases etc

When we cross over into mint 9.9 and gem mint 10.0  the whole book should be pristine..  10.0 is the unicorn.  

On 8/23/2022 at 9:43 PM, DoctorWyoming1 said:

Me too. I agree with it. And what I was trying to say was: They set a high bar, why limbo under it at the very next office party?

But do they honour it to the letter?    Or are favours granted?  

SS is not a recorded process where we can say watch a video of every signature being created and how it s slabbed ..  The whole SS Simply relies that the customer trusts that the right thing has been done and the rules have been followed 

.. Like trusting that cgc,  as an impartial grading company,  will only certify legitimate books per their grading  standards at all  times 

On 8/23/2022 at 7:24 PM, Motor City Rob said:

 

No, it's no common practice. The entire book should always be graded. CGC knows this incident was a mistake. Disappointing that it took them so long to change their stance and get it right.

I'm far from convinced it was a mistake beyond mistaking how   the response to this poor decision making process would be and how much exposure it would attract

@TTony 

Re:   response above specifically says "The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book."  That should address your concern.

How does that address concern...  It implies they only graded the acetate until they succumbed to public pressure and agreed it should be the book..  

Is this a one off?   Or is this common practice where only the exterior cover  of a modern is used to determine  grade

On 8/23/2022 at 12:09 PM, Juno Beach said:

So CGC just grades covers and not the entire book? 

It does appear to be their approach to moderns. 

Id like this clarified as don't want to be in scenario  where pay premium to   buy a slabbed modern 9.6 / 9.8  only to crack it and find out  its  full of crisps,  greasy finger marks and creased pages  on the inside 

On 8/23/2022 at 9:03 AM, THE_BEYONDER said:

So the qualified label is simply to ignore the new staple holes?  Being an after market modification, I think it would make more sense to ignore the acetate cover altogether, along with the damage caused by applying it.  Just grade the book underneath, and that’s the qualified grade.

Seems like that's their position they are walking back to.   Certainly aren't going back to where it should be in my opinion ( the fact they have to qualify that the whole book is graded is a head scratcher)  

On 8/23/2022 at 8:05 AM, Axelrod said:

Credit where credit is due, this at least recognizes and addresses 1/2 the issues raised. 

Radio silence as to how the books got the numerical grades they got  in the first place continues, but that was pretty much always going to be the case.

I believe this statement addresses that 

"The grade assigned will take into consideration the grade of the acetate cover as well as the interior book" 

The way I read this,  those books were not graded this way..  Ie,  only graded cover 

On 8/18/2022 at 10:39 AM, CJ Design said:

Breaths should not be Held.......

I suspect if there was a response  will be another strawman like ' marvel states no retailer can  modify books but states nothing of the original artist modifying the book which are the rules we determined when assessing this artists  variant'   

On 8/17/2022 at 1:42 PM, TTony said:

laser cutting with a vision system to guide the laser.

"Engraving and cutting cellulose acetate sheets with a laser cutter is doable, but not ideal. Compared to PMMA it creates more smoke, smells strange and creates a residue which is hard to remove at least from the cutting area itself. This is especially not nice for clear cellulose acetate sheets, less of an issue with colored ones. So while cellulose acetate sheets can work, PMMA or Plexiglas is a better material for me."    - thanks google 

On 8/17/2022 at 10:12 AM, ExNihilo said:

You joke, but I actually assumed this was the actual way of trimming the acetate to get it to line up perfectly with the actual comic cover.

and to get that razor sharp 10.0 edge, would assume would need to take a little off the original book too.     ( i.e. in theory its   only achievable to get a 10.0 cut in the original production phase when dont need to TRIM the final book to get things to line up as in production they are all cut together as one.    i really would like to know if it can be done another way )  

On 8/17/2022 at 7:33 AM, BS Damutantman said:

It seems possible to me (without any proof) that CGC could offer a more advanced prescreen option to retailers. It does seem highly unlikely otherwise that BF lucked into that grade distribution. 

you can see an entire run of 50,000 books with no 10.0 .... why would there be an advanced service to find a unicorn amongst even 1000 books ?   

I still for the life of me cant understand how anyone can staple a cover to an already existing book and have all edges line up flawlessly to achieve a 9.9 or 10.0.    the only i can think of is to trim the book back after it was stapled otherwise there surely must be some misalignment.   

has anyone been able to explain this

oh thats right.. it doesnt matter if you are an 'established artist' buying slabs in bulk

Out of all this can definitively see a market for  marvel and others  to  move from blank sketch variants to blank acetate cover variants going forward 

Get those 9.9 and 10.0  yellow slabs for remarks etc on acetate

On 8/14/2022 at 4:25 PM, Red84 said:

I regret to inform you that your books have retroactively become cover less acetate versions since you are missing the amazing new acetate. However, you can now make a lot of money selling your cover less version of the week’s hottest variant!!!

hah.. can you imagine.

from now on UF4 gets 'missing cover' and green label 

On 8/13/2022 at 11:32 AM, JC25427N said:

I don't think anyone working the booth at cons are high enough up the chain to have an answer, let alone speak freely to give an answer even if they had one

exactly my point... its business as usual at CGC  ( who are the primary reason for this mess) .  All the uproar, but people keep on going back .  

black flag were a bit dumb / naive doing what they did thinking it was totally OK.   At the end of the day i dont blame them or their staff that for this mess.

CGC are representing themselves as the gatekeepers of this stuff and collectors rely on them.  if CGC never graded this book in such an unprofessional manner, the only story would be about how silly the influencers were falling on each other's swords - hyping up a poorly modified comic and wasting their money on it . 

instead, CGC they have validated this by grading the book the way they have and proceeded to double and triple down on it , creating a massive backlash in the collector community.  Once again the financial fallout is currently  only hitting the comic dealer who did something dumb to try make a buck and now has an empty booth and copping heat on the floor at Boston.   

As long as collectors keep putting value on the CGC slab over a raw or competitor's history tells us this will continue and get more blatant.    

Has anyone approached CGC at the con?