MGH

Time to be flooded with unsold back issues with new plastic  covers 

Cgc finally found a way to get additional  business from all those long boxes of unsold 90s issue #1's 

And here we thought we'd already  hit peak nonsense variants...  

No more CGC for me...  Thanks..  Im out 

On 8/13/2022 at 1:02 AM, CGC Mike said:

We feel it is important to provide transparency on how CGC arrived at our method of certifying Clayton Crain’s Ultimate Fallout comics with the attached acetate covers. For us, this was an unprecedented item to grade. After Mr. Crain spoke with us prior to C2E2, the rules we applied to his books:

 

• The additional cover had to be created by an established artist in the industry.
• The comic to which the cover was attached had to contain a cover by that same artist.
• A copy of the comic with the attached cover had to be submitted to us for inspection prior to certifying any copies.

 

Given the recent circumstances, we have made adjustments to the labeling originally used for the Ultimate Fallout exhibiting the acetate cover. Going forward, any copies submitted to CGC will display in the label text: "In God We Intrust" Acetate Artist Cover attached with 2 staples after manufacturing. The books will still be allowed to receive a Universal label.

 

This will also apply to Mr. Crain’s forthcoming copies of Ghost Rider #1 and Deadpool Nerdy 30 #1 that contain an acetate cover.  

 

 

On 8/12/2022 at 1:46 PM, Every Day A Story said:

Can't believe this mess and that CGC, Clayton Crain have taken a stance on this and both alongside those said influencers have all lost my respect. 

This C2E2 book isn't a variant, it's a bootleg/unofficial item! The Stray Dogs example CGC used to justify their actions here was an official product. CGC should recall the grades and books.

In terms of Black Flag, everyone should vote with their feet and not entertain these Frankenbooks. 

As this grows and grows I have gone from giving Clayton crain benefit ofthe doubt to realising he is likely just as complicit with what went down 

After that latest  bleeding cool story seems like plan was a mass publicity stunt and book drive for their own new self published works, using their left over marvel stock as the  vehicle for said publicity and quick highly speculative buck. 

Why oh why did CGC board that train when all can see the tracks  lead off a cliff 

On 8/12/2022 at 7:32 AM, CJ Design said:

A) I'm sure they wouldn't give a rat's

B) I hope you're not trying to be funny...because it's not to me.

Didn't mean to offend.. And I was dead serious  as while I don't think black flag gives two hoots for their cash grab I'd like to think marvel would not care for their brand being presented in an offensive way to  veterans 

On 8/12/2022 at 12:53 AM, CJ Design said:

I'm still pissed and annoyed of the disrespect of the folded Flag...NO Red or White should be showing. RIP Dad.

If you wrote a letter to MARVEL on your disappointment on this disrespect  on 'their variant' I'm sure you would see repercussions.. 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:31 PM, Sigur Ros said:

But they are bulk produced. Is the difference that 750 are drawn and 750 are printed? 

I know.  No one here did. 

I'm just saying how I see it.  And I'm not defending the guy.  As I have clearly stated previously.  But all the "he can't do that!", "he should be sweating", yada yada is just forum talk.  No one here knows what's going to happen.

Not sure why a half dozen people care what I say, but they should stop. 

The way you see it doesn't align with the rules we live under. 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:22 PM, Sigur Ros said:

1. CGC still hasn't spoken further. 
2. Guys are still @'ing each other. 
3. There is an unusually large population of "lawyers" here. 

You are on a board where a lot of us have professions based on creation or distribution of  IP   

On 8/11/2022 at 8:02 PM, Sigur Ros said:

1) You can buy pre-dawn sketches. 

2) Sketches very often cost more.... "generate more income". 

3) Are you saying if each cover had something different about it then no uproar?   I would disagree with that. 

They are not bulk printed... They are one off and they are understood as being one of art pieces by an artist with nothing to do with the published piece.   If they were to mass produce the owner of original IP is able  to ask ( or litigate) for licensing fees or order cease and desist 

Look.. I didn't write the laws or case  precedent but that's how it is and you can look it up if you don't believe anyone here. 

Edit :  I only know from copping this before from  what seemed out  of nowhere but in hindsight made sense 

On 8/11/2022 at 7:09 PM, Lirion said:

Which has been my point in most of my comments in the thread. Before even getting to the integrity of their grades, that the books received a blue label versus a green to me is a bigger issue since it's something that should happen before the book is graded. Book comes in, grader gives a quick look and notices the multiple staples and acetate cover, investigates if Marvel released an acetate cover version by Crain, determines they did not, checks the box for green label with note of "PRINTED ACETATE COVER STAPLED TO BOOK; 2 ADDITIONAL STAPLES", and then continues on with grading.   That the book past the "is it legit" stage to continue grading with a blue label is what baffles me.

Probably spent too much time negotiating  price for all the 10s and 9.9s so they just printed the labels and  sent out the moment  they settled on invoice amount 

I wonder if we will ever get statement from  Clayton Crain on his take on what his commission was for and if he knew he was being dragged into this 

On 8/11/2022 at 6:55 PM, Sigur Ros said:

I understand what you're saying but what about a remarque.. Someone draws on a cover and it cost someone $85 to have it done.  Is Marvel going to be mad?  This happens all the time.  Cons, signings, mail-ins, pre-drawn, etc.  I never hear of a Marvel lawsuit. 

Someone will say "but it's 750", so they must know of the line not to cross.  2? 3? 499?  I don't know that line.  But I don't see this acetate cover being any different from a sketch on the cover.  Neither are approved, neither are licensed. One just made the news because of a couple Whatnot sellers' greedy selfishness being called out by collectors. 

But I do agree.  We may find out what happens, if anything. No one in here knows.  My guess is he'll be asked to stop and will be left with a few hundred variants he is pulling staples out of, or trashing.  But that's just a guess. 

The line is usually understood as 1.   

1 off, never to be repeated and usually for personal use but sketches and remarks fall into that generally speaking 

750 is whole different court 

I'm certain if marvel decided to come at him, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on..   Its just whether they want to 

On 8/11/2022 at 6:32 PM, Skwerl said:

I would agree except the comic (pre-acetate) was a licensed Black Flag exclusive. So it's not a question of copyright infringement, but more a matter of them violating the terms of a licensing agreement by making an unapproved modification. Same as if a toy manufacturer that had a license to make and sell Batman figures started selling versions with a gun instead of the batarang or something. that's not copyright infringement (like it would be if it was just some random toy company with no such license). But it should and hopefully will land them in hot water as a pretty blatant and stupid license violation.

Agree.. He mentioned he hadn't used any copyright stuff in his acetate  print so hes in the clear and  I was watching video   thinking ' but they haven't approved use of their IP in this way surely'. 

On 8/11/2022 at 4:30 PM, Sigur Ros said:

That's not true.  He stated from the beginning he made sure the art didn't infringe on any copyrighted property.  That's not what someone says if they're pretending it's official. 

He probably needs to check where getting his legal advice from. 

Watching that video  made it looked more like he was making assumption he was in the clear  because he didn't use copyrighted IP on his acetate but ignored the fact he then produced 750 of them  stuck it onto 750 comics - whose IP is  owned by a  another publisher-  without approval to  turn a profit. 

if you go to print  making your own product by modifying  someone's IP without permission or license  you are in the firing line for number of potential claims. 

I'm speaking from position of being in a company that had to settle an IP claim for misrepresenting a brand in a marketing image that had less exposure than this book  

On 8/11/2022 at 4:05 PM, davet75 said:

After reading almost 90 pages of furor, debate, and speculation, I think I speak for an entire generation of comic collector when I say, "I had no f'ing idea that anyone still buys modern comics"

I don't know why people chase variants.. Especially over hyped ones with artificial print limits to try and push interest 

There's  a few moderns im  enjoying actually  reading ( *gasp*) 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:21 AM, ExNihilo said:

Seems to me Dylan played the long game.  That mad lad might actually take down CGC.  

Can't throw stones  at the competition once you move into that glass house 

On 8/11/2022 at 8:07 AM, deadleg said:

I hate to say this out loud so I'm putting it in spoiler text. 

 

  Hide contents

Inside job?

 

When join  all the dots  of how  everything went down this has all the optics  of multiple parties through the food chain  conspiring  to take a gamble for quick buck ( including gambling integrity )

They may have got the $ but now game is on to try claw back whatever integrity they can  ( and doing very poorly currently) 

@Lirion. If we are aiming to believe  those grades have been bought with no identification marker.. How many before, and for how long has this practice existed

What value is that for the consumer? 

Why even bother getting a graded comic of there's no way to know if grade was earned or bought? 

100% about the grade.. It doesn't have to have a green label.. It could be a 6.0 blue with actual record of defects or higher score green for those who want to imagine what grade might be of the book wasnt altered from original condition.. But that grade needs to be legit and about the book, and not about who asked for the book to be slabbed  and what they paid